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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary! Today we’ll talk about two new features, a small one and a big one. We then end the diary with two changes to balance. Also as usual, large warning on that all of this is work in progress and might not match the final product!

First up is a small little feature based on the Portuguese Marines and them attacking forts along the coast of Africa and India. Naval Barrage is the same as Artillery Barrage but it requires the cannons of your ships instead of field artillery. It goes by amount of cannons on the coast / 100 to the fort level to determine if you can break open it’s walls. It will cost 50 military points just like the normal Artillery Barrage.

ART NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-7.png


The Portuguese also gets a small bonus by a change we’ll describe in the next feature for the dev diary.


The big feature of today is Flagships. A more bombastic and expensive ship as the pride of your navy. It houses the commanding officers of the fleet who plan the engagement and mission the ships take part in. They are unlocked to any nation that fields a navy of 3 000 sailors, or 15 heavies worth, and it costs 100 ducats to build.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-43.png


A flagship consists of up to 3 modifications on it. Each modification you pick will raise the maintenance cost of your flagship. Some modifications will only buff the flagship itself but some will buff the entire fleet that it’s part of. There are also some modifications that are restricted to specific nations.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-39-19.png


Here is a list as of this writing the current generic modifications we have in the game.
  • Mass Load Cannons: 15% more cannons on flagship
  • Hull Sheathing: +50% Flagship Durability
  • Trade Route Map: +1 Trade Power for all ships in fleet (Yes not only lightships)
  • Command Aftercastle: +5% Morale to Ships in Fleet
  • Improved Crows Nest: +5 Engagement Width
  • Mortars: +1 Blockade Impact on Siege
  • Standardized Signal Book: +1 Movement Speed for every ship in Fleet
Then we also have a few country specific ones.
  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-36-19.png


Next are the balance changes we’ve done. These are not tied with the future paid content but we are experimenting a bit with it to see how it gets received. There’s been a lot of discussion on the current meta with idea groups both on our forums and other platforms. So over the last couple of weeks we’ve been collecting data on what idea sets that are picked by players to get a proper statistical overview on where the meta lies. For clarification the data as follows is per player, per game. This means if two players in the same game picks the same idea groups, it will be counted twice. If you as a player start two seperate games and pick an idea group it will be counted twice. If you pick a group and then unpick it to pick another, it will count both instances of groups. I hope this explains what the data this is based on actually is.

Now one of the things we can see that Exploration ideas are the most popular idea set of all counting for 11% of the picks. Which makes sense, it’s an idea group that opens up a whole area for the player. Lowest on the list is Plutocracy with an abysmal 0.79%, one I’ve seen many point as an interesting and good group, but it’s unpopularity is probably due to its very scarce availability. Even Aristocracy clocks in on 3% which I've seen some refer to as "trash tier" of the military ones.

So the most unpopular idea groups are the ones we focused the most on, minus plutocracy. They are as follows.
  • Maritime ideas: 1.41%
  • Naval ideas: 1.09%
  • Spy ideas: 1.07%
upload_2018-10-30_9-13-42.png


We also focused on some pet peeves of ours like influence ideas which was the third most picked one, religious, expansion, humanist, administrative, diplomatic and innovativeness ideas. I’ll attach the change log to the end of this dev diary but I’ll try to put some more descriptive text to some of the more important changes.

So first I want to cover the changes to Espionage. Espionage gained the -20% AE Impact from Influence ideas to replace it’s -10% Liberty Desire. In return Influence gained -15% Subject Liberty desire to replace their 25% Heir Chance. Though Espionage gained another little fun feature.

On the 5th idea for Espionage you now get, besides just cheaper fabrication cost, the ability to fabricate claims on behalf of your vassals. This works for any type of vassal except tributaries. Important to note is that the claim will belong to the vassal and not you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-13-52.png


Another big change is to the colonisation game, We’ve thrown things around a little. The first two ideas of Exploration have been swapped and Exploration have been made to be a bit slower in colonization. Instead we have have buffed Expansion ideas to be the idea group that speeds up your colonisation. It gives you two colonist and way faster speed in getting it done. It’s finisher have been changed to give +5 Max States as well.

An experimental thing we are testing out now and seeing how it plays out as well is to put DLC locked values into the idea groups. People have for a long time asked for Innovativeness Gain in Innovative Ideas for instance. Now it got 50% of that, which converts into 5% Idea Cost if you don’t own Rule Britannia. A similar thing is -20% cheaper CoT Upgrade in Expansion ideas and -25% Expel Minority Cost for Exploration ideas.

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-3.png

Which monthly cost for a 20 development province can be visualized like this with all base and factors being set to 1 and no modifier to the missionary maintenance cost.

It does mean while converting the 100% autonomy territories of 3 dev will cost extra, it won’t be that super more expensive. But if you for instance have Samarkand for some reason try to convert it while it not being cored and states, it’s going to cost you a fair deal.

Following with this change, since missionaries are now actually gonna ask you to pay up, we’ve also changed a bit on how the maintenance slider works for them. Previously you could avoid paying any cost because you just needed to have enough strength on it’s own as the slider only affected the base values of missionary strength. Second if you did lower the slider and could make progress before, but without those 2% you will get a hard stop on any progress to the conversion. Now instead the slider decides how much of your conversion speed is actually generated, so if you are making progress on the conversion and lower it, it will instead lower the amount of progress you get.

So if you are paying dough, you have enough strength, it will always generate some progress for you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-29.png


Also with this change it means I've reworked the missionary tooltip also a bit, since missionaries can cost differently depending on where you can see them, it will list all your active missionaries and their cost.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-34.png


And here's a collection of the balance changes we've covered today.
- Gamebalance: Missionary maintenance cost now costs development^(1+local autonomy)
- Gamebalance: Missionary Maintenance no longer only operates on the base strength but instead it is a percentage of how much progress you get. So now as long as you pay money, you will always get some progress.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 3rd idea buffed to 20 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 4th idea switched out to be -50% Rival Border Fort Maintenance & -20% CoT Upgrade Cost(Dharma).
- Gamebalance: Expansion 6th idea switched out to be 1 colonist & 5% Settler Chance
- Gamebalance: Expansion Finisher now gives +5 States instead of Maintenance
- Gamebalance: Innovative 2nd idea switched out to be 50% Innovativeness Gain(Rule Britannia) or -5% Idea Cost(Non-Rule Britannia).
- Gamebalance: Innovative 5th idea switched out to be 25% Institution Spread.
- Gamebalance: Religious 4th idea buffed to have 2 Tolerance of Own Faith.
- Gamebalance: Religious 6th idea switched out to be -50% Missionary Maintenance Cost.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 3rd idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heretic.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 7th idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heathens.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 1st idea switched to 100% Naval Tradition from Trade.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 6th idea switched to +1 Free Leader and -25% Admiral Cost
- Gamebalance: Maritime 7th idea buffed to give +25% Privateering efficiency.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 1st idea and 2nd idea switched places.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 4th idea nerfed to 10 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 5th idea tariffs nerfed to 10% and given 20% Envoy Travel Time.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 6th idea switched to give -25% Expel Minority Cost or 5% Settler Chance without DLC.
- Gamebalance: Diplomatic 3rd idea switched out for 0.5 Prestige
- Gamebalance: Influence 2nd idea switched out for -15% subject liberty desire
- Gamebalance: Influence 4th idea switched out for +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Influence 6th idea lost +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.
- Gamebalance: Quantity 5th idea switched out for 33% Supply Limit Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Naval 4th idea switched out for 1 Yearly Naval Tradition.

That’s everything for today! Next week will be @neondt who will be going through a bunch of the country specific flavor for missions.
 
Last edited:

grommile

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Can you give us more ways to get heathen tolerance?
Trade Company provinces generally don't produce rebels once Separatism expires.

What's that, you say? Your capital is in Asia and your religion has weak conversion capabilities? Sorry, you're trying to have non-approved fun in Compania Commercialis 1.28.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Nah. You have to get rebels, it's how you should play the game.

That rebels are boring to deal with and almost never actually a significant threat is beside the point. You have to get rebels.

Proposed conversion cost scaling makes fighting rebels look attractive costwise, probably not a good place to be in a purported balance patch.
 

Stepkick

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so best military in game dont get elite regiments? prussia is army with a state indeed. meanwhile ottomans gets janisarries *lol* OP as hell
do you see what I mean? no?
well... their flag ships gonna be op no matter what even without bonuses since their navy is allready op. NO NEED TO MAKE IT imposible to defeat. (wich allready is)

Well I agree with you on that rather. I think Prussia should get life guard unit or something special, perhaps expensive to maintain but boosts militarization. Prussian mechanics are pretty worthless.
 

TheDungen

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The


The English/British were the preeminent naval power by the mid 18th century. They did not have the complete dominance of the post-Napoleonic period, but they far surpassed any other lone power. In 1756 (the Seven Years’ War) they had roughly twice times the warships France had and the British Navy was the decisive force in the colonial theatres of the Seven Years’ War, both directly in battle and supporting armies as well as preventing the French from reinforcing.

They were also a close match for the Dutch in the mid to late 17th century.

The English/British were definitely a major naval power for the second half of the timeline of EUIV. But in game terms, they already have a pile of naval bonuses and they don’t need more.
But the problem as always with england is that they get far to much of what they would become right there in 1444. Meanwhile countries like Prussia actually have to do things to get their bad ass stuff. At least some of it.
 

Old Tercio

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So the best navy in the EUIV late-midgame + doesn't get any flagship bonus? Britannia rule the waves indeed. Meanwhile Sweden gets bonus +100 more cannons on Flagship *lol* OP as hell.
There fixed it for ya...
 

TheDungen

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ohhhh my god you literally made me regret giving that example O_O
Sweden could be moved to an elite unit system though, the caroleans were very much a special corps that only lasted for a short time, but only if some of their general bonuses get's reduced.
 

Old Tercio

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Less2

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I have a hard time contemplating a universe in which EU4 players take Administrative, Diplomatic and Humanist less than Expansion. Are we sure this data is accurate? Is it possible that something like tag switching to an AI and back counts those AIs as player-chosen idea groups?
 

pizzapicante27

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Modern Siege Weapons begs to differ.

Also, Advisor costs being cut down a whole fourth is pretty sweet, especially for monarchies with crappy rulers who want to promote and promote and promote....

The inflation cost boost is pretty dumb, though.


It doesnt scale well enough to justify the mana spending, and its not so significant or rare enough that you cant get it cheaper with other modifiers, as it is, its just a waste of mana.
 

sr999

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Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary!

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

Without wishing to object in any way... @DDRJake in an earlier dev diary said that the Religious finisher is / has been changed specifically to permit conversion of un-cored territory provinces. So, can you please clarify:
  • what's happened to that?
  • either way, how does that concept affect the new design and vice versa?
 

jdrou

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But the problem as always with england is that they get far to much of what they would become right there in 1444. Meanwhile countries like Prussia actually have to do things to get their bad ass stuff. At least some of it.
Well that issue goes back even before EU4 was released. When they discussed national ideas in the dev diary people were asking why countries were getting bonuses for things that didn't really apply to that country until late in the game period.
 

Cancerofthehead

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I have a hard time contemplating a universe in which EU4 players take Administrative, Diplomatic and Humanist less than Expansion. Are we sure this data is accurate? Is it possible that something like tag switching to an AI and back counts those AIs as player-chosen idea groups?

Makes sense to me. Probably not for the people likely to spend much time on the forum, but to those with less in depth knowledge, Expansion looks like a great choice. The immediate benefits are much more obvious, getting a merchant and a colonist you can immediately do something with feels great. In comparison to Administrative, if you aren’t going merc heavy, three of Admin’s ideas are basically worthless and the interest isn’t valuable when most people will try to avoid any loans. The consistently best parts (core creation, advisor, and states) are also ones likely to be heavily underestimated as core creation is usually pretty cheap for each province and only becomes great in aggregate, a possible advisor doesn’t give you anything obvious just better odds of getting a decent one, and states are just underestimated in general (and you may need a fair chunk of conquest to use them).
 

Cancerofthehead

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But the problem as always with england is that they get far to much of what they would become right there in 1444. Meanwhile countries like Prussia actually have to do things to get their bad ass stuff. At least some of it.

Well, if Great Britain has it, it won’t be available in 1444 and having to for Great Britain is doing something. If you want England to have it you could lock it behind the national ideas to delay it.

As I said, though, I think they got enough special navy buffs already (naval policy and national ideas), not having this isn't a big deal.
 

TheDungen

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Well, if Great Britain has it, it won’t be available in 1444 and having to for Great Britain is doing something. If you want England to have it you could lock it behind the national ideas to delay it.

As I said, though, I think they got enough special navy buffs already (naval policy and national ideas), not having this isn't a big deal.
National ideas are unlocked very quickly, it's barely a speedbump. And adding more naval power to Britain is not what I am talking about anyway I am talking about taking some of what they have and move it to the late game.
 

iNFERnozz

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Is there any consequences to losing a flagship in battle or from attrition?

I was hoping there would be some penalties in terms of PP, prestige, unrest etc. This reminds me of the HoI3 "Pride of the Fleet" modifier.