EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

[Thrudgelmir2333]

Also it would be a nice flavor touch if at least Flagships could be named by player. The possibility to name every ship would be very immersive.

You can already name every individual ship, I believe.

 

[orania]

Kinda weird that Netherlands and even Sweden get unique modifications for their flagships, and England/GB doesn't

In the 1600s the size of the Dutch merchant fleet exceeded the combined fleets of England, France, Spain, Portugal, and Germany. There is a whole rediit thread with a discussion on this point. https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...e_1600s_the_size_of_the_dutch_merchant_fleet/

From the 17th Century the naval super powers should be GB, the Netherlands.
after that France, Spain and Portugal.

 

[El_Cid_]

@Groogy are centres of reformation being nerfed in line with the change to conversions by missionaries?

I just have this horrible feeling this balance change could wreck Germany

 

[TheArchduke]

Hmm, I would toss out espionage ideas alltogether. I think everyone is trying to make them worth it since forever.

It feels forced all the time.

 

[Xetfield]

You can already name every individual ship, I believe.

I didn’t found this in the wiki, will try at home.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

I didn’t found this in the wiki, will try at home.

Im pretty sure you should, at least, cause at one point the game starts naming ships after provinces you own and eventually numbers.

 

[Thrudgelmir2333]

In the 1600s the size of the Dutch merchant fleet exceeded the combined fleets of England, France, Spain, Portugal, and Germany. There is a whole rediit thread with a discussion on this point. https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...e_1600s_the_size_of_the_dutch_merchant_fleet/

From the 17th Century the naval super powers should be GB, the Netherlands.
after that France, Spain and Portugal.

Just to add in more endgame info on this, not disagreeing with anything.

 

[TheDungen]

I like Trade, but the usual criticism is that it is a "win more" group, which I guess comes down to the opportunity cost. If you can afford to spend an idea group on something that doesn't directly improve your fighting or growing wide ability, doesn't it mean that you are already in a pretty good position?

I'd say quite the contrary trade is a first pick when you pick it, when you're a minor and got to get a positive economy running.

Will the Adler von Lubeck decision create a flagship?

Not sure that decision/mission is in the game any more.

In the 1600s the size of the Dutch merchant fleet exceeded the combined fleets of England, France, Spain, Portugal, and Germany. There is a whole rediit thread with a discussion on this point. https://www.google.nl/amp/s/amp.red...e_1600s_the_size_of_the_dutch_merchant_fleet/

From the 17th Century the naval super powers should be GB, the Netherlands.
after that France, Spain and Portugal.

I would say the Uk shouldn't really be a top tier naval power until after the civil war, and not the top tier naval power until the last 20 years of the game.
Early game it should be Spain and Portugal (and the ottomans and Venice), then Portugal falls under a union with Spain whilst the Dutch rise as a contender, and then later the british also rise (in many ways learning from the rise of the dutch) as well as the french who aren't a weak naval power before the napoleonic wars.
Denmark is also strong but it's hard to say how strong since they aren't in direct competition with any other power. Sweden is a reasonable naval power, their Skärgårdsflotta (Archipelago navy) did so well against the Russians it kept Gustav III's Russian war from being decided in favour of Russia and it ended with a draw, and despite Denmark being such a powerful naval power they never really managed to leverage it to threaten Sweden at a meaningful level after the Scanian war of 1675.
Oh and the united states of course who's heavy frigates did incredibly well against British but I may be thinking of the war of 1812 rather than the independence war here, american history was never my strongest suite.

Anyway the point is the British navy is an anachronistic meme, just like the endless numbers of the Russians. And quite frankly the British naval dominance is partly because how well they did on that field in the Napoleonic war, leaving pretty much every other navy devastated, and that doesn't so much come down to some inherent superiority as it came down to that Nelson changed the strategies and tactics used in naval warfare and just like with El grand capitain, Maurice of nassau and Napoleon on land it allowed a power to gain an overwhelming advantage for a time.
Really half of Britains naval supremacy should be in an event which can fire after 1750 which gives them those bonuses as a modifier (Early Nelsonian Naval warfare) until end of game. There's a reason that the first naval tech in Vic is called Post-Nelsonian Thought.

 

[Blackwhitecavias]

View attachment 414319

Just to add in more endgame info on this, not disagreeing with anything.

Therse figures are however really only during the end of the scope of the game, earlier it was different

 

[TheDungen]

That's very.... Stellaris.

So it's probably too smart for EU4

I don't know Eu4 has some city founding misisons already, Dehli has one to form Agra, the mughals have one too. Nogorod one to form Arkhangels and so on. Sweden should get those kind of missions for forming Karlskrona and Gothenburg. And the Karlskrona one could easily be down the line from build the Vasa, so you get some reward eventually for not actually getting your super impressive flag ship.

View attachment 414319

Just to add in more endgame info on this, not disagreeing with anything.

Those are all halfway though the Napoleonic war. All those numbers are fleets severely depleted by war, Britain less so since they had that naval genius Nelson who did very well in these wars (Trafalgar was in 1805, and the Trafalgar campaign before that). They don't represent in any way the naval might of these countries before the breakout of the Napoleonic wars.

When those numbers were true they had already been at war more or less constantly for 16 years.

 

[Siggerad]

1. Slow colonization? C´mon guys this is your chance to make Colonization fun and rewarding, not a pain and wait the grass grown mechanic. Plus exploration nerf is just crazy, you are forcing take expansion and exploration ideas, meanwhile the close enemy France is taking quality and economic/trade ideas.

2. Why colonization mechanic is so generic? Catholic nations evangelize and integrated people in the "colonies", protestant nations dont integrated and kill the natives (more like new territories), there is 2 different visions or goals in the expansions; for example elite aztecs were counts, lords, etc and part of the Spanish Empire (search the Moctezuma descendants), you never see a a guy from Lahore be part of the English court, right?

3. Only a few new provinces in Iberia (free patch) and some changes in missions? hmm looks like a full free patch; sorry but i dont see the worth in buying the DLC yet. ( yes flag ships sound good but my army have artillery so...)(ideas changes are not new content, i hope you dont try to make the changes a selling point)

 

[Martynios]

View attachment 414319

Just to add in more endgame info on this, not disagreeing with anything.

Note that at this point the Netherlands were a Napoleonic client state.

 

[Bizkit II]

View attachment 414319

Just to add in more endgame info on this, not disagreeing with anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_line_of_Spain

 

[Martynios]

What I'm guessing is that this will likely be useful against Lvl8 Fortresses where you usually have to bring a TON of expensive artillery.... but it's being presented to us in the optic of the Portuguese and their African conquests, with the strongest forts being lvl3, only....

So..... what the heck, EU4? Are these just features for the sake of features?

BTW, could people with a longer experience in the forum tell me if previous DLCs have been just as weirdly lackluster at first? Or is it just this one?

It's been like this from Third Rome onwards.

 

[MuscovyRunner]

That would actually be a good idea Naval or Maritime. Something like -50% ship upgrade cost.

I agree! Even with the changes in the upcoming patch Naval and Maritime ideas are still barely useful. But an idea that would reduce ship upgrade cost would make me consider chosing that Group. I think it's quite hard to wield a powerful navy.

 

[Last_Crusader]

I'm really looking forward to play with the new mechanics!

 

[Tha Pink Guy]

I honestly don't understand these changes, I get most people that pick expansionist ideas is because they picked exploration ideas but you guys have turned expansionist ideas into a better exploration ideas with some administrative and Trade idea's qualities. Expansionist is meant to be a catch all term to increase the size of your country by any means, why do you need to make exploration kinda trash in comparison now?

Unless I want the policies associated with exploration then why would I pick exploration when I only use it for: colonising first and colonising quickly. Now it looks like a pick up and drop idea group more than ever. You honestly only need the first idea of exploration (maybe 3rd as well) then when you can see what you need to see, drop it, pick up expansion ideas and wait for Discovery spread?

I will admit I haven't read the last dev diary of expel minorities "cost" whatever that is so I highly doubt 25% will make up for the fact you've lost a colonist.

The only reason I even bother finishing exploration ideas is for the second colonist and because of my brain being trained to see the light bulb and click it. Another thing: You get a merchant as well as the 2 colonist which makes it even more powerful if you want to control trade.

This is honestly a bad idea for both casual colonisers and kinda op for the power gamers whom only care about being able to see something they know what is there. Maybe it's a nerf to power gamers because you have to float an admin idea group instead of a diplo idea group?

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm comparing them 1 to 1 I know if you are a coloniser you get both anyway but it just seems like they are cutting the arm off of exploration to give expansionist two legs to stand on.

 

[SanguiniusStyle]

Edirne rush for Consulate of the sea is coming.

Fear me, ottomans

 

[Cancerofthehead]

The

I don't know Eu4 has some city founding misisons already, Dehli has one to form Agra, the mughals have one too. Nogorod one to form Arkhangels and so on. Sweden should get those kind of missions for forming Karlskrona and Gothenburg. And the Karlskrona one could easily be down the line from build the Vasa, so you get some reward eventually for not actually getting your super impressive flag ship.



Those are all halfway though the Napoleonic war. All those numbers are fleets severely depleted by war, Britain less so since they had that naval genius Nelson who did very well in these wars (Trafalgar was in 1805, and the Trafalgar campaign before that). They don't represent in any way the naval might of these countries before the breakout of the Napoleonic wars.

When those numbers were true they had already been at war more or less constantly for 16 years.

The English/British were the preeminent naval power by the mid 18th century. They did not have the complete dominance of the post-Napoleonic period, but they far surpassed any other lone power. In 1756 (the Seven Years’ War) they had roughly twice times the warships France had and the British Navy was the decisive force in the colonial theatres of the Seven Years’ War, both directly in battle and supporting armies as well as preventing the French from reinforcing.

They were also a close match for the Dutch in the mid to late 17th century.

The English/British were definitely a major naval power for the second half of the timeline of EUIV. But in game terms, they already have a pile of naval bonuses and they don’t need more.

 

[raikaria]

The biggest problem is Expansion is you can't explore to expand anywhere in the first place. As long as that remains the case, Expansion will always be picked less than Exploration.

Still; it is a good step.

Also loving how Sweden, a country that was never really a naval power, gets a Flagship unique buff but Great Britain, the nation which rules the waves; doesn't.