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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary! Today we’ll talk about two new features, a small one and a big one. We then end the diary with two changes to balance. Also as usual, large warning on that all of this is work in progress and might not match the final product!

First up is a small little feature based on the Portuguese Marines and them attacking forts along the coast of Africa and India. Naval Barrage is the same as Artillery Barrage but it requires the cannons of your ships instead of field artillery. It goes by amount of cannons on the coast / 100 to the fort level to determine if you can break open it’s walls. It will cost 50 military points just like the normal Artillery Barrage.

ART NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-7.png


The Portuguese also gets a small bonus by a change we’ll describe in the next feature for the dev diary.


The big feature of today is Flagships. A more bombastic and expensive ship as the pride of your navy. It houses the commanding officers of the fleet who plan the engagement and mission the ships take part in. They are unlocked to any nation that fields a navy of 3 000 sailors, or 15 heavies worth, and it costs 100 ducats to build.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-43.png


A flagship consists of up to 3 modifications on it. Each modification you pick will raise the maintenance cost of your flagship. Some modifications will only buff the flagship itself but some will buff the entire fleet that it’s part of. There are also some modifications that are restricted to specific nations.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-39-19.png


Here is a list as of this writing the current generic modifications we have in the game.
  • Mass Load Cannons: 15% more cannons on flagship
  • Hull Sheathing: +50% Flagship Durability
  • Trade Route Map: +1 Trade Power for all ships in fleet (Yes not only lightships)
  • Command Aftercastle: +5% Morale to Ships in Fleet
  • Improved Crows Nest: +5 Engagement Width
  • Mortars: +1 Blockade Impact on Siege
  • Standardized Signal Book: +1 Movement Speed for every ship in Fleet
Then we also have a few country specific ones.
  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-36-19.png


Next are the balance changes we’ve done. These are not tied with the future paid content but we are experimenting a bit with it to see how it gets received. There’s been a lot of discussion on the current meta with idea groups both on our forums and other platforms. So over the last couple of weeks we’ve been collecting data on what idea sets that are picked by players to get a proper statistical overview on where the meta lies. For clarification the data as follows is per player, per game. This means if two players in the same game picks the same idea groups, it will be counted twice. If you as a player start two seperate games and pick an idea group it will be counted twice. If you pick a group and then unpick it to pick another, it will count both instances of groups. I hope this explains what the data this is based on actually is.

Now one of the things we can see that Exploration ideas are the most popular idea set of all counting for 11% of the picks. Which makes sense, it’s an idea group that opens up a whole area for the player. Lowest on the list is Plutocracy with an abysmal 0.79%, one I’ve seen many point as an interesting and good group, but it’s unpopularity is probably due to its very scarce availability. Even Aristocracy clocks in on 3% which I've seen some refer to as "trash tier" of the military ones.

So the most unpopular idea groups are the ones we focused the most on, minus plutocracy. They are as follows.
  • Maritime ideas: 1.41%
  • Naval ideas: 1.09%
  • Spy ideas: 1.07%
upload_2018-10-30_9-13-42.png


We also focused on some pet peeves of ours like influence ideas which was the third most picked one, religious, expansion, humanist, administrative, diplomatic and innovativeness ideas. I’ll attach the change log to the end of this dev diary but I’ll try to put some more descriptive text to some of the more important changes.

So first I want to cover the changes to Espionage. Espionage gained the -20% AE Impact from Influence ideas to replace it’s -10% Liberty Desire. In return Influence gained -15% Subject Liberty desire to replace their 25% Heir Chance. Though Espionage gained another little fun feature.

On the 5th idea for Espionage you now get, besides just cheaper fabrication cost, the ability to fabricate claims on behalf of your vassals. This works for any type of vassal except tributaries. Important to note is that the claim will belong to the vassal and not you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-13-52.png


Another big change is to the colonisation game, We’ve thrown things around a little. The first two ideas of Exploration have been swapped and Exploration have been made to be a bit slower in colonization. Instead we have have buffed Expansion ideas to be the idea group that speeds up your colonisation. It gives you two colonist and way faster speed in getting it done. It’s finisher have been changed to give +5 Max States as well.

An experimental thing we are testing out now and seeing how it plays out as well is to put DLC locked values into the idea groups. People have for a long time asked for Innovativeness Gain in Innovative Ideas for instance. Now it got 50% of that, which converts into 5% Idea Cost if you don’t own Rule Britannia. A similar thing is -20% cheaper CoT Upgrade in Expansion ideas and -25% Expel Minority Cost for Exploration ideas.

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-3.png

Which monthly cost for a 20 development province can be visualized like this with all base and factors being set to 1 and no modifier to the missionary maintenance cost.

It does mean while converting the 100% autonomy territories of 3 dev will cost extra, it won’t be that super more expensive. But if you for instance have Samarkand for some reason try to convert it while it not being cored and states, it’s going to cost you a fair deal.

Following with this change, since missionaries are now actually gonna ask you to pay up, we’ve also changed a bit on how the maintenance slider works for them. Previously you could avoid paying any cost because you just needed to have enough strength on it’s own as the slider only affected the base values of missionary strength. Second if you did lower the slider and could make progress before, but without those 2% you will get a hard stop on any progress to the conversion. Now instead the slider decides how much of your conversion speed is actually generated, so if you are making progress on the conversion and lower it, it will instead lower the amount of progress you get.

So if you are paying dough, you have enough strength, it will always generate some progress for you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-29.png


Also with this change it means I've reworked the missionary tooltip also a bit, since missionaries can cost differently depending on where you can see them, it will list all your active missionaries and their cost.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-34.png


And here's a collection of the balance changes we've covered today.
- Gamebalance: Missionary maintenance cost now costs development^(1+local autonomy)
- Gamebalance: Missionary Maintenance no longer only operates on the base strength but instead it is a percentage of how much progress you get. So now as long as you pay money, you will always get some progress.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 3rd idea buffed to 20 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 4th idea switched out to be -50% Rival Border Fort Maintenance & -20% CoT Upgrade Cost(Dharma).
- Gamebalance: Expansion 6th idea switched out to be 1 colonist & 5% Settler Chance
- Gamebalance: Expansion Finisher now gives +5 States instead of Maintenance
- Gamebalance: Innovative 2nd idea switched out to be 50% Innovativeness Gain(Rule Britannia) or -5% Idea Cost(Non-Rule Britannia).
- Gamebalance: Innovative 5th idea switched out to be 25% Institution Spread.
- Gamebalance: Religious 4th idea buffed to have 2 Tolerance of Own Faith.
- Gamebalance: Religious 6th idea switched out to be -50% Missionary Maintenance Cost.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 3rd idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heretic.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 7th idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heathens.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 1st idea switched to 100% Naval Tradition from Trade.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 6th idea switched to +1 Free Leader and -25% Admiral Cost
- Gamebalance: Maritime 7th idea buffed to give +25% Privateering efficiency.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 1st idea and 2nd idea switched places.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 4th idea nerfed to 10 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 5th idea tariffs nerfed to 10% and given 20% Envoy Travel Time.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 6th idea switched to give -25% Expel Minority Cost or 5% Settler Chance without DLC.
- Gamebalance: Diplomatic 3rd idea switched out for 0.5 Prestige
- Gamebalance: Influence 2nd idea switched out for -15% subject liberty desire
- Gamebalance: Influence 4th idea switched out for +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Influence 6th idea lost +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.
- Gamebalance: Quantity 5th idea switched out for 33% Supply Limit Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Naval 4th idea switched out for 1 Yearly Naval Tradition.

That’s everything for today! Next week will be @neondt who will be going through a bunch of the country specific flavor for missions.
 
Last edited:

lolada

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It would be nice if devs could provide some reasons for the balance changes instead of forcing players to guess. I still have no idea why conversion needs to be changed so much and why Influence has to be nerfed to the ground.
Agreed. Explanations are missing, whats their goal? Balance is not good enough..

Looks like they wanted Influence to focus on vassals completely - which is fine. But moving that -20 AE to Espionage is tough change.. especially since they didnt improve Espionage enough. Now we have one reason to pick Espionage... but group really needs some more extras. Influence itself lots some appeal, but its still good group.

Logic behind Maritime is probably to be peacetime naval group - with trade focus and Naval tradition. But fails due to weak bonuses.
Presumaly Naval is then good for naval combat, when Maritime is out of contention.. but Quality still ruins it with its naval bonuses.

Expansion is now good group for mass colonization after picking Exploration. Fine well - thats miles better now. Good change.

Religious/Humanist changes looks good. There was maybe no need to change again conversion to everything but fine if they want that.. thats ok.
 

Keioel

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Are the changes to colonization going to be a buff or a nerf to Native Americans? I increasingly feel like the only person who plays in the Western Hemisphere lol
 

TheMeInTeam

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Are the changes to colonization going to be a buff or a nerf to Native Americans? I increasingly feel like the only person who plays in the Western Hemisphere lol

Without an AI overhaul or dumping the requirement of a euroborder after finishing reforms you're still screwed unfortunately. Western Hemisphere wasn't always degenerate wait-gameplay, but it's been that way a long time :(.

Agreed. Explanations are missing, whats their goal? Balance is not good enough..

Looks like they wanted Influence to focus on vassals completely - which is fine. But moving that -20 AE to Espionage is tough change.. especially since they didnt improve Espionage enough. Now we have one reason to pick Espionage... but group really needs some more extras. Influence itself lots some appeal, but its still good group.

Logic behind Maritime is probably to be peacetime naval group - with trade focus and Naval tradition. But fails due to weak bonuses.
Presumaly Naval is then good for naval combat, when Maritime is out of contention.. but Quality still ruins it with its naval bonuses.

Expansion is now good group for mass colonization after picking Exploration. Fine well - thats miles better now. Good change.

Religious/Humanist changes looks good. There was maybe no need to change again conversion to everything but fine if they want that.. thats ok.

These changes aren't reasonably described as balance changes. Placed alongside presented data, they are not justifiable from a balance perspective.

  • Religious and humanist are 9th and 11th by pick rate out of 20 respectively. These are presented to us as average groups, and they're getting hammered. Why? The worst and best religions will be further from each other than before.
  • Naval will consistently beat quality 1:1 at sea just like now, but that's not enough to justify picking it. I doubt the needle moves much on that one.
  • Speaking of quality, it is one of several top 5 groups that went untouched, same with some very low pickrate groups like aristocratic and plutocratic.
  • I actually consider espionage substantially improved, though would still like to see claims bordering claims option or area claims. If you can output enough claims DIP savings approach the -50% unjustified demands in influence and this one gives you an extra diplomat to actually make those claims.
 

amAzrael

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I like the flagship idea, would be nice if the amount you could have would be based off your force limit while maybe only allowing one per fleet. The maritime changes, however, are straight nerfs. +2 maneuver is maritime's best idea for combat and naval tradition can be somewhat difficult to come by when you are done exploring. For espionage, I would probably pick it a lot more if it unlocked some of the covert actions early, like infiltrate administration.
 

Afonso de Albuquerque

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I like the flagship idea, would be nice if the amount you could have would be based off your force limit while maybe only allowing one per fleet. The maritime changes, however, are straight nerfs. +2 maneuver is maritime's best idea for combat and naval tradition can be somewhat difficult to come by when you are done exploring. For espionage, I would probably pick it a lot more if it unlocked some of the covert actions early, like infiltrate administration.
It is confirmed that the flagships are only one per country, apparently it would be imbalanced to allow for more of them (given how powerful the bonuses seem to be, I would agree).
 

Ooohu

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Honestly, you need to release two separate lines of the game with balance for SP & balance for MP. Because innovative is a top 3 idea in MP and influence is bottom tier, while according to the numbers in SP the inverse is true. In MP the meta for ideas is Quality, Economic, Offensive, Innovative, Defensive, Trade/Maritime, Quantity, Espionage in that order give or take. Influence, Diplomatic, Admin, Humanist, and all are completely ignored. Yet for SP these are all considered good ideas. But many people here are oblivious as to what makes Innovative good beyond the 20% inf ca policy, (hint: adviser event frequency), or the martime-innovative policy making maritime on par, if not better then naval ideas or the -0.05 War Exhaustion being top tier for MP.

More then anything else I think you guys need to recognize a difference in the metas and balance accordingly, because I'm a dedicated MP guy and most of these balance changes are silly to me and show a lack of understanding as to why people take what they do. If you were to take numbers based solely on MP you would see a far different scale then what's presented in the OP.
 

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I'm amazed too see that many that take trash idea groups like trade and economics.

What they do is that they exchange MP into gold. But by the end of the game you got plenty of gold anyway.

Looks like its more a lot of inexperienced players who play a Colonisational game and take Exploration/Expansion/Trade/Economics and play a trade game.

Personally I find that I very seldom take 3 of these idea groups.

Also the nerf of Influence means that its just one good Diplomatic idea group and that Diplomacy.


Now when will we get a military group called Military ? Administrative and Diplomatic idea groups have theirs.

Trade is a pretty good choice for nations that either don't have a clear sea route to India or are stuck somewhere in Asia far from Oceania (or find the "move capital to island in Oceania to TC India/Asia" strategy too cheesy to contemplate) Russia and Poland, for example, can use it to get enough merchants to direct trade from India via the steppes to their starting nodes, rather than having to juggle AE from conquering towards Lubeck and guiding it through the Americas.
 

Afonso de Albuquerque

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Trade is a pretty good choice for nations that either don't have a clear sea route to India or are stuck somewhere in Asia. Russia and Poland, for example, can use it to get enough merchants to direct trade from India via the steppes to their starting nodes, rather than having to juggle AE from conquering towards Lubeck and guiding it through the Americas.
I like Trade, but the usual criticism is that it is a "win more" group, which I guess comes down to the opportunity cost. If you can afford to spend an idea group on something that doesn't directly improve your fighting or growing wide ability, doesn't it mean that you are already in a pretty good position?
 

bigaristotel

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It would be nice if devs could provide some reasons for the balance changes instead of forcing players to guess. I still have no idea why conversion needs to be changed so much and why Influence has to be nerfed to the ground.

Moderators deleted my post so I'll say it again.
I think they know that they made a huge mistake with all religious thing during dharma. And now they want to correct things but do not want to admit that all warked nice pre-dharma. Stubborn approach that leads to game being worse.
As for ideas. Many of the posters stated already that you can improve ideas set without running another into the ground. I dont think that its that hard of a concept
 

Leon12

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Aw, I really like the way the current conversion system works, these changes make me sad. They'll make picking religious ideas pointless again - being able to convert territories only as a religious-idea-specialising nation was thematic and cool. Ducats are really not a meaningful deterrent since money becomes more-or-less irrelevant by around ~1600 for most players anyway.
 

Evanescent

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Looking at how you got the flagship modification stuff into the game, I'm thinking why you can't do that for ALL the ships. After all, an English-built galleon and a French-built galleon was not built the same way. There were definitely differences and defining features among different nations' ships, with their strengths and weaknesses. So why not go full Stellaris on this one and allow nations to customise the template for every ship type that they build?

So for example, one could choose to build a strong navy of fighting ships which are bristling with cannons and thick hulls, at the cost of maintenance and maneuverability(speed), or build a lighter navy that is more suited to patrolling the waters and generate trade income(more trade power), at the cost of being less useful in a naval confrontation... and so on.

Then you could add country- or culture- specific options to the templates, further diversifying the naval roster like the army, with their respective strengths and weaknesses over time.
 

b0b33r

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  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
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  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
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  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
Why?
The last time Swedes overloaded flagship with cannons, it literally flipped over and sank right outside of the port....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)
 

grommile

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The last time Swedes overloaded flagship with cannons, it literally flipped over and sank right outside of the port....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)
From reading the article, I can safely say that you shouldn't blame the guns; it would have been dangerously unstable completely unarmed :)

The Vasa wasn't wide enough, was taller than it needed to be, and had some of its major structural elements in the upper decks overengineered, making them too heavy. (Oh, and the construction was done using two different definitions of the foot, so it wasn't even symmetrical.)
 

CR0N0S LXIII

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Spain should get its own Naval Doctrine too and Great Britain its own flagship bonuses too...

PD: The Swedish bonus should be 99999 extra cannons, not only 100.

The swedish bonus should be instantly spamming 10 in a hexacontagon (yep, that's a number) cannons on every province in the world, instantly winning the game and then wait until 21st century to change tag to "Ikea".

No but seriously Paradox, bonus because of a ship that got sink by its own weight? Is this serious?
 

mojomikey123

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I have had an idea floating around in my mind, might we see Portugese Feitorias? The way the Portuguese dominated trade was not large scale colonization, but small trade outposts... Just a suggestion!
 

MateuszNH

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Maybe make barrage cost 25 points and add some impact on battles in coastal provinces(or alteast some stronger impact on enemy provinces than blocade is doing now)? That would be cool, and make naval focused countries more viable pick
 

Kane_hun

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I want to know how many ducats per month will it cost to convert 45 dev Constantinople
Perhaps the easier way will be to simply colonise a province and expel them there if you own the DLC.
 

Thrudgelmir2333

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Maybe make barrage cost 25 points and add some impact on battles in coastal provinces(or alteast some stronger impact on enemy provinces than blocade is doing now)? That would be cool, and make naval focused countries more viable pick

What I'm guessing is that this will likely be useful against Lvl8 Fortresses where you usually have to bring a TON of expensive artillery.... but it's being presented to us in the optic of the Portuguese and their African conquests, with the strongest forts being lvl3, only....

So..... what the heck, EU4? Are these just features for the sake of features?

BTW, could people with a longer experience in the forum tell me if previous DLCs have been just as weirdly lackluster at first? Or is it just this one?