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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary! Today we’ll talk about two new features, a small one and a big one. We then end the diary with two changes to balance. Also as usual, large warning on that all of this is work in progress and might not match the final product!

First up is a small little feature based on the Portuguese Marines and them attacking forts along the coast of Africa and India. Naval Barrage is the same as Artillery Barrage but it requires the cannons of your ships instead of field artillery. It goes by amount of cannons on the coast / 100 to the fort level to determine if you can break open it’s walls. It will cost 50 military points just like the normal Artillery Barrage.

ART NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-7.png


The Portuguese also gets a small bonus by a change we’ll describe in the next feature for the dev diary.


The big feature of today is Flagships. A more bombastic and expensive ship as the pride of your navy. It houses the commanding officers of the fleet who plan the engagement and mission the ships take part in. They are unlocked to any nation that fields a navy of 3 000 sailors, or 15 heavies worth, and it costs 100 ducats to build.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-43.png


A flagship consists of up to 3 modifications on it. Each modification you pick will raise the maintenance cost of your flagship. Some modifications will only buff the flagship itself but some will buff the entire fleet that it’s part of. There are also some modifications that are restricted to specific nations.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-39-19.png


Here is a list as of this writing the current generic modifications we have in the game.
  • Mass Load Cannons: 15% more cannons on flagship
  • Hull Sheathing: +50% Flagship Durability
  • Trade Route Map: +1 Trade Power for all ships in fleet (Yes not only lightships)
  • Command Aftercastle: +5% Morale to Ships in Fleet
  • Improved Crows Nest: +5 Engagement Width
  • Mortars: +1 Blockade Impact on Siege
  • Standardized Signal Book: +1 Movement Speed for every ship in Fleet
Then we also have a few country specific ones.
  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-36-19.png


Next are the balance changes we’ve done. These are not tied with the future paid content but we are experimenting a bit with it to see how it gets received. There’s been a lot of discussion on the current meta with idea groups both on our forums and other platforms. So over the last couple of weeks we’ve been collecting data on what idea sets that are picked by players to get a proper statistical overview on where the meta lies. For clarification the data as follows is per player, per game. This means if two players in the same game picks the same idea groups, it will be counted twice. If you as a player start two seperate games and pick an idea group it will be counted twice. If you pick a group and then unpick it to pick another, it will count both instances of groups. I hope this explains what the data this is based on actually is.

Now one of the things we can see that Exploration ideas are the most popular idea set of all counting for 11% of the picks. Which makes sense, it’s an idea group that opens up a whole area for the player. Lowest on the list is Plutocracy with an abysmal 0.79%, one I’ve seen many point as an interesting and good group, but it’s unpopularity is probably due to its very scarce availability. Even Aristocracy clocks in on 3% which I've seen some refer to as "trash tier" of the military ones.

So the most unpopular idea groups are the ones we focused the most on, minus plutocracy. They are as follows.
  • Maritime ideas: 1.41%
  • Naval ideas: 1.09%
  • Spy ideas: 1.07%
upload_2018-10-30_9-13-42.png


We also focused on some pet peeves of ours like influence ideas which was the third most picked one, religious, expansion, humanist, administrative, diplomatic and innovativeness ideas. I’ll attach the change log to the end of this dev diary but I’ll try to put some more descriptive text to some of the more important changes.

So first I want to cover the changes to Espionage. Espionage gained the -20% AE Impact from Influence ideas to replace it’s -10% Liberty Desire. In return Influence gained -15% Subject Liberty desire to replace their 25% Heir Chance. Though Espionage gained another little fun feature.

On the 5th idea for Espionage you now get, besides just cheaper fabrication cost, the ability to fabricate claims on behalf of your vassals. This works for any type of vassal except tributaries. Important to note is that the claim will belong to the vassal and not you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-13-52.png


Another big change is to the colonisation game, We’ve thrown things around a little. The first two ideas of Exploration have been swapped and Exploration have been made to be a bit slower in colonization. Instead we have have buffed Expansion ideas to be the idea group that speeds up your colonisation. It gives you two colonist and way faster speed in getting it done. It’s finisher have been changed to give +5 Max States as well.

An experimental thing we are testing out now and seeing how it plays out as well is to put DLC locked values into the idea groups. People have for a long time asked for Innovativeness Gain in Innovative Ideas for instance. Now it got 50% of that, which converts into 5% Idea Cost if you don’t own Rule Britannia. A similar thing is -20% cheaper CoT Upgrade in Expansion ideas and -25% Expel Minority Cost for Exploration ideas.

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-3.png

Which monthly cost for a 20 development province can be visualized like this with all base and factors being set to 1 and no modifier to the missionary maintenance cost.

It does mean while converting the 100% autonomy territories of 3 dev will cost extra, it won’t be that super more expensive. But if you for instance have Samarkand for some reason try to convert it while it not being cored and states, it’s going to cost you a fair deal.

Following with this change, since missionaries are now actually gonna ask you to pay up, we’ve also changed a bit on how the maintenance slider works for them. Previously you could avoid paying any cost because you just needed to have enough strength on it’s own as the slider only affected the base values of missionary strength. Second if you did lower the slider and could make progress before, but without those 2% you will get a hard stop on any progress to the conversion. Now instead the slider decides how much of your conversion speed is actually generated, so if you are making progress on the conversion and lower it, it will instead lower the amount of progress you get.

So if you are paying dough, you have enough strength, it will always generate some progress for you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-29.png


Also with this change it means I've reworked the missionary tooltip also a bit, since missionaries can cost differently depending on where you can see them, it will list all your active missionaries and their cost.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-34.png


And here's a collection of the balance changes we've covered today.
- Gamebalance: Missionary maintenance cost now costs development^(1+local autonomy)
- Gamebalance: Missionary Maintenance no longer only operates on the base strength but instead it is a percentage of how much progress you get. So now as long as you pay money, you will always get some progress.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 3rd idea buffed to 20 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 4th idea switched out to be -50% Rival Border Fort Maintenance & -20% CoT Upgrade Cost(Dharma).
- Gamebalance: Expansion 6th idea switched out to be 1 colonist & 5% Settler Chance
- Gamebalance: Expansion Finisher now gives +5 States instead of Maintenance
- Gamebalance: Innovative 2nd idea switched out to be 50% Innovativeness Gain(Rule Britannia) or -5% Idea Cost(Non-Rule Britannia).
- Gamebalance: Innovative 5th idea switched out to be 25% Institution Spread.
- Gamebalance: Religious 4th idea buffed to have 2 Tolerance of Own Faith.
- Gamebalance: Religious 6th idea switched out to be -50% Missionary Maintenance Cost.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 3rd idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heretic.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 7th idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heathens.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 1st idea switched to 100% Naval Tradition from Trade.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 6th idea switched to +1 Free Leader and -25% Admiral Cost
- Gamebalance: Maritime 7th idea buffed to give +25% Privateering efficiency.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 1st idea and 2nd idea switched places.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 4th idea nerfed to 10 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 5th idea tariffs nerfed to 10% and given 20% Envoy Travel Time.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 6th idea switched to give -25% Expel Minority Cost or 5% Settler Chance without DLC.
- Gamebalance: Diplomatic 3rd idea switched out for 0.5 Prestige
- Gamebalance: Influence 2nd idea switched out for -15% subject liberty desire
- Gamebalance: Influence 4th idea switched out for +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Influence 6th idea lost +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.
- Gamebalance: Quantity 5th idea switched out for 33% Supply Limit Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Naval 4th idea switched out for 1 Yearly Naval Tradition.

That’s everything for today! Next week will be @neondt who will be going through a bunch of the country specific flavor for missions.
 
Last edited:

TheMeInTeam

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So your changed exploration and expansion ideas.
It's not always Exploration and possibly add Expansion anymore
But take Expansion, if you want to colonize, but you still need Exploration.
Sure it makes sense for names and helps nations who colonize around themselves, but makes Exploration useless alone.

Expansion + offensive lets you explore, albeit without the range boost. Not sure I'll be taking that one much. Exploration --> dump it might be a play with that as 1st group sometimes too.

Don't have 200-300 provinces of wrong religion?

Sure, I can just expand like a snail or not play the game.

Realistically if this is where they want idea group balance, it's not like all religions don't work. They could look at the complete garbage tier religions and give players a reason to consider using them.

Still, it's odd to nerf the 11th best idea group (out of 19 listed) in the name of "balance".
 
Last edited:

makaramus

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Some of these changes seem really arbitrary. Sweden just got flagship bonus for no reason at all and Maritime Ideas were made even weaker in order to supposedly buff them?
yea maritime is nerfed but am I the only one think they became more desireable?
I mean its doing other things than navy now compared to before. sure its worse for naval power but also better overall for everything else thanks to extra leader. also admiral discount means spending less diplo points for explorers or simply admirals
 

Praetorian44

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Can we get a tally on this question? Oh my god
Well it's not like I'm going to read through 18 pages of comments to see if someone else has asked it. I typically only read the first page or two of comments.
 

madman50007

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What's the best way to actually communicate with Paradox?
Dev Diaries are constantly responded to with questions that go unanswered. Jake's philosophy seems to be: "it is the way it is because I said so."
Is there any communication between company and customer beyond this? Are there PR people, and if their are, do they have any authority or are they used as meatshields?
I love this game and want to see it grow to be the best it can; but currently we're not on that track.


Aaand a meme question to get attention: so this is going to be a $5 dlc right?

Thanks
 

Vetgirig

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I'm amazed too see that many that take trash idea groups like trade and economics.

What they do is that they exchange MP into gold. But by the end of the game you got plenty of gold anyway.

Looks like its more a lot of inexperienced players who play a Colonisational game and take Exploration/Expansion/Trade/Economics and play a trade game.

Personally I find that I very seldom take 3 of these idea groups.

Also the nerf of Influence means that its just one good Diplomatic idea group and that Diplomacy.


Now when will we get a military group called Military ? Administrative and Diplomatic idea groups have theirs.
 

Mindbj

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Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
I would have very much liked to see Ming here, in the early stages of the game's time period they had hauntingly huge treasure fleets where the flagships are said to be the greatest of the time. It also gives opportunity for a few events as in real life they destroyed them for questionable seclusion reasons.
 

Piotrzeci

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yea maritime is nerfed but am I the only one think they became more desireable?
I mean its doing other things than navy now compared to before. sure its worse for naval power but also better overall for everything else thanks to extra leader. also admiral discount means spending less diplo points for explorers or simply admirals
They used to be good at naval combat because of bonus manoeuvre and also good at protecting trade and trade conflict wars. Now a combat idea, that also boosted light ships trade power is replaced with just cheaper admirals. How can it be more desirable now, when it is worse at everything?
 

lex.truman

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I'm amazed too see that many that take trash idea groups like trade and economics.

What they do is that they exchange MP into gold. But by the end of the game you got plenty of gold anyway.

Looks like its more a lot of inexperienced players who play a Colonisational game and take Exploration/Expansion/Trade/Economics and play a trade game.

Personally I find that I very seldom take 3 of these idea groups.

Also the nerf of Influence means that its just one good Diplomatic idea group and that Diplomacy.


Now when will we get a military group called Military ? Administrative and Diplomatic idea groups have theirs.

I generally take one each from diplomatic and admin of the four you mentioned. Exploration + Expansion, Exploration + Economic, and Trade + Economic all give a country an incredibly powerful income, and I like to select a pair appropriate to how much colonization will be useful for the country I'm playing.

They used to be good at naval combat because of bonus manoeuvre and also good at protecting trade and trade conflict wars. Now a combat idea, that also boosted light ships trade power is replaced with just cheaper admirals. How can it be more desirable now, when it is worse at everything?


Naval maneuver is an exceptionally strong stat, helping win battles, catch enemy fleets, and bump up trade power. More and cheaper admirals is good but it just doesn't measure up.

Currently maritime does two things: It makes your navy better at winning battles, and better at controlling trade. It does this in a lot of ways. A larger navy is good for both, as is more naval tradition (navy tradition = trade steering). What it really needs to be worth the opportunity cost is to give it a bit more of an edge on increasing trade income so it's worth it to take over trade for some countries. Here's what I would do:

-Add 25% privateer efficiency to the last idea (PDX is already planning this)
-Add +25% ship trade power to the second idea
-Replace -10% sailor maintenance with +10% trade efficiency in the third idea
-Make one or two maritime policies give an extra merchant or more trade efficiency

I think these changes would make the idea group reasonably good for improving trade. I like the idea of cheaper and more admirals, but I don't really see anything I'd be willing to replace in order to get them.
 

kgmi

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First Naval Doctrines in Britannia and now Flagships for the new DLC. And here I am wondering why I ever got Mare Nostrum....
Flagship concept sounds pretty cool nontheless.
 

BuraKodaz

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As the new features coming along, when do you plan to begin the new season of <DEV CLASH> @Groogy , @DDRJake would take the challange and create a world naval empire. It was great to see naval battles in the previous clash. He Who Rules the Waves, Rules the World
 

Azieloki

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I like the changes between Exploration and Expansion, but the rest of these changes are pretty questionable. The nerf to Humanist doesn't really address why it is the strongest group, but it's something I guess. I'm interested to see how missionary maintenance plays, it's certainly going to change things.

However, I really don't understand Paradox's priorities when it comes to naval warfare. You can add fluff like flagships any day, but it doesn't change the fact that naval battles are largely meaningless. Naval combat needs to be fleshed out more, and it needs to have a larger impact in war. You can wipe any enemy fleet and it won't impact war score or war exhaustion in any meaningful way.
 

-Makros-

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The main problem with the ideas is that the game at it's current state is so heavily loaded with all kinds of modifiers thanks to all the DLC and fluff that the ideas have difficult time competing with them and the idea groups are much less influential than they used to be. For example additional diplomats are not that attractive anymore when you get them from goverment rank. With colonial nations and trade companies you can be swimming in merchants.

Paradox have not actually added more ways to get diplomats other than policies which were added a long time ago. Back before government ranks were a thing, you had to build an embassy (unique building) at diplomatic tech 6 which gave you +1 diplomat. That 3rd diplomat you get from being a kingdom rank is simply the replacement to the old building.

You are right about merchants though, Trade companies and colonial nations are what severely weakened trade ideas.

And I can't believe some people think +1 diplomat is bad, I go crazy if I don't have atleast 4.

+1 diplomat is useful for some time, but the value doesn't last. Eventually you reach a point where you have good relations/spy network with everyone you want, and your diplomats have less and less to do. Other ideas will keep paying back, but the extra diplomat will be diminishing returns in the long run.

More importantly, spy network construction should be something that only espionage can do decently, just as with missionaries and religious ideas. That would give espionage some kind of unique thing it can offer, at least.

Diplomats don't have to always do something in order to be useful. It is always good to one laying around to take action when you see an opportunity that equires you to act quickly.

Well some of these changes are really stupid.

Humanist was just starting to get played with the religious nerf. So now that religious is better, reducing the tolerance by one is going to relegate humanist to COMPLETLY unplayed.

Inovative was actually nerfed. merc maintenece is one of the KEY draws, the other being 20% ICA
So a real mixed bag of changes.

Wait, -15% merc maintenance was a KEY draw? How? Perhaps in merc-spam-multiplayer but -15% merc maintenance only reduces maintenance from 250% to 235%, not that big of a deal.