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EU4 - Development Diary - 30th of October 2018

Hello and welcome back to another huge dev diary! Today we’ll talk about two new features, a small one and a big one. We then end the diary with two changes to balance. Also as usual, large warning on that all of this is work in progress and might not match the final product!

First up is a small little feature based on the Portuguese Marines and them attacking forts along the coast of Africa and India. Naval Barrage is the same as Artillery Barrage but it requires the cannons of your ships instead of field artillery. It goes by amount of cannons on the coast / 100 to the fort level to determine if you can break open it’s walls. It will cost 50 military points just like the normal Artillery Barrage.

ART NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-7.png


The Portuguese also gets a small bonus by a change we’ll describe in the next feature for the dev diary.


The big feature of today is Flagships. A more bombastic and expensive ship as the pride of your navy. It houses the commanding officers of the fleet who plan the engagement and mission the ships take part in. They are unlocked to any nation that fields a navy of 3 000 sailors, or 15 heavies worth, and it costs 100 ducats to build.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-10-43.png


A flagship consists of up to 3 modifications on it. Each modification you pick will raise the maintenance cost of your flagship. Some modifications will only buff the flagship itself but some will buff the entire fleet that it’s part of. There are also some modifications that are restricted to specific nations.

ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-39-19.png


Here is a list as of this writing the current generic modifications we have in the game.
  • Mass Load Cannons: 15% more cannons on flagship
  • Hull Sheathing: +50% Flagship Durability
  • Trade Route Map: +1 Trade Power for all ships in fleet (Yes not only lightships)
  • Command Aftercastle: +5% Morale to Ships in Fleet
  • Improved Crows Nest: +5 Engagement Width
  • Mortars: +1 Blockade Impact on Siege
  • Standardized Signal Book: +1 Movement Speed for every ship in Fleet
Then we also have a few country specific ones.
  • Portuguese Navigators: +100 Exploration Mission Range
  • Portuguese Bombardiers: -50% Naval Barrage Cost
  • Portuguese Trade Route Map: +2 Trade power for every ship in the fleet.
  • Spanish Grand Armada: -30% Attrition for fleet
  • Spanish Treasure Fleet: Cannons count twice for hunting pirates
  • Spanish Mass Load Cannons: 30% More cannons on Flagship
  • Swedish Mass Load Cannons: +100 More Cannons on Flagship
  • Dutch Courage: 10% Morale bonus in fleet.
ART/INTERFACE NOT FINAL
upload_2018-10-30_9-36-19.png


Next are the balance changes we’ve done. These are not tied with the future paid content but we are experimenting a bit with it to see how it gets received. There’s been a lot of discussion on the current meta with idea groups both on our forums and other platforms. So over the last couple of weeks we’ve been collecting data on what idea sets that are picked by players to get a proper statistical overview on where the meta lies. For clarification the data as follows is per player, per game. This means if two players in the same game picks the same idea groups, it will be counted twice. If you as a player start two seperate games and pick an idea group it will be counted twice. If you pick a group and then unpick it to pick another, it will count both instances of groups. I hope this explains what the data this is based on actually is.

Now one of the things we can see that Exploration ideas are the most popular idea set of all counting for 11% of the picks. Which makes sense, it’s an idea group that opens up a whole area for the player. Lowest on the list is Plutocracy with an abysmal 0.79%, one I’ve seen many point as an interesting and good group, but it’s unpopularity is probably due to its very scarce availability. Even Aristocracy clocks in on 3% which I've seen some refer to as "trash tier" of the military ones.

So the most unpopular idea groups are the ones we focused the most on, minus plutocracy. They are as follows.
  • Maritime ideas: 1.41%
  • Naval ideas: 1.09%
  • Spy ideas: 1.07%
upload_2018-10-30_9-13-42.png


We also focused on some pet peeves of ours like influence ideas which was the third most picked one, religious, expansion, humanist, administrative, diplomatic and innovativeness ideas. I’ll attach the change log to the end of this dev diary but I’ll try to put some more descriptive text to some of the more important changes.

So first I want to cover the changes to Espionage. Espionage gained the -20% AE Impact from Influence ideas to replace it’s -10% Liberty Desire. In return Influence gained -15% Subject Liberty desire to replace their 25% Heir Chance. Though Espionage gained another little fun feature.

On the 5th idea for Espionage you now get, besides just cheaper fabrication cost, the ability to fabricate claims on behalf of your vassals. This works for any type of vassal except tributaries. Important to note is that the claim will belong to the vassal and not you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-13-52.png


Another big change is to the colonisation game, We’ve thrown things around a little. The first two ideas of Exploration have been swapped and Exploration have been made to be a bit slower in colonization. Instead we have have buffed Expansion ideas to be the idea group that speeds up your colonisation. It gives you two colonist and way faster speed in getting it done. It’s finisher have been changed to give +5 Max States as well.

An experimental thing we are testing out now and seeing how it plays out as well is to put DLC locked values into the idea groups. People have for a long time asked for Innovativeness Gain in Innovative Ideas for instance. Now it got 50% of that, which converts into 5% Idea Cost if you don’t own Rule Britannia. A similar thing is -20% cheaper CoT Upgrade in Expansion ideas and -25% Expel Minority Cost for Exploration ideas.

Last important change is to Religious. The +2% Heretic Missionary Strength have been removed and instead we have 50% Missionary Maintenance there. Now you might be thinking “Well that value is worthless, missionaries costs literally nothing!” We’re changing that and removing the block on religious conversion requiring you to have the province fully cored and stated. Instead it will be a soft block coming from conversion now going to be real expensive. So to be extra clear, you will be able to convert any province again, it will just cost you a bucket load of ducats.

The idea is to have a non-linear cost increase based on the autonomy of the province you are trying to convert. At the moment this is up still for being tweaked and balanced but the raw formula for the yearly cost for all math geeks: base cost + dev factor * development ^ ( autonomy base + local autonomy * autonomy factor) * local/global missionary maintenance cost

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-3.png

Which monthly cost for a 20 development province can be visualized like this with all base and factors being set to 1 and no modifier to the missionary maintenance cost.

It does mean while converting the 100% autonomy territories of 3 dev will cost extra, it won’t be that super more expensive. But if you for instance have Samarkand for some reason try to convert it while it not being cored and states, it’s going to cost you a fair deal.

Following with this change, since missionaries are now actually gonna ask you to pay up, we’ve also changed a bit on how the maintenance slider works for them. Previously you could avoid paying any cost because you just needed to have enough strength on it’s own as the slider only affected the base values of missionary strength. Second if you did lower the slider and could make progress before, but without those 2% you will get a hard stop on any progress to the conversion. Now instead the slider decides how much of your conversion speed is actually generated, so if you are making progress on the conversion and lower it, it will instead lower the amount of progress you get.

So if you are paying dough, you have enough strength, it will always generate some progress for you.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-29.png


Also with this change it means I've reworked the missionary tooltip also a bit, since missionaries can cost differently depending on where you can see them, it will list all your active missionaries and their cost.

upload_2018-10-30_9-14-34.png


And here's a collection of the balance changes we've covered today.
- Gamebalance: Missionary maintenance cost now costs development^(1+local autonomy)
- Gamebalance: Missionary Maintenance no longer only operates on the base strength but instead it is a percentage of how much progress you get. So now as long as you pay money, you will always get some progress.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 3rd idea buffed to 20 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Expansion 4th idea switched out to be -50% Rival Border Fort Maintenance & -20% CoT Upgrade Cost(Dharma).
- Gamebalance: Expansion 6th idea switched out to be 1 colonist & 5% Settler Chance
- Gamebalance: Expansion Finisher now gives +5 States instead of Maintenance
- Gamebalance: Innovative 2nd idea switched out to be 50% Innovativeness Gain(Rule Britannia) or -5% Idea Cost(Non-Rule Britannia).
- Gamebalance: Innovative 5th idea switched out to be 25% Institution Spread.
- Gamebalance: Religious 4th idea buffed to have 2 Tolerance of Own Faith.
- Gamebalance: Religious 6th idea switched out to be -50% Missionary Maintenance Cost.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 3rd idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heretic.
- Gamebalance: Humanist 7th idea nerfed to 2 tolerance of heathens.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 1st idea switched to 100% Naval Tradition from Trade.
- Gamebalance: Maritime 6th idea switched to +1 Free Leader and -25% Admiral Cost
- Gamebalance: Maritime 7th idea buffed to give +25% Privateering efficiency.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 1st idea and 2nd idea switched places.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 4th idea nerfed to 10 Settler Growth.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 5th idea tariffs nerfed to 10% and given 20% Envoy Travel Time.
- Gamebalance: Exploration 6th idea switched to give -25% Expel Minority Cost or 5% Settler Chance without DLC.
- Gamebalance: Diplomatic 3rd idea switched out for 0.5 Prestige
- Gamebalance: Influence 2nd idea switched out for -15% subject liberty desire
- Gamebalance: Influence 4th idea switched out for +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Influence 6th idea lost +1 diplomatic relations
- Gamebalance: Espionage 3rd idea lost 10% Province Trade Power Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 4th idea switched out for 20% AE Impact.
- Gamebalance: Espionage 5th idea buffed with Claim Fabrication onbehalf of Vassals.
- Gamebalance: Quantity 5th idea switched out for 33% Supply Limit Modifier.
- Gamebalance: Naval 4th idea switched out for 1 Yearly Naval Tradition.

That’s everything for today! Next week will be @neondt who will be going through a bunch of the country specific flavor for missions.
 
Last edited:

Mindel

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Mate, I used to take Aristocratic on the strength of it having a Diplomat.

+1 Diplomat might or might not be mechanically exciting, but it sure as hell makes life a lot more pleasant. Also, Espionage pretty much needs +1 Diplomat, since it's an idea group whose central premise is "make more use of your spy network" and so you're going to be increasing the level of demand for long-term allocation of diplomats.

+1 diplomat is useful for some time, but the value doesn't last. Eventually you reach a point where you have good relations/spy network with everyone you want, and your diplomats have less and less to do. Other ideas will keep paying back, but the extra diplomat will be diminishing returns in the long run.

More importantly, spy network construction should be something that only espionage can do decently, just as with missionaries and religious ideas. That would give espionage some kind of unique thing it can offer, at least.
 

lolada

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I'll go a bit further.. take military groups, they are probably best balanced.

Offensive - i want power boost and faster sieges - yes please pips and siege progress, good group.
Defensive - i want power boost and focus on fortresses and attrition, reinforcing. Yes, good group, big morale is worth it. This idea carries the group.
Quality - i want power boost on both land and navy - yes please, good group
Aristocratic - i want power boost for my cavalry... aarrgh no fail. I want diplomat... ergh we have enough. Faster siege? Ok i might pick for +siege as late pick. Bad group.
Plutocratic - i want power boost and some economy boost - yes please. Bonuses are just on a low side a bit.. 2.5% discipline eergh make that 5%
Naval - i want super uber duper navy - well ok go pick it. At least this group is good for that.

This way you can see two offenders here, aristocratic and plutocratic need some help.

Balance is worse for diplomatic and admin groups.
 

AlphaSonic

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I don't understand nerfing the +Settle Growth of Exploration. It feels really bad taking that idea with Expansion, now it will be the same but in Exploration.

Nobody likes taking an Idea that gives the same bonus as another one but weaker.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Some interesting changes to be sure, but I'm not entirely sure whether the claim fabrication on behalf of your subject is actually of any benefit. As of now, you can just mark provinces red in the diplomatic feedback interface and set the country as hostile, which already makes vassals fabricate claims like crazy. Sure, sometimes they happen to refuse, but in most cases they are pretty reliable. So basically you get 90% of funcstionality of that idea for free and without the need to spend your own diplomats.

Another thing is that claims fabricated by overlord should probably not apply opinion malus with the target to the vassal, but rather to the overlord, though that's just a nitpick.

From extensive experience, vassals do not reliably fabricate claims.

Espionage is a reasonable early contender with that balance rework. -20% AE is a significant part of influence, but another significant reason it's picked are DIP savings (on both annexation and peace deals). Extra diplomat and the AE being on espionage plus the ability to extend claims reliable via vassals are all major boosts to the group.

One thing I don't like is that the humanist/religious balance is still going to be skewed. Espionage + humanist will be significantly stronger than religious + anything for most nations by my estimation.
 

Master of Times

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The absurdity of the boost to sweden is remarkable...

Also, It seems that Portugal will continue to be a below average nation in general, despite it being one of the most impactful in the game's period. And despite the immersion pack being about Portugal and Spain. Great.

PS: and adding insult to injury, they give a similar bonus to spain, but making it much (much) weaker. As in: Here's a bonus for spain, and here's that bonus x10 to sweden, because we're swedish! yey!
 
Last edited:

durbal

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From extensive experience, vassals do not reliably fabricate claims.

Espionage is a reasonable early contender with that balance rework. -20% AE is a significant part of influence, but another significant reason it's picked are DIP savings (on both annexation and peace deals). Extra diplomat and the AE being on espionage plus the ability to extend claims reliable via vassals are all major boosts to the group.

One thing I don't like is that the humanist/religious balance is still going to be skewed. Espionage + humanist will be significantly stronger than religious + anything for most nations by my estimation.

The vassal claims thing is totally garbage and useless. I'd rather have the 10% trade power modifier back FFS.

In my extensive experience and tests, vassals do reliably generate claims. Vassals get a bunch of hate from patches ago when their AI was broken. It no longer is, and people keep repeating the same nonsense since the groupthink in that player group is borderline cultist. It also doesn't help that probably 99% of the playerbase doesn't know how to make vassals generate claims. Allowing overlords to generate claims from vassal territory doesn't fix the problem with vassals generating claims (if there even were one) and is only situationally useful anyway. It's a garbage change with a sloppy UI that needs to be replaced with something else. Why not allow Espionage to chain claims like the Age of Discovery ability? The code is already there anyway and it'd allow Espionage to be useful for a lot of countries that don't have a lot of immediate neighbors they can take on (e.g. Italian minors). What a concept -- an idea group that gets picked because of its need for a certain strategy rather than just because it's the best (i.e. administrative).
 

Willem IV

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Historically nations had several flagships, though in the game for gameplay reasons you can only field one. Though you can capture other nations flagships(They lose their bonuses though but keep the flag on them).
Could you make a achievement for when the Netherlands/Hollands captures the English/British flagship?
As the Dutch stole the Royal Charles during the Raid on the Medway in June 1667. It's stern is still on display in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam.
 

lolada

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No, vassals don't reliably fabricate - even if you mark provinces as vital - they can be super slow and lazy. It probably depends on ruler personality and their diplomats might be busy, who knows. So its a good addition - it should probably be in base game, not locked in espionage.
 

RobRoy3

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Dear Paradox
Maybe ability to convert culture in territories for 100% adm ideas? (just like You do with religion? )
hmmm... Not sure that is the right answer, but you raise a good point. I was assuming that they'd revert the new restriction on converting culture if they were also reverting the new restriction on converting religion. But maybe not? Or maybe someone is forgetting about that change?

Seems like the two have generally gone together, and should continue to do so. Would be weird if we can now convert the Aztecs to Catholic religion (as we could before Dharma), but can't teach them Castilian, anymore, because...reasons.
 

flogi

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Good changes, nice features. However why not go one step further with the naval thingy? Don't limit these additional options to flagships only. It would be fun to have a shipbuilder of some sorts like stellaris. Would make naval combat a lot more engaging. One could design new shiip types, like a super battleship or a a trade ship that can fight.
So in general: Loved the dev diary.
I don't really think the idea changes will anything about the vanilla meta though. There are simply too little idea groups ;) *points to signature* ;)
 

Xetfield

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What about Russian flagship bonuses? They kicked asses of Sweden and Ottomans. Maybe something like morale bonus like Dutch.
 

Lord Hoosier

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British should have something unique for flagships too. I feel that they were as big a naval power as Spain and Portugal are in the early game.

Also I like the Swedish flagship component as it seems to be based on the Vasa.
 

Brainblow

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So are you guys removing mercenary-related ideas from idea groups? Because PLEASE KEEP DOING IT! So please take another pass at Plutocratic and Administrative ideas as well!
 

Afonso de Albuquerque

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No, vassals don't reliably fabricate - even if you mark provinces as vital - they can be super slow and lazy. It probably depends on ruler personality and their diplomats might be busy, who knows. So its a good addition - it should probably be in base game, not locked in espionage.
I'd argue that instead vassals should start fabricating more reliably, or at least communicate better to the player why they aren't doing it. It can get very frustrating. If the problem is the AI, then surely the first priority should be to fix the AI, and then worry about introducing a new mechanic? (granted, this is one that happens to synergize well with Espionage)