EU4 - Development Diary - 2nd of October 2018

[navaluiki]

After checking 1500 population, I admit that on aragon I was wrong, after seeing population on aragon they should have around 30 to 40% of castillian development. But I keep my opinion on the 75% of Portugal, if you check castille population (with no granada) vs portuguese it was more or less this ratio.

Now vs england or even france, portugal and castille region are seriously underdeveloped.

That has bugged me since I purchased the game. I still remember the first time I played EU4 and couldn't defeat the French (when in history Spain defeated them many times in the 16 Century, even their king was captured at Pavia). I also see many times half of Spain conquered by France and I am like "why is this constantly happening?".
I hope this pack will make think more historical and fair.
Concerning Portugal, I don't know what would be better, whether boosting its development or improving their ideas, what do you think?

 

[One Rad Fella]

Replacing the gold mine tradegood in la mancha by "cow tradegood" and adding "copper mine" in cordoba can be a solution

Spain has a silver mine in La Mancha that was very important, even being one of the reasons the Romans conquered it, there's no reason to replace it

 

[Naranjito]

After checking 1500 population, I admit that on aragon I was wrong, after seeing population on aragon they should have around 30 to 40% of castillian development. But I keep my opinion on the 75% of Portugal, if you check castille population (with no granada) vs portuguese it was more or less this ratio.

Now vs england or even france, portugal and castille region are seriously underdeveloped.

Well write a book or explain it to historians.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...stilla-spain-with-data-and-documents.1091877/

Because they say that Castile had 6 times the population of Portugal or Aragon, and that they were richer than them.

Come on, Castilla was much richer then than the Crown of Aragon, which had not recovered from the plague and whose shores were ravaged by pirates.

It is vox populi, Castilla had around 6 times the population of Aragon and they were also richer.

They were not comparable.

 

[One Rad Fella]

@DDRJake @Groogy can you please give us an idea as to if this update is coming out in a week or 3 months

 

[Anarchya]

;-0



Thanks Anarchya, this is probably the most helpful post I've seen in years. Hopefully the devs sees it and do something about it.

Well, I said 15 provinces in that post.. but I could say too that Portugal could have 17 provinces... I said that we could have only Braga, Vila Real and Bragança at north (3).. but could be 4.. Braga, Guimarães (where Portugal was born), Vila Real and Bragança.. Guimarães (inner province) could produce grain or wine.. then at south, Algarve could become 2 provinces... Silves at west and Faro in the east... Silves producing fish and Faro producing salt.. well 17 would be really really cool.. but I don't want hurt feelings AHAHAHAHAH

 

[Naranjito]

I do not want to debate but before saying things like that Portugal almost polished Castile and Aragon together, a phrase that I read from several Portuguese, we must understand that it was a civil war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Castilian_Succession

In favor of Joanna: Portugal France Some of the high Castilian nobility and descendants of Portuguese families who settled in Castile after 1385; the Archbishop of Toledo (Alfonso Carrillo de Acuña); the Estúñiga family, with land bordering Portugal and Navarrese ancestors; the Marquis of Villena (Diego López Pacheco); the Marquis of Cádiz (Rodrigo Ponce de León); [7] and the Grandmaster of the Order of Calatrava (Rodrigo Téllez Girón). [8]

In favor of Isabella: The Crown of Aragon The rest of the Castilian nobility: the powerful Mendoza family; the Manrique de Lara family; the Duke of Medina Sidonia (Enrique Pérez de Guzmán); Beltrán de la Cueva ;, the Order of Santiago and the Order of Calatrava, except its Grandmaster. [8] The Duchy of Burgundy and the Kingdom of England were at war with France in 1475, but they did not coordinate their actions with the supporters of Isabella and they are rarely considered part of the Isabella Alliance.

That is, it was not a Portugal vs Spain, it was not a football match, there were many nobles in Castile who supported Juana (Portugal), and even near the end of the war, Extremadura, Galicia and La Mancha rose in favor of Juana

 

[pauletx]

That has bugged me since I purchased the game. I still remember the first time I played EU4 and couldn't defeat the French (when in history Spain defeated them many times in the 16 Century, even their king was captured at Pavia). I also see many times half of Spain conquered by France and I am like "why is this constantly happening?".
I hope this pack will make think more historical and fair.
Concerning Portugal, I don't know what would be better, whether boosting its development or improving their ideas, what do you think?

3-4 Days ago i started a game as Muscovy. Surprisingly and for once, Castile actually got "Burgundian Inheritance" event and annexed a good chunk of HRE at the first 30 years of game start. 20 years later they did the "smart" decision of rejecting "Iberian Wedding" (basically AI Poland 2.0), like Poland did practically at the start of the same game picking the "local noble" boi.

The outcome 100 years later caught me off guard, with Aragon practically annexing entire Iberia, but given the current state of Spain and the AI, its not surprising. I was more like "so this is one of these games, huh...". In fact, i was practically holding back annexing Lithuania bc that would make it too easy and is just steamrolling.

I think they should remove those alternative options of not accepting the PUs, at least for the AI.

 

[One Rad Fella]

Well, I said 15 provinces in that post.. but I could say too that Portugal could have 17 provinces... I said that we could have only Braga, Vila Real and Bragança at north (3).. but could be 4.. Braga, Guimarães (where Portugal was born), Vila Real and Bragança.. Guimarães (inner province) could produce grain or wine.. then at south, Algarve could become 2 provinces... Silves at west and Faro in the east... Silves producing fish and Faro producing salt.. well 17 would be really really cool.. but I don't want hurt feelings AHAHAHAHAH

Anarchya is going to signle handedly make this immersion pack

 

[regne_valencia]

Spain has a silver mine in La Mancha that was very important, even being one of the reasons the Romans conquered it, there's no reason to replace it

Romans empty all the mines they found,in the times of eu4 the roman mines were already empty

 

[navaluiki]

3-4 Days ago i started a game as Muscovy. Surprisingly and for once, Castile actually got "Burgundian Inheritance" event and annexed a good chunk of HRE at the first 30 years of game start. 20 years later they did the "smart" decision of rejecting "Iberian Wedding" (basically AI Poland 2.0), like Poland did practically at the start of the same game picking the "local noble" boi.

The outcome 100 years later caught me off guard, with Aragon practically annexing entire Iberia, but given the current state of Spain and the AI, its not surprising. I was more like "so this is one of these games, huh...". In fact, i was practically holding back annexing Lithuania bc that would make it too easy and is just steamrolling.

I think they should remove those alternative options of not accepting the PUs, at least for the AI.

I hope they rework these PU events, they have no sense, why would anyone not take a free kingdom without any downside?
Besides, these events should fire more than once or al least more frecuently.

 

[Foefaller]

@DDRJake @Groogy can you please give us an idea as to if this update is coming out in a week or 3 months

I'm not them, but Third Rome and Rule Britannia both had 10 dev diaries between the very first details and release, so if this new one follows the same pattern we're talking about 2-2/12 months off, at or around the second or third week of December.

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

I do not want to debate but before saying things like that Portugal almost polished Castile and Aragon together, a phrase that I read from several Portuguese, we must understand that it was a civil war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Castilian_Succession

In favor of Joanna: Portugal France Some of the high Castilian nobility and descendants of Portuguese families who settled in Castile after 1385; the Archbishop of Toledo (Alfonso Carrillo de Acuña); the Estúñiga family, with land bordering Portugal and Navarrese ancestors; the Marquis of Villena (Diego López Pacheco); the Marquis of Cádiz (Rodrigo Ponce de León); [7] and the Grandmaster of the Order of Calatrava (Rodrigo Téllez Girón). [8]

In favor of Isabella: The Crown of Aragon The rest of the Castilian nobility: the powerful Mendoza family; the Manrique de Lara family; the Duke of Medina Sidonia (Enrique Pérez de Guzmán); Beltrán de la Cueva ;, the Order of Santiago and the Order of Calatrava, except its Grandmaster. [8] The Duchy of Burgundy and the Kingdom of England were at war with France in 1475, but they did not coordinate their actions with the supporters of Isabella and they are rarely considered part of the Isabella Alliance.

That is, it was not a Portugal vs Spain, it was not a football match, there were many nobles in Castile who supported Juana (Portugal), and even near the end of the war, Extremadura, Galicia and La Mancha rose in favor of Juana

France didn't help at all and even if 1/3 of castille helped Portugal you still had aragon and naples... And Portugal made a win on sea and a stalemate in land. Thats why spain lost all the african possessions to Portugal and had to pay war reparations.

The sources I have, show Portugal with almost 3m population (counting overseas). In your stats, Spain should have 1/3 of france's development...

 

[Naranjito]

Portugal demography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Portugal

Spain: 6.8
France: 15
Others give almost 8 million, but come on, about half.

In 1600:
France: 18
Spain: 8.2
And more GDP per capita for Spain in 1600.

The funny thing is that it is approximately half according to paradox, while Portugal is not 15 times smaller than France.

And Naples in the Castilian civil war was a free state, no longer belonged to the Crown of Aragon.

 

[Mingmung]

Discussing populations is useless. Gameplay > population.

The devs generally look at the distribution of development per region. Roghtfully so. So, it's useless to compare between wholly different regions.

 

[TheRipper69-PT]

Portugal demography:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Portugal

Spain: 6.8
France: 15
Others give almost 8 million, but come on, about half.

In 1600:
France: 18
Spain: 8.2
And more GDP per capita for Spain in 1600.

The funny thing is that it is approximately half according to paradox, while Portugal is not 15 times smaller than France.

And Naples in the Castilian civil war was a free state, no longer belonged to the Crown of Aragon.

I have no idea what are your sources but on GDP they are flat wrong: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/GDP-per-capita-in-European-economies.png

On the population one, the wikipedia got it from a source stating that is only "contagem de homens validos" that means only male adult working age population...

And naples king was ferrante, alfonso v son. No PU? But aragon dependency, so at least their vassal.

If you give castille 6 times more dev than Portugal, how come Portugal even invaded castille in 1470's? How happened for portuguese that didnt even needed to pay taxes until middle 1500?
Castille even struggled to conquer granada. And according to you it should have 10 times more development. Can't you see that your point is just really far from what happened in history?

Castille got PUed, and spain almost got PUed under Portugal, this tiny country according to your sources. That somehow had 2 of the biggest cities in europe by 1500

Not to count with all the battles between the two that Portugal always managed to win, and castille gets the land buffs while portugal not even naval ones has.

 

[pauletx]

I have no idea what are your sources but on GDP they are flat wrong: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/GDP-per-capita-in-European-economies.png

On the population one, the wikipedia got it from a source stating that is only "contagem de homens validos" that means only male adult working age population...

And naples king was ferrante, alfonso v son. No PU? But aragon dependency, so at least their vassal.

If you give castille 6 times more dev than Portugal, how come Portugal even invaded castille in 1470's? How happened for portuguese that didnt even needed to pay taxes until middle 1500?
Castille even struggled to conquer granada. And according to you it should have 10 times more development. Can't you see that your point is just really far from what happened in history?

Castille got PUed, and spain almost got PUed under Portugal, this tiny country according to your sources. That somehow had 2 of the biggest cities in europe by 1500

Not to count with all the battles between the two that Portugal always managed to win, and castille gets the land buffs while portugal not even naval ones has.

I really doubt that Portugal was really that superior, given the comparing quantity of the territories that both countries colonised in the Americas. Everyone knows that the Treaty of Tordesillas gave both countries his own expansion zones, but wouldn't have a "Stronger than Castile" Portugal simply get more, by the treaty being addapted to his strenght or simply taking the ladn by force?

Naples is simply too far from Iberia to help Spain in his war, and if what u said is right and Portugal had naval superiority, i don't se how will they able to help. And don't even count Aragon, with his furious nobility because the PU i can see perfectly them trying to sabotage the Castile-Aragonese union. And don't forget that Portugal was supported by France and by Spanish nobles contrary to Isabella. Frankly speakin i don't see how Castile would win in such a situation.

By the way stop trying ti make us feel like Portugal was and is superior to Spain. Its like u trying to get only Portugal developed.

 

[Tercio117]

Great idea!

Just realised this was added in 1.27 lmao. Thanks!

 

[Tercio117]

FYI, Galician is already in the game. As is a tag for Galicia. Even got unique ideas.

I don’t think it has Galician culture though does it?

 

[Slayen]

I don’t think it has Galician culture though does it?

It does. I even just loaded up the game to double check.

 

[pauletx]

I don’t think it has Galician culture though does it?

There is a Galician Culture, Tag and Ideas, just check it m8