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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of February 2017

Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

eu4_123.png


Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

eu4_126.png


The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

eu4_124.png


Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!
 
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chopak

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Also I find the sentence "After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist." to be overly simplified and against what actually happened during various times. There were times when there were several states claiming mandate at the same time, just as sholars would write about previous dynasties instead of pretending their history did not exist.
Yup, and afaik most Chinese still refer to themselves as Han Chinese.
 

Zwirbaum

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@DDRJake
Meritocracy gives +cost/-cost but cost of what?

Also is the old autonomy floor still present for Celestial Empire goverment form?
 

tre3qwerty

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@DDRJake
Meritocracy gives +cost/-cost but cost of what?

Also is the old autonomy floor still present for Celestial Empire goverment form?

Advisor cost, it's written just before the piece of text you're referring to:
Nice catch, Meritocracy affects spy detection chance and advisor cost, from -50% detection and +25% cost at 0 Meritocracy, to +50% detection and -25% cost at 100 Meritocracy.
 

AdmiralAqua

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As an Asian player of EU4, I absolutely love this new mechanic, however, I'd also love to see Asia get more love.
I'm a huge history buff, something that drew me to EU4 in the first place, and as someone who's interested in both European and East Asian history, I very much love the direction you took with Europe, and the game really helped me learn more and appreciate the rich and colourful history of Europe, while providing an enjoyable experience. However, Asia, in my honest opinion, is still very lacking and makes for rather lackluster games (aside from perhaps India/Malacca atm), and I'm very pleased to see the direction the hard-working development team is taking to combat this with the new Emperor of China mechanic, but I'd also love to see the rest of Asia get some sweet, sweet love. Pardon me if this gets too long, I'm rather passionate about the subject.

The first thing I'd like to see fixed would probably be Buddhism, and I'm pretty sure a majority of experienced EU4 players would agree with me on this. Buddhism has no real perks when compared to other religions, and the karma mechanic is not only very patience-wearing but also has little to no historical basis. I'm a Theravada Buddhist in real life, and I would say that the karma mechanic used in this game is very unrealistic when put in perspective of our traditional scriptures.

I think also ideas for certain nations (Ayutthaya, Lan Xang, Khmer come to mind) should be adjusted, because when compared to other nations with the same significance during the time period (eg. Ayutthaya v. Malacca in the domination of the Malay states), the ideas of these nations are very lackluster. Ayutthaya was a very militaristic nation that fought various wars against the Burmese and subjugated modern day Thailand and parts of Laos and Cambodia, along with being one of the first nations in Asia to trade with European colonialists when they arrived, however, this is barely reflected in the ideas of the nation. In fact, the only military idea of Ayutthaya is the +10% manpower modifier, which frankly speaking isn't even that historically accurate considering Southeast Asia was barely populated during the majority of the game's timeframe. Thai uber-nationalistic pride is barely reflected in Ayutthayan ideas, despite it easily being justifiable for a +army morale idea rather than a flimsy -1 national unrest (pretty unrealistic considering the epic power struggles in Ayutthaya every time a monarch died). The Khmer Empire was one of the oldest empires by 1444, and had very rich history and culture, and should have ideas more focused on diplomacy (+diplo rep, +diplo relations) due to its cultural influence on neighboring states, but instead, has 2 ideas somehow focused on its navy. Sorry if the rant is getting a bit too long here, I just wanted to point out how frustrated I sometimes get with the historical inaccuracy displayed in the idea groups of nations with large historical significance in the region, but due to crappy national ideas get downplayed a lot.

To add a new level of depth into playing Asia, I suggest the development team revisit a lot of nations in terms of ideas and perhaps add new formables with historical significance (eg. The Kingdom of Siam, the Kingdom of Burma) to the game as well. I love the direction you're taking with the Emperor of China mechanic, and I'd love to see the rest of Asia get a revisit as well.

Thank you to the development team, you guys are doing a wonderful job, and I love the direction you are taking the game. Everything above is just a suggestion of what you could do, thank you for making EU4 the enjoyable experience it is so far.​
 

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So now instead of china exploding, somebody will have to conquer it? I don't believe anyone is powerful enough in asia to do that.. I think manchu's need to get buffed (lucky nation, etc.) and have more incentive to attack ming.
 
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matto442

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I feel like the last reform should have something extra. Doesn't need to be a bonus, maybe as little as changing "Empire of China" to "Glorious Empire of China" or "Eternal Empire of China" in the Mandate of Heaven screen.
 
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Zwirbaum

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GaleBread

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I like it, this will give the East Asian region some nice mechanics to play with. Wonder if anything will happen on the religion front in the expansion.

Have to agree with the Decree hat being a bit awkward though. Even disregarding the fact pre-Qing dynasties never used that style of head-wear, even in the Qing dynasty it is more a tool to signify the importance of an individual bureaucrat than imperial authority. I would actually suggest replacing it with a maybe a Jade Seal icon, since while the Imperial Seal itself had been lost even before the time represented in EU4, the concept of its authority still lingers.
 

Jer.Kaff van Hiderman

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Firstly,it's really pleasing to see the works of the new mechanic(especially as a Chinese)!
But I have a question:does it require owning a great amount of chinese province to become the Emperor?(If no,we really need it)
And as I know,"Gaituguiliu" standed for replacing native tribal rulers with directly commissioned bureaucracts,in where formerly hadnt sinicized.So to act as a celestial reform might not be suitable(maybe it's better to be a special ability of confucianism?)
Finally,a manchu hat icon for all east asian ministers is an exactly bad idea
 
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Lysistrata

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Me right now:


Will the Chinese Emperors get access to the same succession mechanics as the Ottomans? IIRC the Emperors always had a load of concubines and their dynasties were never in any danger of extinction. It's weird seeing Ming get inherited by e.g. the Ashikaga right now.

Would you guys consider making Ryukyu and Manchu a bit more interesting next? I think Ryukyu could use a few more provinces and a new culture and religion (it had only recently united from a series of smaller kingdoms in 1444, and they weren't pagans any more than the Japanese were). The Manchus could also possibly use their own religion, since I'm pretty sure they weren't Tengri.
 
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Zwirbaum

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I like it, this will give the East Asian region some nice mechanics to play with. Wonder if anything will happen on the religion front in the expansion.

Have to agree with the Decree hat being a bit awkward though. Even disregarding the fact pre-Qing dynasties never used that style of head-wear, even in the Qing dynasty it is more a tool to signify the importance of an individual bureaucrat than imperial authority. I would actually suggest replacing it with a maybe a Jade Seal icon, since while the Imperial Seal itself had been lost even before the time represented in EU4, the concept of its authority still lingers.

They unified all the goverment strength symbols to 'hat' symbols. Devotion icon for brief moment was book, but it was also changed to bishop's hat. Now you just look for the hat in top bar and know very quickly what's up ;)
 

Arkhis

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I suggest to replace the icon for mandate, it just not that proper. That hat is manchu type while traditional Chinese hat called "guan" is some how like Korean and Japanese traditional hat. Please replace it to something that Ming and Qing dynasty have in common. Maybe the forbidden city or "huabiao"— a symbol of absolute power of the emporer

The hat is for the Meritocracy mechanic though, not the mandate (which is a dragon, on the bottom right of the screen).
 

GaleBread

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They unified all the goverment strength symbols to 'hat' symbols. Devotion icon for brief moment was book, but it was also changed to bishop's hat. Now you just look for the hat in top bar and know very quickly what's up ;)
Ah I see, I never actually noticed the correlations between the government strength symbols until you pointed it out. Thanks.:)