EU4 - Development Diary - 28th January 2016

[Moac]

Trin buddy, is there a chance that you will ever add the Bosnian culture? Pretty pls.

As a Croat from Bosnia (Bosanac/Hrvat isto mi je), I would need to look deeper into historical Bosnian culture within the EU4 time-frame and what is different from Croatian culture at that time.
The Bosnjaks of modern BiH have their own traditions and culture , you could say, but within the game time-frame i do not see any large differences between Croats and Bosnian people.
To me they are the same people, regardless of religion.
This is how I feel about Bosnian/Croatian Culture etc.

 

[birch23]

I'm sorry but ø and æ is not used in southern Sweden. In Finland and Sweden we only use Å, Ä and Ö and the occasional ü for a few, few words.

Not to be nitpicking but I do think that the former Danish parts of Sweden (especially Skåne) used the Danish letters in the time frame EU4 operates,Stockholmization is a bit later..
Any way this is not the point,the point is that I would like to see the ability to use special letters (in the game) back.

 

[Tobiskaya]

Not to be nitpicking but I do think that the former Danish parts of Sweden (especially Skåne) used the Danish letters in the time frame EU4 operates,Stockholmization is a bit later..
Any way this is not the point,the point is that I would like to see the ability to use special letters (in the game) back.

I didn't think you meant in this timeframe. In that case Sweden used the '' Danish '' letters up untill the mid 1500's.

 

[Hypercynder]

No, no, no. All that i wrote there is historical correct provinces and it's borders. Paradoxs is using some todays borders and i'm strong against it. Thats why I wrote all that.

I see why , I wanted to do this but like it's out of eu4 theme , I can understand , but for new countries proposed by me , you're ok or there is ideas that I must change?

 

[Rooz]

I do like slovak being grouped with Hungary, but I think I'm at the point where I can't cope with some of the other cultural changes. I want Finno-Ugric group back, I will not accept that russian split nonsense, turkish culture should be on its own. Romanian and Hungarian grouping is preeeetty questionable. I guess it's modding time for me once 1.16 hits. Might as well get a closer look on the tatar cultures and maybe think about getting czech and lithuanian in different culture groups (german and east slavic respectively)

 

[DmUa]

The most logical thing now IMO is just to abandon slavic groups altogether. Rename south slavic in to balkan, east slavic in to russian, move silesian and czech to german and move polish to baltic. Voila. Im ready to "respectful disagrees" now'a.

 

[Moac]

The most logical thing now IMO is just to abandon slavic groups altogether. Rename south slavic in to balkan, east slavic in to russian, move silesian and czech to german and move polish to baltic. Voila. Im ready to "respectful disagrees" now'a.

The shitstorm that would emerge would of biblical proportions.
I know that you are joking , however, I wonder why people tend to have such a short fuse when discussing Slavic nations in general.

 

[Haydar]

I do like slovak being grouped with Hungary, but I think I'm at the point where I can't cope with some of the other cultural changes. I want Finno-Ugric group back, I will not accept that russian split nonsense, turkish culture should be on its own. Romanian and Hungarian grouping is preeeetty questionable. I guess it's modding time for me once 1.16 hits. Might as well get a closer look on the tatar cultures and maybe think about getting czech and lithuanian in different culture groups (german and east slavic respectively)

Or you can decide against updating to 1.16, which seems what I'll do.

 

[Atridij]

As a Croat from Bosnia (Bosanac/Hrvat isto mi je), I would need to look deeper into historical Bosnian culture within the EU4 time-frame and what is different from Croatian culture at that time.
The Bosnjaks of modern BiH have their own traditions and culture , you could say, but within the game time-frame i do see any large differences between Croats and Bosnian people.
To me they are the same people, regardless of religion.
This is how I feel about Bosnian/Croatian Culture etc.

I see the split as the Scandinavian cultures, people of similar stock which fractured by historical circumstances and loyalties to the "nation bearing Kingdoms". And Bosnian culture was more influenced by Byzantine remenant (culture, national script, court organization), creating a hybrid culture stuck between East and West. The national Church was a proto Protestant in it's nature, with secular local rulers having more to say than distant Vatican or Carigrad, Church of Bosnia collapsed when the nobility withdrew it's support and converted to Islam.

While the Croats under Maygars were completely Latinized, completely indistinguishable culture wise (minus the language) from their Catholic patrons. With Dalmatians becoming more Italianized while Slavonians became near-Hungarians, only semblance of "Croatian Croats" was around Zagorje.

While the time space of the game is perfectly set during the most important national events for Bosniaks, the last two Cursed Kings went after the Church of Bosnia causing massive unrest and collapse of eastern boarders to the Ottomans, the diplomatic balance between the Turks and the Latins, even after the Ottoman occupation the rise of Hamzii Islam which can be only described as "Protestant" Islam which marked some of the bloodiest chapter in Bosnia's history between Sunni Ottoman loyalists vs followers of Hamza Bošnjak... So much of our history and national heroes to be labeled as a nation we spent centuries warring against is simply ridiculous and insulting.

 

[DmUa]

The shitstorm that would emerge would of biblical proportions.
I know that you are joking , however, I wonder why people tend to have such a short fuse when discussing Slavic nations in general.

- im actually not joking. IMO it is a most logical thing now, seeing how Pdx started to mix cultures of different origins on the premise of geographical proximity. For example even thou south slavic first lost non slavic hungarians and now lost non slavic romanian, they still have left with non slavic albanians. And east slavic now has karelian as part of the group and most probably in release will also get uralic. IMo the most logical thing would be to rename those groups either on geographical principle ( as example - scandinavian, carpathian etc ) or on principle of most dominating "super culture" ( as example german, french etc ).

 

[pedrito_elcabra]

Granada still Andalusian culture, Andalusian still Iberian culture group.

I made a lengthy post a while ago, explaining why Granada should be the same culture group as Berbers.

Castile did historically do a culture conversion on these provinces.

Would be nice to see this in a future patch.

PS: The other changes look awesome

 

[Moac]

I see the split as the Scandinavian cultures, people of similar stock which fractured by historical circumstances and loyalties to the "nation bearing Kingdoms". And Bosnian culture was more influenced by Byzantine remenant (culture, national script, court organization), creating a hybrid culture stuck between East and West. The national Church was a proto Protestant in it's nature, with secular local rulers having more to say than distant Vatican or Carigrad, Church of Bosnia collapsed when the nobility withdrew it's support and converted to Islam.

While the Croats under Maygars were completely Latinized, completely indistinguishable culture wise (minus the language) from their Catholic patrons. With Dalmatians becoming more Italianized while Slavonians became near-Hungarians, only semblance of "Croatian Croats" was around Zagorje.

While the time space of the game is perfectly set during the most important national events for Bosniaks, the last two Cursed Kings went after the Church of Bosnia causing massive unrest and collapse of eastern boarders to the Ottomans, the diplomatic balance between the Turks and the Latins, even after the Ottoman occupation the rise of Hamzii Islam which can be only described as "Protestant" Islam which marked some of the bloodiest chapter in Bosnia's history between Sunni Ottoman loyalists vs followers of Hamza Bošnjak... So much of our history and national heroes to be labeled as a nation we spent centuries warring against is simply ridiculous and insulting.

I agree that peoples/cultures are influenced by others, obviously. However, that has always been the case and will continue to be so, there is no such thing as a pure-culture.
Moreover, saying that Croatian Croats only existed in Zagorje is something I take offense to and completely disagree with. Croats in Zagorje are as Croatian as those in Slavonia, Dalmatia and Bosnia. Croats lived in what is modern day Croatia & Bosnia for over a 1000 years, that is to say Croats came to the area and became the predominant people group, I am certain that even back then newly arrived Croats mixed with the local population and absorbed local traditions , Ideas as they intermingled.

When it comes to Bosnia I don´t see any differences , beside religion, between Croats and Bosnian people, even haplogroup studies show that both Croats & Bosnian are the same people.
Moreover, although Bosnia still is a majority Croatian ethnic nation , given that Muslims are mostly converts to Islam from their Croatian Christian roots and that Orthodox Vlachs & Serbs people came to Bosnia in the 17th century due to Ottoman persecutions. It can be said that Bosnia once was a Croatian land and continues to be given that Croats are one of the three constituent peoples in BiH.
If you can read Croatian, feel free to check this site out:
http://kamenjar.com/bosna-hrvatska-zemlja/
It shows the historic connection between Bosnia with Croatia, be it their rulers , language , traditions etc.

 

[DanubianCossak]

Must... resist... from... replying... Balkans...

Stay stronk Danu, you can do it.

 

[Moac]

Must... resist... from... replying... Balkans...

Stay stronk Danu, you can do it.

Can you hear that? The Balkan is calling , ring ring... ring ring. Wont you answer Danu?
http://ingridsundberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1382399_688730591969_1438156858_n.jpg

 

[zemuzil]

Actually none of that is true in the game. They're all separate cultures within a common culture group (none of the culture groups use the names you listed though). If you think everything inside a culture group is the same thing then you might as well say that the game consider Swedish = Danish or Castilian = Portuguese in 1.15.

So why lithuanians,prussians,ruthenians,belorussians arent a part of a common culture plc group ?

 

[Ternega]

So why lithuanians,prussians,ruthenians,belorussians arent a part of a common culture plc group ?

Presumably because all of those cultures are significantly dissimilar(1.15 logic) and never really stuck together over the course of eu4 (1.16 logic), that's one of the major reasons for commonwealths many issues thought their history after all.

 

[zemuzil]

Presumably because all of those cultures are significantly dissimilar(1.15 logic) and never really stuck together over the course of eu4 (1.16 logic), that's one of the major reasons for commonwealths many issues thought their history after all.

Just disimiliar like hungarians , vlachs and slovaks?

 

[Ternega]

Just disimiliar like hungarians , vlachs and slovaks?

Who did never the less stuck together (first under hungary, then under ottomans, then under new!hungary hehe) for the majority of eu4 era. From 1.15 logic I'd say that slovacks should be in the west slavic CU, but you know there is a little issue of them NOT EXISTING in 1.15, so it would be hard to represent.

Edit: In my opinion wallachians shourld be in south slavic and croatian in Carpathian for 1.16, but thats, in my opinion up to a quite heated debate.

 

[Metzelfetz]

Ireland now looks more after Ireland from Crusader Kings II. I'm looking forward to play Ireland in new condition.

 

[BrokenSky]

Actually none of that is true in the game. They're all separate cultures within a common culture group (none of the culture groups use the names you listed though). If you think everything inside a culture group is the same thing then you might as well say that the game consider Swedish = Danish or Castilian = Portuguese in 1.15.

Why is welsh in the British group? Surely it has more in common with Irish?
Tbh the continual shrinking of the celtic group makes me a little sad; it would be way better if you could move a culture from one group to another in game time (so breton and welsh could start out celtic and move over later?) but I suppose that would be hard to do without overhaulling the whole system?