EU4 - Development Diary - 28th January 2016

[Orctavius]

Just noticed Calias is now a straight.

Not a fan. With the current straight rules, England's wooden wall is effectively dead. You should not be able to invade England without besting the English navy first.

 

[War_lord]

Not a fan. With the current straight rules, England's wooden wall is effectively dead. You should not be able to invade England without besting the English navy first.

To cross from Calais to England without beating the English navy, you'd need to take Kent and hold it against the entire English Army, and then continue to hold it while invading the country or risk your entire army being trapped overseas.

 

[Orctavius]

To cross from Calais to England without beating the English navy, you'd need to take Kent and hold it against the entire English Army, and then continue to hold it while invading the country or risk your entire army being trapped overseas.

No, they will not be trapped overseas. If a hostile power foreign power owns or has seiged down Calais, they will be able to walk back and forth over the straight regardless of the presence of any ships.

 

[Zelius]

No, they will not be trapped overseas. If a hostile power foreign power owns or has seiged down Calais, they will be able to walk back and forth over the straight regardless of the presence of any ships.

*Only if they have occupied both sides of the strait.

Assuming England is competent in handling their fleet they shouldn't be able to land in the first place.

 

[War_lord]

No, they will not be trapped overseas. If a hostile power foreign power owns or has seiged down Calais, they will be able to walk back and forth over the straight regardless of the presence of any ships.

You need to control both ends of a straight to cross it without ship blocking. If England losses Calais, they can't deploy armies over the channel without transports, but the wooden wall still stands. In order to cross without facing the English navy, France or whoever would still need to control Kent, and if a hostile power controls Kent, England is screwed anyway. If anything England is buffed, because they can now deploy their entire home army to the continent by marching as long as they hold Calais. Which accurately portrays the strategic importance of Calais during the period.

 

[Mattew1488]

Despite I have already mentioned the word 'traditions', what do you think is a culture?
In my opinion, culture = traditions (including religion) + language

1) Traditions in Novgorod and Pskov (ELECTING own ruler) were different from Muscovian (where the ruller was a deputy from the Horde at the beginning of 1400s), and way different from Smolensk / Ryazan / Tver principalities (where ruler was a monarch, reflecting Kievan Rus traditions).
And I do not mention any other traditions like birth, wedding, burrial, war preparations, songs, etc.

You have probably been decieved.
1) Have you been to Krasnodar Kray and Kuban? Have you ever been to Tatarstan? Have you ever been to the Volga Region? Or to Vladivostok?
All these have unique traditions even now, and rather different cultural origins, as well.
BUT they all are living 'united culture' and call themselves Russians.
In the 21st century.

2) Have you been to France? Have you spoken with people calling themselves French?
I have rarely seen that a French calls himself as Gasconee or Norman or Occitans (Bretons were the most unique).
All non-nazi people in healthy mind call themselves French to foreigners.
Surely, many still remember their cultural origins, but French comes the first, and insert_French_culture_tag is the second.
In the 21st century.

3) Chinese are the best example where every cultural origin other than Han is humiliated.
Chinese are living in 'unified culture' now.
In the 21st century.

What a hell are you talking about? Every ruler of everyone of this states deputy from the horde, include famous Alexander Nevsky. This is a historical nonsense and russophobic insult what you wrote. Also started called Rus' as a Kievan is a soviet marxist historians, this is a nonsense too.

You can't compare Russia with France or China. In begun of 20th century China was a konglomerate of different states. France have "France language in all courts" because of really different dialectical and historical difference between its regions. Russian people really had some cultural differences, with Ruthenians (today's Ukrainians) or Belorussians, but not between Russian regions. Provence, Languedoc and other regions isn't divide from France like Ukraine and Belorussia from Russia.

If paradoxes wants to split Russia because of gameplay reasons, they should do this neutrally, something like north/central/south Russians, but not called them by the city names. It's ridiculous. Why Vladimir's people should be Muscovite? Why Pskovian people should be Novgorodian? It's sounds like Wessex have Londonian culture, or Leipzig have Berlinian culture. Why should they have it?

1) Traditions in Novgorod and Pskov (ELECTING own ruler)

Electing by WHO? By few hundreds boyars and merchants (and part of this boyars was loyal to Muscovy). And Pskov was a loyal ally of Muscovy, they beat Novgorodian traitors together.

 

[Agnitio Ex Mach]

Slovak culture

Were Slovaks even around this early on?

 

[Kapitalisti]

Assuming England is competent in handling their fleet they shouldn't be able to land in the first place.

That's a pretty big assumption for the AI. Nevertheless I'll waive my judgement until I see how this works out in practice. Now which would be a better place for a fort now, right at Kent or in the two adjoining provinces?

 

[Demetrios]

Always did though. I wonder will Cork represent the Earl of Desmond or McCarthy Mór. Will there be McDonnells in Ulster or Clandeboye?

I'm going to guess that Cork will represent the Earls of Desmond, since otherwise the Anglo-Irish lords will be represented solely by the Earls of Kildare (not counting the heavily Gaelicized Burkes, if that is them in Connacht). I'm also guessing that since Ulster isn't going to be English, they will instead be Clandeboye.

I assume that "Connacht" will represent the Mac William Burkes of Mayo, and "Sligo" will be the O'Connors. The rest of the states seem pretty self-explanatory...

 

[War_lord]

That's a pretty big assumption for the AI. Nevertheless I'll waive my judgement until I see how this works out in practice. Now which would be a better place for a fort now, right at Kent or in the two adjoining provinces?

Kent, you want to keep it from falling at any point, otherwise the entire enemy army will be able to deploy over the channel. Whereas if you have a high level fort in Kent, even if they manage to pull a Napoleonic "sneak your army across the channel while the RN is distracted" you can easily outnumber the landing force.

 

[nalivayko]

I second that. I feel that 20 EUR payed for Cossacks is not enough anymore. Where I can find "donate" button to keep you rewarded for doing good work?

My oh my. Read my thoughts. I was just thinking how I loved giving $80+ for EU3, $10 per DLC... $20 per Cossacks was a reminder than one can never be too happy. Thankfully, there is an extra 7.99 I can pay for Cossacks Content Pack. That's 27.99 I can give to show my appreciation.

(Thought I'd be the last person to diss DLC system.... I guess I am at that particular moment.)

 

[nalivayko]

...Russian people really had some cultural differences, with Ruthenians (today's Ukrainians) ...

That's a hard topic today... especially with some of us claiming to be both... let's leave it alone.

 

[DmUa]

Despite I have already mentioned the word 'traditions', what do you think is a culture?
In my opinion, culture = traditions (including religion) + language

- your opinion doesnt matter, sorry.

1) Traditions in Novgorod and Pskov (ELECTING own ruler) were different from Muscovian (where the ruller was a deputy from the Horde at the beginning of 1400s), and way different from Smolensk / Ryazan / Tver principalities (where ruler was a monarch, reflecting Kievan Rus traditions).
And I do not mention any other traditions like birth, wedding, burrial, war preparations, songs, etc.

- woot? First and foremost what ruling regimes have to do with common peoples cultures? Second, Moscow prince was not deputy of the horde he was a monarch inheriting throne by agnatic seniority rights just like anyone else in Rus, difference was that in lated date Moscovian pronces managed to secure yarlıq for themselves, in before them it princes of Vladimir, Suzdal and Tver who held yarliq. And yarliq itself barely ment that holders had obligations of gathering taxes for da horde. All other traditions that you mention but really dont, were mostly uniformal.

2) Languages (nationalists of the 18th-19th century called it 'a dialect') were also different in various regions. I think if a person using one language does not understand another person, it is another language. Surely in the 19th century everything was called 'a dialect' of the Great and the Mighty, but this was simply for political reason of uniting the Russian Empire.

- languages were... here were non... here were no uniformal russian language in that time. Things that you describe is indeed called dialect and every freaking city, town and village have one. Even thou here were no instances when ryazanian would not understand moscovit, because colloquial russian was uniformal, unlike say german... even today.

But if one is smart enough, he/she can make a parallel line and compare Russian with Ukrainian and Belorussian languages.
Both these were called 'dialects' since the 18th century, and were even proved to be so by many nationalistic scientist.

- one smart enough would not dive into 19 century nationalism when discussing "cultures" of 15 century.

However, when Russians encounter Belorussian and Ukrainian, they cannot understand pure language (without Russian words mixed-in).

- pure ukrainian lunguage doesnt exist even today, sad but truth. The only place were you can learn ukrainian is school, here are no places in ukraine were locals would speak in academical ukrainian naturally.

how can one be so sure that so called Old Novgorod Dialect was really 'a dialect'?

- wonderful logic. And how you can be sure that so called Old Novgorod Dialect are qualified to be not count not only as separate language but a separate culture too?

Every country has a unique history, but Russians have the most unique?

- no, but in case of culture yes, unlike France or Germany russian culture was mostly uniformal. Its not hard to understand.

I was talking about an approach on managing the situation with diverse traditions and languages that appeared to be in 1444.

- so you really in to unique culture for every province in the game? Radical.

You have probably been decieved.

- im not. I thought that Ua in mine nickname and pretty bad english would be enough to understand where am I from.

1) Have you been to Krasnodar Kray and Kuban? Have you ever been to Tatarstan? Have you ever been to the Volga Region? Or to Vladivostok?
All these have unique traditions even now, and rather different cultural origins, as well.
BUT they all are living 'united culture' and call themselves Russians.
In the 21st century.

- err... are you sure that you understand what you talking about? Krasnodar, Kuban and Tatarstan were conquered later in timeline they have nothing to do with discussed question.

2) Have you been to France? Have you spoken with people calling themselves French?
I have rarely seen that a French calls himself as Gasconee or Norman or Occitans (Bretons were the most unique).
All non-nazi people in healthy mind call themselves French to foreigners.
Surely, many still remember their cultural origins, but French comes the first, and insert_French_culture_tag is the second.
In the 21st century.

- "What they call France here is the land beyond the Loire, which to them is a foreign country."(c) Jean Racine 1662. And by your logic south france should be in entirelly different culture group because unlike russians they had completelly different language and different traditions due to their origins.

3) Chinese are the best example where every cultural origin other than Han is humiliated.
Chinese are living in 'unified culture' now.
In the 21st century.

- cool, but sadly have nothing to do with reality or with discussed question.

 

[celethiel]

What a hell are you talking about? Every ruler of everyone of this states deputy from the horde, include famous Alexander Nevsky. This is a historical nonsense and russophobic insult what you wrote. Also started called Rus' as a Kievan is a soviet marxist historians, this is a nonsense too.

You can't compare Russia with France or China. In begun of 20th century China was a konglomerate of different states. France have "France language in all courts" because of really different dialectical and historical difference between its regions. Russian people really had some cultural differences, with Ruthenians (today's Ukrainians) or Belorussians, but not between Russian regions. Provence, Languedoc and other regions isn't divide from France like Ukraine and Belorussia from Russia.

If paradoxes wants to split Russia because of gameplay reasons, they should do this neutrally, something like north/central/south Russians, but not called them by the city names. It's ridiculous. Why Vladimir's people should be Muscovite? Why Pskovian people should be Novgorodian? It's sounds like Wessex have Londonian culture, or Leipzig have Berlinian culture. Why should they have it?


Electing by WHO? By few hundred boyars and merchants (and part of this boyars was loyal to Muscovy). And Pskov was a loyal ally of Muscovy, they beat Novgorodian traitors together.

erm....Loyal ally isn't the word... Pskov was only a vassal to Moscovy due to the power of Moscovy's sword, they were invaded and told to obey, they WERE allied to Novogrod, who did Novogrod betray?

 

[MacDuffin]

There isn't anything to say that Scotland won't get extra provinces - this is the first DD for the patch after all. From Wiz's Twitter, there's a map showing new provinces in France and southern England, and from the Iceland tweet a week or so ago, it looks like the Highlands province has been divided in two (and some of the borders have moved around, but it's really hard to see exactly what has changed and if there are other new provinces). So who knows what may be brewing in Scotland for 1.16?

I've really got my fingers crossed that Madagascar will see some Ireland-type love here in an upcoming DD...

The highlands certainly looks split via this screenshot
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZAkZiyWMAAGMOV.png
I'd not be surprised if something good comes out of the highland culture, likely in a double edged sword, where they'll help against foreign intervention but cause issues in peace.
I thought it was weird they didn't have their own estates really, but maybe something even more different will come from this.

 

[Ashantai]

@grommile

That was my impression too, that it was changed in EU3 NI or there abouts to make Great Britain more cohesive.

I note for instance that Welsh remains in the English group, and Breton in the French.

 

[Shatterfury]

Were Slovaks even around this early on?

You are joking, right ?

 

[Zelius]

That's a pretty big assumption for the AI. Nevertheless I'll waive my judgement until I see how this works out in practice. Now which would be a better place for a fort now, right at Kent or in the two adjoining provinces?

I was sort of angling for a Naval game/AI improvement there , though exploiting AI weakness is almost the crux of the game.

 

[Topias]

As a Finn I'm naturally inclined to notice the removal of the Finno-Ugric culture group. I can see why this is done, since the group was fairly unpopular among players. However, when (or if) the change results in a situation where Finnish, Karelian and Estonian culture are all in different groups with no mutual acceptance, the result is definitely wonky. While I'm not an expert, I assume that the new split between Scottish and Highlander is similarly odd.

Perhaps the cultural acceptance mechanic has been changed to include some preset mutual acceptance over culture group borders?

 

[War_lord]

As a Finn I'm naturally inclined to notice the removal of the Finno-Ugric culture group. I can see why this is done, since the group was fairly unpopular among players. However, when (or if) the change results in a situation where Finnish, Karelian and Estonian culture are all in different groups with no mutual acceptance, the result is definitely wonky. While I'm not an expert, I assume that the new split between Scottish and Highlander is similarly odd.

The Scottish Highlanders were actually substantially different in terms of culture from the Lowlanders. Lowlanders were heavily Anglicised much much sooner then the Highlanders.