EU4 - Development Diary - 28th January 2016

[Kiyant]

Great Culture changes. Ottoman Turkish is much closer to Arabic than Turkmen in any case.

Not really because Ottoman Turkish is much more similar to Persian or Farsi.
Also Turkmen,Azeri and Turkish are highly understandable to each other.
Even Ottomans never understood Arabic.

 

[Canute VII]

Ireland -> why should a remote island on the fringe of Europe get nine (9!!!) provinces when Sicily gets only three (3!!!) - ???

 

[Shatterfury]

What ???
Turkey part of the Arabic group ???

Isn`t that too OP ????

I say put them with the Persians.

Ireland -> why should a remote island on the fringe of Europe get nine (9!!!) provinces when Sicily gets only three (3!!!) - ???

So it`s much harder to subdue, we have development to represent the overall wealth and population of the place.

 

[wizardlich]

I got too say just from the small tid bit that has been shown to us with this dev diary post i'm looking forward to the new game mechanics for 1.16

 

[FleetingRain]

Sorry but this would be a horrble idea - tying anything permanent to the gambling of mission system seems downright awful. You could always do it with an event, but thats just walking in circles.

Any Ottoman player/AI takes that mission before the first century and it will get even more common now that they changed the requisites.

 

[rayyuri]

We also made a complete overhaul of how cultures work to remove the ties to language, and tie them more together to similar cultures, to create more historically plausible countries and relations.

I don't quite understand the logic. Isn't language the most important part (at least one of the most important parts) in comparing the similarity of cultures? Similar language seems to be the #1 factor for assimilation.

 

[YuriiH]

- culture != language. By that approach you can justify giving every province in the game its own culture.

Despite I have already mentioned the word 'traditions', what do you think is a culture?
In my opinion, culture = traditions (including religion) + language

1) Traditions in Novgorod and Pskov (ELECTING own ruler) were different from Muscovian (where the ruller was a deputy from the Horde at the beginning of 1400s), and way different from Smolensk / Ryazan / Tver principalities (where ruler was a monarch, reflecting Kievan Rus traditions).
And I do not mention any other traditions like birth, wedding, burrial, war preparations, songs, etc.

2) Languages (nationalists of the 18th-19th century called it 'a dialect') were also different in various regions. I think if a person using one language does not understand another person, it is another language. Surely in the 19th century everything was called 'a dialect' of the Great and the Mighty, but this was simply for political reason of uniting the Russian Empire.

But if one is smart enough, he/she can make a parallel line and compare Russian with Ukrainian and Belorussian languages.
Both these were called 'dialects' since the 18th century, and were even proved to be so by many nationalistic scientist.

However, when Russians encounter Belorussian and Ukrainian, they cannot understand pure language (without Russian words mixed-in).
Are those both dialects indeed? In this case, how can one be so sure that so called Old Novgorod Dialect was really 'a dialect'?

Because russian history is different from french.

Every country has a unique history, but Russians have the most unique?
I was talking about an approach on managing the situation with diverse traditions and languages that appeared to be in 1444.

- none of those who you mentioned are living in "united culture"

You have probably been decieved.
1) Have you been to Krasnodar Kray and Kuban? Have you ever been to Tatarstan? Have you ever been to the Volga Region? Or to Vladivostok?
All these have unique traditions even now, and rather different cultural origins, as well.
BUT they all are living 'united culture' and call themselves Russians.
In the 21st century.

2) Have you been to France? Have you spoken with people calling themselves French?
I have rarely seen that a French calls himself as Gasconee or Norman or Occitans (Bretons were the most unique).
All non-nazi people in healthy mind call themselves French to foreigners.
Surely, many still remember their cultural origins, but French comes the first, and insert_French_culture_tag is the second.
In the 21st century.

3) Chinese are the best example where every cultural origin other than Han is humiliated.
Chinese are living in 'unified culture' now.
In the 21st century.

 

[aahron]

Not really because Ottoman Turkish is much more similar to Persian or Farsi.
Also Turkmen,Azeri and Turkish are highly understandable to each other.
Even Ottomans never understood Arabic.

Despite the language similarities, I don't see the Azeri, Turkish and Turkmen cultures as the same, since the former two populations were largely subject to language replacements but remained culturally distinct. As an Azeri, I would strongly argue that Azeris form a group with other Caucasian nations culturally exhibiting similar traditions and values.

 

[Ternega]

Every country has a unique history, but Russians have the most unique?

And this is where I can no longer take you seriously.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

I wonder will wales get a third province?

If cornwall can get two then wales can atleast nab powys as a province >.> I was going to do either a wales or cornwall game in this playthrought but I might wait till the map rework.

Also wish I could rename cornwall to either its Cornish spell or even dunmonia because why not

 

[Angeleyed]

So Hungary got kievan rebels now

My bet is this new number on the top bar are partisans you may send to start revolts.

 

[guachi]

If you're going to put Turkish in the same group as Arabic you might as well put English in the same group as French. It'd make as much sense. But I'm with basically everyone else who has commented about it - it's just a bad idea.

 

[Angeleyed]

The Turks should have a unique mechanic like religious centers to slowly convert provinces to Turkish culture. No need for a culture group.

 

[Ternega]

The Turks should have a unique mechanic like religious centers to slowly convert provinces to Turkish culture. No need for a culture culture group.

Errr... Why?

 

[Ashantai]

I notice Highland Scottish is back in the Celtic group, hasn't it been in the English group for a long time now?

 

[grommile]

I notice Highland Scottish is back in the Celtic group, hasn't it been in the English group for a long time now?

Highland stopped being an in-game culture distinct from lowland Scottish round about the time EU3 came out.

It has apparently been reinstated.

I don't quite understand the logic. Isn't language the most important part (at least one of the most important parts) in comparing the similarity of cultures? Similar language seems to be the #1 factor for assimilation.

Hungarian is a Uralic language, like Finnish, Permic, and Sami.

Hungarian culture in 1444 was quite distant from the culture of any of the other Uralic-speaking peoples.

 

[Haydar]

Despite the language similarities, I don't see the Azeri, Turkish and Turkmen cultures as the same, since the former two populations were largely subject to language replacements but remained culturally distinct. As an Azeri, I would strongly argue that Azeris form a group with other Caucasian nations culturally exhibiting similar traditions and values.

Agree to some extend, but how about the southern Azeris who currently live in Iran? I feel like Azeri's have more in common with the Persians in culture than the highlanders of the north. Of course I can't comment from first hand as you do.

 

[Ilightmaster]

Just add a cultural threehold modifier to russian (/moscovite) ideas?

 

[Angeleyed]

Errr... Why?

Because "Turkish culture" isn't a thing in 1444. It occurred afterwards when they decided to settle, unite and form an empire. They adopted things from Greeks, Caucasians, Arabs and Persians to create the Ottoman Turkish culture.

(To save you a post let me answer it in advance, No one cares about the Turkish steppe history and the first thing that comes to mind when talking about Turks is the Ottoman Empire and Istanbul)

I want the ottomans buffed, but making them Arabs is beyond stupid.

 

[demoix]

I just come to said - you guys are the best game development team in the world. I don't know any other companies who mutch care about theirs current games. And paradox do not let EU4 to die. After day after 1.15 I saw dev diary for 1.16 and I was just OMG. You trying to listen to community and make community wishes come true. Thank you again for your job paradox EU4 team