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Hello, and welcome to a new era of EU4 development, where we’ll have development diaries talking about what we are doing almost every week.

One of the criticism we’ve had regarding EU4, have been that the game has always premiered conquest, and if you didn’t expand, you fell behind. In the next major update, you’ll be able to make an empire that is more focused on tall than on wide. After all, it is just common sense of us to listen to what the community is requesting.

Most of you are familiar with the concept of base tax. This permeates the game at so many fundamental levels, with everything from forcelimits to coring costs being coupled to this. We also had a value in a province that was called manpower. Trade-Goods produced was arcanely connected to the basetax, and there is not a single human being that could calculate how much manpower in a province actually

Now we have 3 separate values in a province called Base Tax, Base Production & Base Manpower.

Base Tax affects your monthly tax income as before, and also increases your defence against hostile spies.

Base Production impacts the amount of trade-goods produced in the province, and how quickly ships gets build in the province.

Each level of base manpower increased your nations maximum manpower by 250, and also impacts the garrison growth in the province, and how quickly regiments is recruited in that province.

All of them together is called “Development”, which describes how heavily populated and built up the province is. Each level of development increases the supply limit, forcelimits for your armies and navies and makes it harder to converts its religion.

Finally, the development level also allows you to be able to build more buildings in that province.

Wait?

What am I talking about here? Well, first of all, we have reduced the amount of possible buildings, as a large part were fillers. Secondly, we removed the power-cost for building buildings. And finally, not every province can have the same amount of buildings. Currently, a province can have 1 building as default, with some terrains like desert or mountains reducing it by 1, and some increasing it, like farmlands. And, every 10 development allows another building slot in a province. So Paris may be able to have 6 buildings in 1444, while Figuig can not support a single building.




Now you say that we haven’t really talked that much about wide versus tall, but bear with me.

You will be able to spend adm, dip or mil power to increase base tax, production and manpower respectively in a province, where of course the cost keep increasing, but if you dream about a 20 base tax Dublin, then you can do that :) Doing this in deserts or arctic climate is far more expensive than doing it in better climates. The ideas that affected build power costs, now affects the cost of improving your province. There is also technologies that decrease the cost of improving development in the later half of the game.

SgIW348.jpg


Here’s the example of a few buildings in the game.

Marketplace - Dip4 - +2 Trade Power - 50 gold
Barracks - Mil 6 - +25% Manpower - 50 gold
Cathedral - Adm 19 - +3% Missionary Strength & +40% Tax Income - 200 gold
Stock Exchange - Dip 22 - +100% Trade Power - 400 gold
Town Hall -Adm 22 -5 Local Unrest - 400 g

Next week, we’ll talk a little about something that fits England very well..
 

LiberiusX

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It's about damn time. It only took 20 months for the developers to listen to these complaints. I haven't dropped a nickel on this game unless I've been able to get a steal. I hope this "major update" is what many of us have been kicking and screaming for for over a year and a half.
 
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ero_sk

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The mechanism is in place already -- it's MP. It takes MP to conquer and absorb provinces; it also takes MP to develop provinces.

The problem with the old building system is that it primary took gold to develop provinces; there was an MP cost, but unless you developed tons of provinces, it wasn't all that substantial (so you develop only your rich accepted culture same religion provinces and occasionally specific others). So, a big nation could develop a handful of provinces even easier than a small nation could.

Under the system Johan describes, gold costs are gone for base development (removing the advantage of large, wealthy nations). The MP requirement will increase as you develop further, so a big nation that's spending lots of MP taking and absorbing provinces won't be able to also develop those provinces much.

Balanced properly, on average it should be the case that spending MP developing internally has comparable costs to expansion.

Of course there's tons of variables here. Starting province value is critical, as is number of building slots. If the MP costs never stop increasing, you'll reach a point where it makes no sense to invest further in a province, which means eventually a tall state will need to conquer a province or two to continue building up. If the MP costs start out really small, a wide nation could just do light development on all provinces and maybe get a better return on investment from the MP.

It's all going to depend on the tuning. And that may take a couple patches (so, if you're waiting for this to resume playing EU4 -- don't, it likely won't work super great at first anyway, so you might be waiting a long time).

Yeah I'm aware of the MP cost but that doesn't change the point I'm trying to make. Once again- simple comparison. Country A is small and highly developed thus considered as rich and stable. Lets assume it consists of 10 provinces, all quite highly developed. Now take a look at country B- the big player. 50 provinces blob unable to highly develop all its provinces. It's (player or AI- doesn't matter) rulers had been focusing only on development of the centre, i.e. capital and surroundings. 10 provinces had been highly developed- same as in case of country A. So country B is now taking advantage of having 10 developed provinces and 40 quite poor provinces- but those 40 province are still making some value! This means that country B is still in way better position unless- and I want to point it clearly, unless developers are already working on some mechanism to benefit nations which have all provinces highly advanced. Because this is how we can say if a country is overall highly advanced- if all/majority of its provinces is advanced.

I hope there will be something to represent overall advancement of a country.

Regards

LiberiusX well at least after todays april fools joke they can't deny they're not aware of people asking for improved internal affairs ;)
 

3ishop

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depending on the value of those extra provinces then yes they could be balanced. Player B will have much less development then A due to the cost of taking those provinces.

The way I view it isn't to make it the same as expanding but to make expanding slowly and remaining concentrated is more viable.
 
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WhiskyGlen

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One thing I hate about a likes/dislikes system is that no one ever defends their "dislike." Why on Earth would people here not want more diplomats? It doesn't add to the game having very few diplomats. It is an annoyance and not some "this is a great strategic decision making moment." As I posted on the suggestions board, I would have unlimited diplomats for instantaneous things like sue for peace, royal marriage, trade embargo, etc (albeit still a 30 day delay for diplomatic actions with the same nation), and then "special" diplomats that would be limited like now. Use them for improve relations, annex vassel, integrate personal union, etc. I would also have either unlimited diplomats for fabricate claim, or else a third type of diplomat that is exclusively for fabricate claims. Why? Because fabricating claims is tedious, time consuming, they expire, and they are annoying. Or perhaps the first claim fabrication requires one of the limited diplomats, but any additional fabrication of claims can be automated and not use another diplomat.
 
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Maeki

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Hmm if the cost of coring territory increase with development does that mean that by developing a province and stacking coring cost increases would it become impossible to core? (e.g. cost goes over 999). You can already get 250% core cost increase quite easily as like Bohemia with aristocracy and diplomatic defense act I imagine if you had a province any better than paris combined with those the cost could go to 1000 quite easily. That would be so funny to do to your capital in multiplayer. No one would ever attack you.

The maximum coring cost for western nations (I am not sure about the other ones) is 999 monarch points. Even if the coring cost should be mathematically higher it will only cost you 999 MP.
 
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Will Steel

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Awaiting eagerly for the next patch. Just bought a shiny, expensive new rig, and I am waiting for this patch so that there is a point in reinstalling this game in these busy RL times. :D

Does anyone know when is this patch coming out? I am a peaceful player who likes to play minors/medium powers, so this may be a great patch for me.
 
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thErgonomic

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So let me get this straight. We'll be able to develop our provinces and we don't have to folllow a build track anymore, but well essentialy lose all the unique buildings and manufactories. Either completely or with severly diminished replacements. I couldn't imagine that they'd let us build a university as it is in everyone of our provinces. That to be honest sounds terrible.
 

Riekopo

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So this will allow you to play as a small. but powerful nation? If so that's awesome. I don't like painting the map my color because the game becomes too boring. I'm a bit concerned though. Will large nations also be able to upgrade their provinces and therefore be wide and tall at the same time?
 

ChildeR

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So this will allow you to play as a small. but powerful nation? If so that's awesome. I don't like painting the map my color because the game becomes too boring. I'm a bit concerned though. Will large nations also be able to upgrade their provinces and therefore be wide and tall at the same time?
Since upgrading development levels costs monarch points, which large nations have used on coring/annexing etc., they won't be able to stand as tall.
 
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Dorevai

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I'm really excited for this concept. It will totally change how I rule the world with Venice, and actually make my merchant republic +% goods produced thing super relevant since I won't have to take as many provinces directly.

Pls to make slightly more advanced merchant republic kthx? Maybe give an idea or policy that has the effect of goods produced in regions I trade?
 

blackchoas

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This is great news, personally when I play I enjoy carving out a little empire for myself but I often do not like going full blob and this allows one to once they have carved out their little piece of the world to do something else with it instead

I would be interested in comparisons of how much you can gain via investment/developement rather than conquest for the comparable MP totals, previously it was noted that growing via non-overseas colonization was a little too easy and was messed around with and I wonder if this could be something comparable, and while I disagree with the original assessment of non-overseas colonization, I hope this will come out balanced. There is also time frames to consider, conquest you must go through the war, the coring process, deal with any rebellions, and finally bring the autonomy down to 0, how long will it take to develop your capital? are there any issues that come up in the process?
 

FreeSoc

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[...] well essentialy lose all the unique buildings and manufactories. Either completely or with severly diminished replacements. [...]

Has there been any actual indication that manufactories will be removed instead of just becoming a kind of building that you can build? Or that the unique buildings will be eliminated? (They don't really seem like the "fillers" slated for elimination in the OP, as they're, well, unique.) Or are you just jumping to conclusions?


One thing that I'd like to see is tag-specific special buildings, which give a certain bonus to the country in addition to a flat +yearly prestige bonus common to all of them. For example, France might be able to build the Arc de Triomphe at some point in the late game (providing a military bonus of some sort - maybe reduced war exhaustion), Muscovy might be able to build the Kremlin (fort defence), the Papal State might be able to build St. Peter's (missionary strength/diplomatic reputation), the Ottomans might be able to build the Topkapi (legitimacy), and so on and so on. To provide a little bit of variety from tag to tag. (Arguably it'd also be interesting to try and collect other countries' special buildings after they've built them, even if you lose the bonuses for other tags' special buildings.)
 

Golladan

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Has there been any actual indication that manufactories will be removed instead of just becoming a kind of building that you can build? Or that the unique buildings will be eliminated? (They don't really seem like the "fillers" slated for elimination in the OP, as they're, well, unique.) Or are you just jumping to conclusions?
Unique buildings (1 per nation with global bonuses) were confirmed removed when this diary was originally posted in the old forums.
 
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pusty

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Well, this is going to be nice for some roleplaying. But imagine Venice or Genoa spamming MP advancing their capital. Those incomes could be quite scary...
 

FreeSoc

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Unique buildings (1 per nation with global bonuses) were confirmed removed when this diary was originally posted in the old forums.

Oh, I had no idea. That's something of a shame. Thanks for letting me know.
 
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ChildeR

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Has there been any actual indication that manufactories will be removed instead of just becoming a kind of building that you can build? Or that the unique buildings will be eliminated? (They don't really seem like the "fillers" slated for elimination in the OP, as they're, well, unique.) Or are you just jumping to conclusions?

As Golladan wrote above, unique buildings were confirmed to be removed, but AFAIK nothing's been said about manufactories. I would think they will work like any other building now, but that's just a guess.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there's something that in effect replaces unique buildings – universities in particular have a rather significant balance effect due to some nations starting with one.