EU4 - Development Diary - 26th of October 2021

Hello everyone, and be welcome! In today’s DD we are going to take a look at different topics of the Origins Immersion Pack, and 1.32 patch: the new Judaism mechanics, more new mission trees all along Africa, and the setup changes we’ve done to the region. So, it will be content-heavy, then.

Let’s start with the new Judaism mechanics. It was one major religion lacking mechanics at this point of the game, so we thought that now it would be a good moment to handle it. Semien is the only country that can spawn with Judaism early game, while it can also be adopted by one of the most important countries in Origins, Ethiopia. And on a side note, as it was HEAVILY requested by you in the previous DD, we were reassured that the work would be appreciated!

How we have designed it, Judaism works very similar to Protestantism, as it has 3 slots for Torah Aspects, each one costing 100 points of Faith Power. Those points are gained at a rate of 10% of your monarch points per month, minus a modifier depending on your religious unity.

Jewish Semien.jpg


Torah Aspects are split into three categories (Administrative, Diplomatic, and Military), and each category has 3 slots to choose from, giving your country some benefits and modifiers, that are fully shown in a tooltip if you hover over them:

ADM Aspects unlock the use of the ‘Celebrate Festival’ button, which has different effects depending on the ADM Aspect you have chosen. The ‘Celebrate Festival’ action costs 200 Faith Power. The three aspects give you following modifiers:
  • -2 National Unrest modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives +1 Stability.
  • -5% Technology Cost modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives +20 Reform Progress, +5 Legitimacy (or equivalent), and +5 Claim Strength of Heir.
  • -0.5 Interest Per Annum modifier, and using ‘Celebrate Festival’ gives 0.3 Years of Income, and reduces Inflation by 1.

ADM Aspect.jpg


DIP Aspects manipulate the relations your people have with the Abrahamic religions and vice versa. Each aspect gives a passive bonus as well as their modifiers:
  • +2 Tolerance of the True Faith, all Jewish Provinces have no culture penalties.
  • +2 Tolerance of Heathens, all Christian and Muslim provinces have no effect on the Religious Unity of your country.
  • -10% Development Cost, all Non-Theocratic Christian and Muslim countries gain +35 Opinion of you.

DIP Aspect.png


MIL Aspects modify the military strength of the country and affect the generation of Faith Power. The modifiers are the following:
  • -15% Land Attrition, during war you get +10% (20% in defensive wars) Manpower Recovery Speed and +5% (10% in defensive wars) Faith Power
  • +25% Fort Defense, gain +2 Siege Progress if you siege your own fallen forts, gain +15 Faith Power for every occupied enemy fort
  • +5% Land and Navy Morale, winning battles decreases War Exhaustion by 0.05, winning wars gives +50 Faith Power

MIL Aspect.jpg


On top of that, we have created a set of new flavor events for Jewish countries. Some of their topics are the reconstruction of the Third Temple, making the ruler choose some things during Sabbath, Abrahamic religions converting to Judaism, and about the figure of the Messiah as their topics. Others are centered around the celebrations, so you can have a proper Bar Mitzvah for your heir, and 3 celebrations around the year: Pesach, Shavuot, and Sukkot.

Third Temple event.jpg


Pesach Event.jpg


Now let’s take a look at the setup changes we’ve done for 1.32, along with some more new mission trees. Here we’ve got 4 new regional mission trees (West Africa, Central Africa, Horn of Africa, and East Africa), so every country in Sub-Saharan Africa will have either a mission tree specific to them, or one of the new regional trees, and we’ve also added 5 more ‘minor’ mission trees (Jolof, Mossi, Hausa, Oyo and Adal), as we had some extra development time, and we decided that more content would be best. So, let’s go region by region, then.

Setup West Africa.jpg


In West Africa we’ve made a few changes. From west to east, Macina is no longer a starting country. However, it can spawn as a revolter after Fulani culture expands to the provinces of Termes, Wagadu and Baghena (at game start, in northern Mali and SW Timbuktu), and it can also be formed by a country with Fulani culture (Great Fulo, for instance). Then we have divided the former Mossi tag into three new ones: Yatenga, Wagadugu and Fada N’Gourma. We could have created more, but we decided to use the same criteria as for Hausan countries, to not have too many OPM’s in the region. Finally, we have created the Wadai Emirate at the east of Lake Chad and Yao. Our intention here is to have a continuum of inhabited provinces from the Atlantic to the Indian Oceans, after both Great Fulo and Funj spawn by event, portraying the traditional trade route of Darfur corridor.

All countries in this region without a specific mission tree will have a new, generic one. It has 3 different paths, a military one, other economic, and the third one religious. The first two are linked so you have to complete missions in both branches to advance to the final missions on the tree, having as their main objective to assert your country as the powerhouse in West Africa. Meanwhile, the third mission set is in reality two, as Islamic and Fetishist countries will have different paths; Muslims will aim to impose their faith as the only one in the region, while Fetishists will aim to establish a syncretic traditional religion in their country.

West Africa missions.jpg


Now let’s take a look at the minor mission trees we added in this region. The first one is for Jolof. The first two columns are about pushing Mali out of West Africa, replacing them and establishing an empire there. Additionally, you also aim to contact the Europeans and make a deal with them. Apart from that, we wanted to portray their specific government form, with Jolof being ‘primus inter pares’ of some smaller kingdoms. Because of that, they now have a unique government reform to represent the kingdom confederacy Jolof used to be, so now these ‘petty kingdoms’ are three ‘estate privileges', which represent the decentralization of Jolof. The third column in the mission tree requests you to centralize by taking certain privileges. Centralizing the state requires you to have at least 2 stability and a lot of estate loyalty with the chieftains. If you centralize you will automatically lose one stab and a good chunk of estates loyalty.


Jolof.png

Jolof Privilege 1.png
Jolof Privilege 2.png
Jolof Privilege 3.png


For the Mossi states, we have a common mission tree for the three countries, but also for the Mossi tag if you are able to form it by decision. Their mission focus is pretty straight forward: Conquer West Africa! The "Invade" missions will immediately loot important cities and give you all of its gold.

Mossi.png


Forming Mossi will trigger one event later on and add two missions to your tree about their government form. Unlike Jolof's Confederacy, the Mossi Confederal Kingdom is more beneficial. It gives you access to the Tribal Federation mechanic if you have Cradle of Civilization and unlocks a bunch of new decisions for you too. The effects of the decisions are not instant however, as they will always take about 6 months before being in effect. In addition, you have to ‘pay’ in legitimacy and local autonomy. Finally, completing the ‘Centralize the Confederacy’ mission allows you to break out of this government reform or reinforce it even more through an event choice.

Mossi 1.png
Mossi 2.png
Mossi 3.png


Hausan missions have the same scope as the Mossi ones, so you can have them as one of their starting countries, or if you form the Hausa tag. They are about the conquest of the other Hausa states. ‘Unite the Cities’ requires you to be either Hausa or Sokoto. To get help with the early phase you can request militaristic aid from allies through the mission ‘Form Alliances"’. Hausa's mission ‘Develop the Cities’ revolves around the 7 cities which were founded by the 7 different Hausa rulers. Completing this mission will give every one of these 7 cities a unique province modifier for 10 years, reflecting the history and role of these cities. ‘Resolve Internal Issues’ will enable a decision for you, which allows you to get these bonuses for these 7 cities every 20 years again. ‘Contact with the Fulani’ triggers an event for you, which makes Fulani into an accepted culture. Through this you are allowed to form Sokoto, and then it will replace the fourth column with three missions, which are about the Jihad in West Africa. The last reward for converting all the provinces to Islam is a permanent +2 Tolerance of True Faith and -0.5% Prestige Decay.

Hausa 1.png

Hausa 2.png


Finally we have the Oyo mission tree. First column is about their historical usage of cavalry. As such you are encouraged to trade with the Muslims. After that you unlock a special mercenary company for them. The mission ‘Chaaaarge!!’ will disable the Army Professionalism cost from this cavalry merc company. The remaining columns are about pushing the Muslims out of West Africa and becoming the dominant power of there. Oyo is also the defender of the Fetishistic faith (though not really a defender, but you get the idea). As such, the province Ife has gained a specific bonus. Oyo's missions are also special in their requirements, as they allow progress through tributaries too! It’s done through a special government reform which allows you to do that. Then, the mission ‘Reform the Government’ will unlock an estate privilege which allows tributaries even if they are no longer a tribal country. It should be noted that if you revoke the privilege at any time your tributaries will break free, so use this one with caution.

Oyo 1.png

Oyo 2.png
Oyo 3.png
Oyo 4.png
Oyo 5.png


Now let’s move to Congo and Central Africa. Here we felt comfortable with the setup, as it allows a diverse gameplay with different countries, with Kongo as the main powerhouse, as you already know. What we’ve done is adding a new mission tree for the other countries in both regions. They are mainly in three branches. In the war/economic branch, you start preparing for war, and the idea is that at first it’s used to boost your economy, through raiding. This is represented with a mission requiring you to have multiple war reparations. Once you are able to maintain and train a proper army you start expanding to the point of becoming the military power of the region (with a mission requiring you to have the biggest army around), and then you can progress to become an empire. The second branch is diplomatic. It starts by getting strong allies to secure your position (the mission actually requires for them to be strong, or being either Kongo, Kilwa or Mutapa), then gaining the trust of the allies, then once your position is secure you turn to aggressive diplomacy with the missions requiring you to have vassals and then (tied to the war path too) going to a point of inflicting a crushing blow to a rival to humiliate them (which is in itself a requirement for becoming an empire). The third branch is the religious one. You first start as a fetishist gathering pokem... I mean, cults, and then the idea is that you get in contact with the Muslim countries (tied to the alliances missions of the diplomacy branch) from whom you can get valuable info. Then, it's just expanding your religion, first by going to war against any country that borders you but is not your religion, and then by having to convert provinces.

Central Africa.png


Then we have the Horn of Africa. Here we have added another new tag, Ogadeen, portraying the Somali clans that inhabit that space. This regional mission tree revolves around religious clashes. Your aim is to conquer and convert the heathens, uniting the tags of your faith, and become the main power of the region. After completing the final mission of those branches, ‘Save the Horn’, you will get the permanent modifier ‘The Holy Horn’, giving you +50% Religious Unity in reward for your efforts. In parallel to that, you’ve got some missions with an economic scope, that aims at your country being the main trade power in the Indian Ocean.

Horn of Africa.png


In the same region we have the last ‘minor’ mission tree, that of Adal. Their missions are mostly focused on giving Ethiopia a real fight to deal with. This is especially emphasized by a mission reward early on, ‘Restore the Old Mosque’, that is about the mosque Masjid al-Qiblatayn in Zeila, one of the oldest mosques in Africa; so, developing Zeila will give you a great Mosque there. ‘Reach the Turks’ is about establishing relations with the Ottomans. This mission can be completed by having any kind of regiment at the coast of the Mediterranean or in a province held by a Turkish country. It will trigger an event chain, not limited to the Ottomans, as it will seek out for the strongest Turkish power in Anatolia, that will eventually give some Janissary mercenaries; should there be no Turkish power at all in Anatolia in the rare occasion that the wet dream of a Byzantophile comes true, then Adal will ask Mamluks for help instead, unlocking the Mamluks mercs instead of the Janissaries. The rest of the mission tree is pretty straight-forward: unite the Somali clans, eliminate Ethiopia, convert the Horn of Africa, and get a connection to West Africa.

Adal 1.png

Adal 2.png
Adal 3.png
Adal 4.png


Let’s finish with the East Africa mission tree. Here we have focused on trade, regional expansion and strategic one in trade ports as main focuses. The objective is, obviously, becoming a great power (who would have noticed that regarding EU4!). However, one of the last missions of the tree is a funny one, as you’ll be aiming at reversing the trade visit that Zheng He made to the region a few decades ago, establishing a strong trade presence in the Chinese region trade ports.

East Africa.png


Zheng He Reversed.png


So that’s all for today, which I think is a lot, as we covered a bunch of very different content all across the continent. Actually, this is the last DD delivered from CD Team, as the next DD’s before release will be focusing on the new Art in Origins Immersion Pack, the new Achievements we’ve created, and the changelog (be prepared for it, as it will have hundreds of fixes that will go live with 1.32 patch, literally!). As always, your feedback will be appreciated; just be civil, and take into account that some numbers may be tweaked before release. See you!
 

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Will there be an on_action for when a torah aspect is chosen? Great to see judaism finally getting mechanics!

Also on the topic of religion, for native reformable religions like mayan, would it be possible to separate the reform mechanics from the transport-only navies that primitives get? I ask because there have been several attempts in anbennar development to take advantage of religion reform for non-natives, but the lack of a navy has prevented their implementation. Currently there is one line of moddable code that adds reforms and takes away navies: "religious_reforms = yes". If this could be split into "religious_reforms = yes" and "primitive_navies = yes", that would open up a lot of possibilities for the mod community given how customizable religious reforms are otherwise. All the idiosyncrasies of native reforms can be overcome except for the navies.
 
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@Pavía @Ogele - and other Dev's involved with this update,
Up front, know that this comment is ultimately about Ethiopia primarily, and the current default starting Religion for that nation, which is paramount to discuss considering your rework of Africa.

While you Paradox Dev's have received mostly positive comments and praise for the Judaism religion build, I want to offer you a Divergent view in perspective of this update to the game:

- Your work on Judaism and the resultant flexibility to make use of the perks/buffs from that religion, combined with the way all other religions mostly work in terms of gameplay, have all collectively revealed just how limiting a Coptic religion game start is within EU4.

Bear with me, this is about PROCESS or Systems Engineering of the religion's benefits, the perks or buffs and "how to get them."

If you have never thought of this before, your portrayal of the Coptic religion amounts to: A Mission Tree.
Coptic Faith is a Provincial-conquering system, much like a Mission Tree. And only a Mission Tree without flexibility as to how/where/why you get perks and buffs.
Whereas, most all other faiths simply require the game to progress and build up power in multiple, diverse ways that has no requirement to gain Provinces (especially not Key Provinces).
Examples:
- Catholic: improve relations with Papal State = higher rate to get buffs, pay into system for favor, do events for Cardinal (even if nefarious), gain more provinces (an option as contrast, not mandatory) and then more provinces w/more total Development in cumulative total gets better odds for Cardinals and buffing pace. Point is, multiple options/paths to gain buffs, and I didn't even mention all for this religion. And several other religions also have this multi-pronged approach.

But the Coptic faith? Is this the right way to present a religion in EU4, and is this the best way to play-through as that religion? Coptic faith results in a very limited approach, with the hope that one conquers on just the right pathway (just like working a Mission Tree). You don't need to do that with most any other faith - you simply need to survive and grow your stats in various ways (depending on your strengths at the time) to mature your religion's buffs.

My opinion, this upcoming game release has totally forgotten about the default Ethiopia Coptic faith, and you totally missed an opportunity to overhaul the Coptic Religion into a more universally useful religion in line with the other religions that don't need Mission Tree type progress to "grow the faith."
 
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The mission ‘Chaaaarge!!’ will disable the Army Professionalism cost from this cavalry merc company.

This will be very useful for modders. Since unique units can't be modded Anbennar and other mods use mercenaries for unique units like the wizard armies. So have the ability to no longer have army professionalism cost for certain mercenaries will be very good.
 

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I'm not intending to insult Jewish people, or talk about any kind of racism, but, I'm really curious: In what historical aspect could they possibly receive 'tolerance' ability? To me, considering that Jewish people killed Jesus, and Israel being not friendly with its neighbor, it seems awkward.
I have very short knowledge of both Judaism and its history but among those, non could be called 'tolerate'.
So, was there any related historical incident or Judaism doctrine?
 
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I'm not intending to insult Jewish people, or talk about any kind of racism, but, I'm really curious: In what historical aspect could they possibly receive 'tolerance' ability? To me, considering that Jewish people killed Jesus, and Israel being not friendly with its neighbor, it seems awkward.
I have very short knowledge of both Judaism and its history but among those, non could be called 'tolerate'.
So, was there any related historical incident or Judaism doctrine?
I can get what your saying somewhat (bar the Jews killing Jesus part which has historically been used as [to use eu4 terms] a casus belli to go after all Jews for all time as a collective in spite of the fact that, obviously, it was the Romans who killed Jesus, and the fact that Christianity also follows Ezekiel 18:20 so the whole thing is pretty cut and dry anti-Semitism) and while you might be right in it not being especially tolerant, as a religion, at least compared to the other two big Abrahamic ones, Christianity and Islam, the religion itself, how Jewish people act aside (the idea that Israel being "not friendly" with its neighbors aside [especially since that's after the time frame in question and the idea that that is a one way street is also not entirely fair] ) is pretty tolerant at least compared to the other two. Judaism has active prohibitions against conversion, as opposed to the standard prostylization of Christianity (something something white man's burden reference) and the militant expansion and conversion as seen in Islam (someone correct me here if I'm wrong, not my area of real knowledge from school).

All of that aside, however, this is also a game and while it would probably make more historical realism sense to have penalties against religious conversion to Judaism if you had that and nothing else it might not be very fun or balanced which is ultimately what matters. To that end, something to do with religious unity and tolerance makes sense at least on the gameplay side where you would have to convert every single province you conquered while also not being beyond the pale in historical or religious accuracy.

I don't want this to come off as an attack or me saying you're anti-Semitic (you literally say in your post you don't have much knowledge) and not everyone gets the opportunity to study religion in school but I do want to say that, at least to my knowledge (which I admit is mostly centered around medieval Christianity), you're incorrect and want to add that the Jews killed Jesus thing has not only been refuted by the pope (previous pope, can't remember which one) but is not only very much on the wrong side of history as an academic discipline but is terminology that is heavily couched in a long history of justifications of persecutions. If you want to argue that historical point, merits of it aside, I might consider using different terminology so you are at least distancing yourself from a long history of antisemitism.
 
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Pavía

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Nice! Tough start with unique OP religion? Now that's a good balance.

What would you say for some kind mechanism representing Jewish minorities and their migrations in Europe? E.g. random events to gain development in province with "drawback" of a small % change (depending on dev) of province changing religion to Judaism.
There are already some events in the game that portray Jewish communities across Europe. However, given that it looks as both we and the community are happy with the new Judaism mechanics, we'll probably take a look on expanding that flavor, as there have been a lot of good suggestions in this thread in that sense.
Is Adal War Preparations supposed to give only +0.01 piety? That would be much smaller than the usual 0.1.
Number to be fixed. ;)
The update is looking good, great job! Also, could you add a few achievements relating to the new stuff? Thank you!
Yes! We'll talk about the new Achievements in a DD before release.
Thats great!
If we're working on naming something i think should be worked on is the renaming of jewish estates and buildings. They don't need to change the mechanics at all, but calling the Jewish religious estate "clergy" just doesn't feel right. I propose "Beit Din" or "Rabbinical Councel". Also the term temple for Jewish holy building seems bland and generic, maybe "synagogue" or "Beit Knesset" is more fitting.

Thank you
We'll take a look about this, although probably it wouldn't be included in the release version, but in a future patch.
@Pavía @Ogele - and other Dev's involved with this update,
Up front, know that this comment is ultimately about Ethiopia primarily, and the current default starting Religion for that nation, which is paramount to discuss considering your rework of Africa.

While you Paradox Dev's have received mostly positive comments and praise for the Judaism religion build, I want to offer you a Divergent view in perspective of this update to the game:

- Your work on Judaism and the resultant flexibility to make use of the perks/buffs from that religion, combined with the way all other religions mostly work in terms of gameplay, have all collectively revealed just how limiting a Coptic religion game start is within EU4.

Bear with me, this is about PROCESS or Systems Engineering of the religion's benefits, the perks or buffs and "how to get them."

If you have never thought of this before, your portrayal of the Coptic religion amounts to: A Mission Tree.
Coptic Faith is a Provincial-conquering system, much like a Mission Tree. And only a Mission Tree without flexibility as to how/where/why you get perks and buffs.
Whereas, most all other faiths simply require the game to progress and build up power in multiple, diverse ways that has no requirement to gain Provinces (especially not Key Provinces).
Examples:
- Catholic: improve relations with Papal State = higher rate to get buffs, pay into system for favor, do events for Cardinal (even if nefarious), gain more provinces (an option as contrast, not mandatory) and then more provinces w/more total Development in cumulative total gets better odds for Cardinals and buffing pace. Point is, multiple options/paths to gain buffs, and I didn't even mention all for this religion. And several other religions also have this multi-pronged approach.

But the Coptic faith? Is this the right way to present a religion in EU4, and is this the best way to play-through as that religion? Coptic faith results in a very limited approach, with the hope that one conquers on just the right pathway (just like working a Mission Tree). You don't need to do that with most any other faith - you simply need to survive and grow your stats in various ways (depending on your strengths at the time) to mature your religion's buffs.

My opinion, this upcoming game release has totally forgotten about the default Ethiopia Coptic faith, and you totally missed an opportunity to overhaul the Coptic Religion into a more universally useful religion in line with the other religions that don't need Mission Tree type progress to "grow the faith."
To be clear (and fair), it was for us a more important priority to give mechanics to a religion yet lacking it, than to rework how an already existing one works. However, we didn't want to forget about the Coptic faith, and because of that we introduced 2 monuments that require that religion to be used. In future patches, perhaps we can rework a bit how it works (as we're already doing with other religions), because one of our long-term objectives is to try to rebalance under-performing religions; but I can't promise when are we going to take a detailed look over it.
Mali in game is today WAY weaker than it was in reality. Making them stronger doesn't break the game, it brings it closer to reality.
Talking a bit about this. Mali in 1444 was a power in decline, its golden age being one century ago. They struggled to regain some of their former status for a century after game's starting date, but they didn't succeeded in that. Instead, the rising power and top dog of the region in that century was Songhai, until their complete defeat against the Moroccans in 1591.

We wanted to portray those historical processes, so that's the reasoning behind the rework we've done to Songhai and Mali for Origins-1.32 patch. I know it's and impactful change from the previous setup, but this way we think that region will be funnier, and will stick a bit better to its historical development.
 
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Kapi96

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"we had some extra development time, and we decided that more content would be best"

More provinces would've been better...

Anyways, the Jewish changes sound interesting. Just a shame that it's such a small religion on the map. Don't suppose events like the one that changes Selanik to Jewish for the Ottomans are more common? There should be Jewish minorities in a lot of places, so events offering the chance to give them special privileges or something in a certain city that encourages more Jews to come and can flip the religion over to Jewish, would be a decent way to make it more of a viable choice in game.
 
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Darsara

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..and Israel being not friendly with its neighbor, it seems awkward.

I'll just say to that that there is a difference between the views of a religion, and the politics of a country that says they are espousing the views of that religion or closely related to it. For example, would you say that the politics of Belgium represents the views of the Roman Catholic Church? Over more so when modern ideas around the Israeli state didn't get codified until well after the end of EU's time period.
 
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Bshepp

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"we had some extra development time, and we decided that more content would be best"

More provinces would've been better...

Anyways, the Jewish changes sound interesting. Just a shame that it's such a small religion on the map. Don't suppose events like the one that changes Selanik to Jewish for the Ottomans are more common? There should be Jewish minorities in a lot of places, so events offering the chance to give them special privileges or something in a certain city that encourages more Jews to come and can flip the religion over to Jewish, would be a decent way to make it more of a viable choice in game.
Yea i hope they work on that with AI updates. All they need to do is make the castile AI more intent on conquering granada... i know that seems random but its the main thing.

Once Castile eats granada they get the event to expel their jews and the ottomans get an event to settle them in selaniki. But now the AI usually gives up and leaves granada be until the mid 1500s making the ottoman event almost never fire.
 

EarlKonrad

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Why does the DIP aspect gives TotTF, Tolerance and Dev cost reduction? All of these are modifiers associated with ADM, not DIP.
 

Jorlem

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- We will include Yom Kippur in the feature, you're completely right about the importance of that feast.
Just wanted to make sure, you know that Yom Kippur is a fast day, right? Most other Jewish holidays involve feasts or special foods, but not Yom Kippur.
 
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tyriet

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These Judaism ideas could be more thought out really.

Hanukkah should be swapped with Rosh Hashanah for Military-Admin. The story of Hanukkah is one of jewish uprising against the Seleucids, it being "- National Unrest"

Rosh Hashanah on the other hand is joy for the stuff god has given, and is in many ways also a harvest festival, making - unrest more reasonable here. Or heck, if we're talking about people being calmed down from Angryness into less unrest. Yom Kippur would fit from a religious point of view, it being very much about forgiveness.

Next up it's called "Simchat Torah" (but that's probably a spelling error)

And why does Sukkot, the festival where you live/eat in self-built thingies outside your house - interest. Perhaps move Sukkot to be - dev cost, for constructing the sukkahs or settling new lands after the exodus? Or - build cost? And then do Yom Kippur as forgivness i.e. Improve Relation or less AE or something?

Plus calling the Idea "remember the passover" whilst calling the even "pessach" is a bit odd - they're the same thing ater all.

I get having to keep things balanced and not make a Religion OP, but paradox games can also be great vessels for learning, if the buttons kinda fit the religious ideas behind these festivals.
 
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Danpat

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I can get what your saying somewhat (bar the Jews killing Jesus part which has historically been used as [to use eu4 terms] a casus belli to go after all Jews for all time as a collective in spite of the fact that, obviously, it was the Romans who killed Jesus, and the fact that Christianity also follows Ezekiel 18:20 so the whole thing is pretty cut and dry anti-Semitism) and while you might be right in it not being especially tolerant, as a religion, at least compared to the other two big Abrahamic ones, Christianity and Islam, the religion itself, how Jewish people act aside (the idea that Israel being "not friendly" with its neighbors aside [especially since that's after the time frame in question and the idea that that is a one way street is also not entirely fair] ) is pretty tolerant at least compared to the other two. Judaism has active prohibitions against conversion, as opposed to the standard prostylization of Christianity (something something white man's burden reference) and the militant expansion and conversion as seen in Islam (someone correct me here if I'm wrong, not my area of real knowledge from school).

All of that aside, however, this is also a game and while it would probably make more historical realism sense to have penalties against religious conversion to Judaism if you had that and nothing else it might not be very fun or balanced which is ultimately what matters. To that end, something to do with religious unity and tolerance makes sense at least on the gameplay side where you would have to convert every single province you conquered while also not being beyond the pale in historical or religious accuracy.

I don't want this to come off as an attack or me saying you're anti-Semitic (you literally say in your post you don't have much knowledge) and not everyone gets the opportunity to study religion in school but I do want to say that, at least to my knowledge (which I admit is mostly centered around medieval Christianity), you're incorrect and want to add that the Jews killed Jesus thing has not only been refuted by the pope (previous pope, can't remember which one) but is not only very much on the wrong side of history as an academic discipline but is terminology that is heavily couched in a long history of justifications of persecutions. If you want to argue that historical point, merits of it aside, I might consider using different terminology so you are at least distancing yourself from a long history of antisemitism.

Thanks for correcting me. Now to think of it again, Judaism itself seems quite ...exclusive?(I can't remember the exact term sorry), BUT, also, I don't remember any incident where they enforced their own religion to others. And I'm sorry if anyone felt offended due to my words. I'm not very good at English, so I'm just using words which I'm used to not knowing if it is hate-word or not.
 

Bshepp

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Will access to judaism change at all?

Right now its pretty hard to get a jewish province in ironman. There are the 2 provinces in ethiopia and 1 event that almost never fires. So its a pretty hard religion to get unless you go custom nation. When leviathan came out they gave zoroastrianism another province in India making it easier to access. Will there be any new jewish provinces?

To be clear i support sticking to historical accuracy so if thats not historically accurate its ok (i genuinely don't know). But i do know that salanik was majority Jewish for a long time which is why the ottomans event exists, so if we can't get another Jewish province can we atleast get a rework of that event so it actually fires in most games (especially since it happened in real history). I think this can be done by either extending the time frame for castile to get the Alhambra decree or by making the castile AI more hostile to granada.

Thank you
 
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Aldaron

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Right now its pretty hard to get a jewish province in ironman. There are the 2 provinces in ethiopia and 1 event that almost never fires. So its a pretty hard religion to get unless you go custom nation. When leviathan came out they gave zoroastrianism another province in India making it easier to access. Will there be any new jewish provinces?
If you want an Ironman run, you can start with Ethiopia, release Semien as vassal and play as them.
 
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