EU4 - Development Diary - 25th of October 2016

[Thornado86]

It also says online that the Kongsberg Sølvverk started in 1623.

Yes, the silver was found in 1623, which gave it all a big boom in production when the news of silver reach the danish king. But the area already produced copper among many others as early as in 1400s. This production was not large enough to give credit to any goods modifier, but for that province it would still back then be more important than fishing. So, I think the province they've made with 1.19 should have copper as its goods.

Then you can discuss, if you want, whether it deserves a change to gold(silver) in 1623 by event. It would be historical, and for the province it was by far the most profitable goods. I still think a goods modifier would be way too powerful as these modifiers are so rare elsewhere in the EU4-world. If they were more plentiful in order to give the world more flavor, then kongsberg could easily be one of them. But realistically the EU4 team would have to figure out a whole new world balance because of so many new factors everywhere, so I think that will never happen.

 

[sporefan00]

If you don't like the game-mechanical implications of wastelands, there are - I believe - several mods catering to you. I am sure those mods will dispose of these new wastelands just like they've disposed of the existing ones.

If it's just the blobs of grey that bother you, there's a configuration option to make it paint wastelands in a nearby country's colour if that country owns most of the surrounding provinces.

1. You cannot play multiplayer or ironman with mods.
2. If two or more countries own provinces around the wasteland, it doesn't color it in. That's annoying.

Wastelands just seem like an addition which ruins gameplay. Like, really, how can you not colonize a CERTAIN and SPECIFIC circle on the map, but you can do around it? For me, they ruin stuff. Sometimes they can cause bordergore or just shapes that are uncomfortable to see. (Like the awkward line between Morocco and Timbuktu. There was historically none.)
Refer to the image to see that there was NO horrid province shapes.

 

[grommile]

1. You cannot play multiplayer or ironman with mods.

You can, in fact, play multiplayer with mods, if you negotiate which mods to use with the other players.

2. If two or more countries own provinces around the wasteland, it doesn't color it in. That's annoying.

Because it's not obviously part of either country in that case.

Wastelands just seem like an addition which ruins gameplay. Like, really, how can you not colonize a CERTAIN and SPECIFIC circle on the map, but you can do around it?

Because the land is unfit to extract a meaningful economic surplus from with period technology no matter how hard you try and/or unfit to march an army across with period technology no matter how hard you try.

Take that big wasteland in southern Arabia, for example. The name "Rub al-Khali", which was given to it by the Arabs, means literally "Empty Quarter" - because it is empty. Prior to the arrival of the oil companies, the last permanent settlement of any significant size in the Empty Quarter was abandoned to the desert many years before the birth of the prophet Muhammad, because the shifting climate had rendered it impossible to keep the city supplied with anywhere near enough drinking water.

Or how about the Himalayas? The routes by which you can reasonably march an army from the Indo-Gangetic Plain onto the Himalayan Plateau are denoted by the places where North Indian provinces directly border Tibetan ones; the places where you can't are depicted as Wastelands separating north India from Tibet.

Then just to the north of the Himalayas, there's the Tarim Basin, where the game depicts a narrow ring of provinces encircling a wasteland labelled "Taklamakan" - a local name believed to mean either "place of ruins" or "abandoned place" - which is a cold desert, scarcely more habitable than the Empty Quarter of Arabia.

 

[Thornado86]

Because the land is unfit to extract a meaningful economic surplus from with period technology no matter how hard you try and/or unfit to march an army across with period technology no matter how hard you try.

There are other wastelands that makes less sense than these which you use in your examples tho. For example those in Africa which after a couple of DLCs are now a playground for Kongo, filled with small tribes/"nations". You have places in North America which doesn't necessarily have to be wastelands (at least not due to climate), and there's the Amazonas which of course is not a place with cities in real life, but could easily have been places in which towns could've been built and grown into pretty large cities if the inhabitants were willing to do the effort. It's not necessarily so much different to settle there as it is in most of the empty south american provinces ready for colonization. But I'm only guessing now, of course.

 

[Thornado86]

Did they say when Denmark patch will be released anyway? I can't see it anywhere.

 

[ecrurudesby]

Did they say when Denmark patch will be released anyway? I can't see it anywhere.

The Dev Diary on the 18th indicated it would be in public beta by the second week of November and fully released before that month is over.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Any reason Bergenhus is called Bergenshus? When people say it like bergen shus, its so wrong. Its where i live, and t literally mean Bergen house, just google Bergenshus and bergenhus. There is a fort called Bergenhus festning (guarding the inlet to the port)

Good find. As far as I can see it never was Bergenshus when us Danes held it. And comparing to other fortress names it also makes sense not to have the s. Cant say whether the local dialect had that s or old orthography had it---or perhaps it's just there in Swedish and this is yet another example of Swedish names being used all over Scandinavia.

Anyway Bergenhus itself is a fine name for the province, since the counties there were called Bergenhus (northern and southern). But yes, I agree that the s should be lost. Also does people really say Bergen shus? That just seems unbelieveable due to how wrong and ridiculous that is. That sounds like a drink and not a fortress after all.

Ooohhh have they brought it forward? Last I saw (in the DD on the 18th) it was the end of November.

I must have misremembered then; or perhaps I mixed it up with when they expected the beta out.

2. If two or more countries own provinces around the wasteland, it doesn't color it in. That's annoying.

Actually it's dependent on development. If you vastly outmatch the development of the other people bordering the wasteland you get it coloured.

there's the Amazonas which of course is not a place with cities in real life, but could easily have been places in which towns could've been built and grown into pretty large cities if the inhabitants were willing to do the effort.

Yes and no. You can build things there along the rivers, but even then you can't make it a particularly large settlement pre modern medicine due to malaria. And you can't really clear a province in the middle of the Amazon without river access back then. You could cut it all down, but why would people back then do that when not needing all that wood? And then you'd have to change the terrain from jungle to farmlands and after a few years to desert when the ~10 cm thick topsoil vanishes. And then you're back at a wasteland, but not you need to make wastelands elsewhere in the World due to the Amazonas being gone.

 

[fangwolf4]

sorry if its a bit off, but do you have any plan on making game rules type thing in EU4 (like no Estates etc..)?

 

[Lohrenswald]

Jotunheim wastland is disgusting

 

[grommile]

Jotunheim wastland is disgusting

Disgusting it may or may not be, but it's certainly strategically useful.

 

[Admiral Fisker]

Johan just posted this picture on Twitter, and what can we see from it? Sweden has gotten a few more new provinces, whilst Skåne has been split in two. I'm getting a little less enthusiastic about this patch, because it really doesn't seem as if it's going to buff Denmark all that much anymore. Sweden's current development is 111, whilst Denmark's is 106. In the screenshot from the diary, we can see that Denmark gets a whole whopping 7 extra development and makes around 1 gold pr. month.

With these extra provinces added to Sweden, this'll probably mean that Sweden has gotten quite a buff too, so I won't expect Denmark and Sweden to be equal. Sweden will probably still have more development at the start, despite the fact that they shouldn't. Furthermore, I think splitting Skåne up will actually hurt Denmark, as it means that too much of Denmark's development will be focused in a province, that can be lost with greater ease than most others. Why not split Sjælland or Fyn in two?

Splitting Skåne will just create a snowball effect, because not only will it mean that Denmark loses a very large part of its development, that development and those provinces will also go to Sweden. Denmark should still be able to more or less fight Sweden on an equal footing after losing Skåne, especially thanks to her navy, islands, the rich Jutland and the easily defensible Norwegian frontier.

 

[Dakka]

Johan just posted this picture on Twitter, and what can we see from it? Sweden has gotten a few more new provinces, whilst Skåne has been split in two. I'm getting a little less enthusiastic about this patch, because it really doesn't seem as if it's going to buff Denmark all that much anymore. Sweden's current development is 111, whilst Denmark's is 106. In the screenshot from the diary, we can see that Denmark gets a whole whopping 7 extra development and makes around 1 gold pr. month.

With these extra provinces added to Sweden, this'll probably mean that Sweden has gotten quite a buff too, so I won't expect Denmark and Sweden to be equal. Sweden will probably still have more development at the start, despite the fact that they shouldn't. Furthermore, I think splitting Skåne up will actually hurt Denmark, as it means that too much of Denmark's development will be focused in a province, that can be lost with greater ease than most others. Why not split Sjælland or Fyn in two?

Splitting Skåne will just create a snowball effect, because not only will it mean that Denmark loses a very large part of its development, that development and those provinces will also go to Sweden. Denmark should still be able to more or less fight Sweden on an equal footing after losing Skåne, especially thanks to her navy, islands, the rich Jutland and the easily defensible Norwegian frontier.

Something I saw is that Norway gets a unique Tier 1 or at least the same one that Denmark does

 

[TheDungen]

Johan just posted this picture on Twitter, and what can we see from it? Sweden has gotten a few more new provinces, whilst Skåne has been split in two. I'm getting a little less enthusiastic about this patch, because it really doesn't seem as if it's going to buff Denmark all that much anymore. Sweden's current development is 111, whilst Denmark's is 106. In the screenshot from the diary, we can see that Denmark gets a whole whopping 7 extra development and makes around 1 gold pr. month.

With these extra provinces added to Sweden, this'll probably mean that Sweden has gotten quite a buff too, so I won't expect Denmark and Sweden to be equal. Sweden will probably still have more development at the start, despite the fact that they shouldn't. Furthermore, I think splitting Skåne up will actually hurt Denmark, as it means that too much of Denmark's development will be focused in a province, that can be lost with greater ease than most others. Why not split Sjælland or Fyn in two?

Splitting Skåne will just create a snowball effect, because not only will it mean that Denmark loses a very large part of its development, that development and those provinces will also go to Sweden. Denmark should still be able to more or less fight Sweden on an equal footing after losing Skåne, especially thanks to her navy, islands, the rich Jutland and the easily defensible Norwegian frontier.

Oh crap... I told them not to split småland!

 

[Wagonlitz]

I really hope this is an early halloween joke, since this change frankly is horrible.

Johan just posted this picture on Twitter, and what can we see from it? Sweden has gotten a few more new provinces, whilst Skåne has been split in two. I'm getting a little less enthusiastic about this patch, because it really doesn't seem as if it's going to buff Denmark all that much anymore. Sweden's current development is 111, whilst Denmark's is 106. In the screenshot from the diary, we can see that Denmark gets a whole whopping 7 extra development and makes around 1 gold pr. month.

I too am less enthusiastic about this patch now, since this means that Sweden got 5 new provinces, Denmark 3, and Norway 3. Which is a bit ridiculous given that Sweden was the one of the three least lacking a buff. Not sure anymore how much of a buff it actually is for Denmark, since this might mean we slip even further behind Sweden at game start.

Splitting Skåne will just create a snowball effect, because not only will it mean that Denmark loses a very large part of its development, that development and those provinces will also go to Sweden. Denmark should still be able to more or less fight Sweden on an equal footing after losing Skåne, especially thanks to her navy, islands, the rich Jutland and the easily defensible Norwegian frontier.

Indeed. Now Skåneland should be important and be the game changer, but Denmark alone should be equal to Sweden or actually probably a bit higher than Sweden in development at game start. With Skåneland being the decider where if Denmark keeps Skåneland she can take on Sweden alone whereas if she loses it she needs Norway to equal Sweden---like happened historically.
And as mentioned previously Skåne really shouldn't have been split, since it always was a really important province and in fact the most important province in Denmark. You couldn't become king without being approved at the Scanian thing. So it should be a single province with a really high development to represent that---i.e. like it used to be.
And as you say adding provinces in Eastern Denmark just means that losing Eastern Denmark becomes much harder to get around from.

I really hope that another island province was added too. @Trin Tragula why are you guys against adding more island provinces and thereby simulating how you either needed to beat the Danish navy or strike extreme luck with a really harsh winter at the middle of the little ice age?
And now I have you then please change Göinge to the appropriate Gønge. It makes absolutely no sense for Gønge to have the name Göinge when ruled by Denmark.
Also not sure on whether I think Lund or Malmøhus is most appropriate for the Lund province. On one hand Malmøhus is the administrative division and while it didn't encompass all of the new Lund province originally it did for the last half of the game (approximately; I'm aware that Christianstad bordered Halland, but I wager that it's for game play reasons that Lund is given that Halland border). On the other hand Lund was the diocese and really important. Other provinces aren't named after dioceses though (at least not in Denmark), but on the other hand Lund was really important. (Though so was Malmø.) So not sure.

What were your reasons for picking Lund over say Malmøhus?

 

[Trin Tragula]

Not sure anymore how much of a buff it actually is for Denmark, since this might mean we slip even further behind Sweden at game start.

Unlike the Danish and Norwegian changers Swedens new provinces don't come with any new development (outside the 90-100 autonomy 1 1 1 in Finland).
Denmark and slesvig/Holstein have definitively become stronger.
Also remember Norway has also been buffed - and are very loyal.

And as mentioned previously Skåne really shouldn't have been split, since it always was a really important province and in fact the most important province in Denmark. You couldn't become king without being approved at the Scanian thing. So it should be a single province with a really high development to represent that---i.e. like it used to be.
And as you say adding provinces in Eastern Denmark just means that losing Eastern Denmark becomes much harder to get around from.

Splitting Scania makes plenty of sense. It gives more room for manouver (same as the splits of Småland and Västergötland) and portrays the terrain better. It's also closer to administrative divisions of the time (though of course in 1444 it was split in more parts) and even things like revolts later on.
We have split plenty of rich provinces before, they aren't any less important afterwards

@Trin Tragula[/USER] why are you guys against adding more island provinces and thereby simulating how you either needed to beat the Danish navy or strike extreme luck with a really harsh winter at the middle of the little ice age?

Islands are hard to click. You'll still need that navy to beat Denmark now.
In case you're fighting Sweden they even need that navy for Jutland.

And now I have you then please change Göinge to the appropriate Gønge. It makes absolutely no sense for Gønge to have the name Göinge when ruled by Denmark.

Read my last post again, this is in the game.

What were your reasons for picking Lund over say Malmøhus?

Lund was the capital of the existing Scania province. Malmö is certainly fitting too, especially later on.
I'd say it's a pretty tough call naming wise, not everything you see is final.

 

[Metz]

@Trin Tragula

How come the Ribe province was removed? Could Slesvig be split again with the north being Ribe and the south being Slesvig?

 

[Metz]

I'm still waiting for native polynesian nations in the Pacific islands and the Maori in New Zealand.
I'm seriously hoping you don't just leave the region empty forever.

And all the different natives that lived throughout the Phillipines.

 

[Metz]

Shouldn't the events that occur in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway still occur when they form Scandinavia? Forming Scandinavia early makes you lose out on a lot of benefits.

 

[Hipster_on_Ice]

Shouldn't the events that occur in Denmark, Sweden, and Norway still occur when they form Scandinavia? Forming Scandinavia early makes you lose out on a lot of benefits.

The fact that it was locked behind ADM 22 a few patches ago certainly helps avert that, but it would be nice if Scandinavia inherited the events of the country that formed it.

 

[Solfall]

Is there some way of measuring development and its benefits where the number of provinces doesn't matter quite as much?