EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of March 2020

[Groogy]

Are the Golden Bulls still like permanent reforms? Or are they lifetime modifiers now?

Only during the time the Pope who picked it is alive.

The Pope's as in Papal State or curia controller? Would be strange if the curia controller could force the papal state to spend money.

Papal States

@Groogy
Some little questions
1)Are the concession reforms from the councile of Trent permanent, even after the Counter Reformation ends?
2) Will the Counter Reformation decision still exist with +2 missionaries etc?
3) Are non european nations like Kongo, Ming and Japan now also able to get cardinals and become Curia controller?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Yes, but not from the automatic system. The Pope has to directly give it to them.

 

[Metz]

Can Bishoprics and Archbishopric leaders get themselves to become Cardinals?

 

[Metz]

If you swap religion and convert a province with a Cardinal in it, can they move provinces to a Catholic neighbor (prioritizing same culture group)?

 

[nfmarque]

I never buy tickets for the curia roulette, i prefer spending on stability/mercantilism etc. So meh

 

[Spaninq]

Will rulers' personality traits be a factor in which position an AI takes in the Council of Trent?
Perhaps some code could be written such that if a ruler picks up Zealot as their 2nd or 3rd trait, their nation auto-switches to harsh, and if a ruler picks up Tolerant as their 2nd or 3rd trait, their nation auto-switches to conciliatory?

 

[John the John]

Looks great!

Catholic Nations can also Buy Indulgence to increase the Curia Coffers

But buying indulgenges as being the main option of giving curia money doesn't make sense. The Council of Trent forbid the selling of indulgences. Does it mean that after the Council of Trent it won't be possible to give money to Curia Coffers outside of contributions? If not, Could you rename it to "Give alms to Curia" or "Give a gift to Curia"?

 

[Ixalmaris]

Does the Conciliatory Position really also give resistence to reformation centres?

It looks rather weird that no matter whar you do, you gain resistance.

 

[Basileus Frank]

This is not really relevant to the Dev Diary itself, but I have noticed that you have changed the flag of Sicily. I'm sicilian and I've never seen that flag before. Did you make it up?

The old flag was historically accurate and was used from 1296 until 1816, when it was replaced by the flag of the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies; thus it spans pretty much the entire EU4 timeframe. And it looks prettier! I hope that you put it back.

Plus, why is the capital Girgenti (Agrigento)? Shouldn't it be Palermo? If it's because you made Girgerti more developed than Palermo, fix that because it doesn't make any sense.

If you're making Sicily playable as a vassal/other form of subject, that's terrific! But please put the old flag and Palermo as the capital (or even Messina, which was seen as a "second capital" because of it's economic importance; why don't you make it the main trade port?)
I look forward to hearing from you!

 

[Huldunguldlu]

I really like these changes, since they make Catholicism more interesting and the Pope more influential.
However, there are a few problems I see:

1. Papal Bulls are a lottery. You can enact them and have the Pope die one month later, which is a waste of money. Couldn't they have a minimum lifetime of 5 or 10 years maybe?

2. Papal elections are still completely random. That's a big problem that discourages people to stay Catholic, the best things are locked behind a random wall, which means in SP AI will be able to do ineffective stuff with it, and in MP one nation at maximum will bother to stay Catholic. A realiable way to become Pope would be pretty neat.

3. There are no military bonuses (except the Crusades, which are not active for a long time, and manpower ones, which are nice but not quality-level-nice). This has always been a big problem of Catholicism in comparison to other religions, and it is the reason why in MP a lot of people instantly convert to protestant or even orthodox, which, I think, is not the goal. However, there are many possibilities now, where such a bonus could be applied. It doesn't have to be a big one anyway, just a little thing to not have your military be completely inferior to that of other religions. I'd propose something like:

- allow crusades against heretics in one of the harsh Council of Trient concessions
- add like 5% morale or 10% Inf combat ability to the proclaim holy war thing
- give one of the Council of Trient concessions an effect where Catholic nations which are at war with heretics get a morale bonus
- add a military bonus for all Catholics in the Crusade golden bull
- add a new curia action to buy, which is only available if you are at war with a heathen or a heretic, that gives morale or ICA

 

[heill]

What if the Pope had an unique peace deal option to increase the ammount of money a country sends to the Curia / the ammount of influence the clergy have ?

 

[MetallAlximist]

What is the meaning of conciliation reforms? if you do not take into account the first range of reforms, then they are much weaker. In this case, several times weaker.

 

[RainFall2799]

If they are not telling us the relaese date yet it seems like it will be released in mid summer... at least I hope it wont be the last dlc

 

[Lavilledieu]

I see lots of institution spread modifiers: Immensa Aeterni Dei, Harsh Position, Conciliatory Position and Second Concession. However, in most of Catholic Europe, institution spread is almost a non-issue, especially with knowledge sharing enabled. I understand the thought behind this, it fits thematically, but in practice it will lead to quite empty decisions, in particular with the Second Concession. Couldn't you work with idea cost, innovativeness, stability cost, estate influence & loyalty, ... ? You want a proposal?

I also assume that the Concessions are permanent modifiers catholic nations keep after the council?
Another question: does Catholicism keep all the decisions we currently have, or will some get merged into the new Catholic interactions?

 

[Oldpara]

I am not sure but it seems that every agency is connected to the Papacy. If you're not Papal controller only thing changes its some little more bonuses/maluses than before but you still have limited control over them (contrary to the other religions where you have total control over bonuses you get)

It seems Catholic will be cooler for Multiplayer, as diplomacy with Papal controller will be more interesting (ie buy bonuses you need at given moment form the Pope)

 

[Kane_hun]

Any changes to catholic New World nations? More concretely, will they be still penalised by the Treaty of Tordesillas if they want to colonise, or at least can they have the possibillity to claim the land in the treaty? Would give some incentinve to actually convert to Catholic as a nation there and stay that way.

 

[ViperJay]

A few decades after the Reformation has started to ravage Europe, there will be something called The Council of Trent that will last about 50 years at maximum, or until the Papal Controller has picked four different changes to the Church.

Will the changes and heretic opinion modifiers be present for Catholics until the end of the game, or only for those 50 years when the council is active?

 

[Canute VII]

It does still retain that yes. but with the council you get more than enough to compensate

How about giving each religion 3 base modifiers: 2 positive and 1 negative (a bias)?

 

[MutantPenguin]

Curia Coffers
First of all, the Curia has its own pool of money, the Curia Coffers, which is accumulated each month from contributions from each catholic country. The contribution depends on the development controlled by the Clergy estate in each country. Catholic Nations can also Buy Indulgence to increase the Curia Coffers and

Is there supposed to be more to this last sentence?

The Curia Coffers can then be spent on the following.

• Call the Ecumenical Council

Ecumenical Council
The Ecumenical Council is a way for the Papal Controller to siphon their own money into the Curia Coffers to increase their influence to become the next Papal Controller.

Is there maybe a mistake here? Like you typed "Papal Controller" when you meant "Papal States"? People have asked about this mechanic further down the thread and you've mentioned the Papal State's coffers but it's still not really clear how this works, or if this mechanic involves spending money from the Curia coffers at all?

 

[Nyrael]

I mean, it should be possible if you prevent reformation from happening until 1610. Since there are no reformation centers in age of absolutism.

I remember long ago when I played my CK2 converted save, where the number of Catholic countries was too small for Reform Desire to grow. Age of Discovery lasted for circa 200 years, Age of Protestantism for 20, and then the Age of Absolutism properly started.

So I wonder: can the Age of Protestantism even be skipped?

Does the Conciliatory Position really also give resistence to reformation centres?

It looks rather weird that no matter whar you do, you gain resistance.

Quite a few historically conciliatory countries avoided the "Protestant Crisis" so it makes sense (probably because religious suppression did a LOT to motivate people to turn to Protestantism).

If they are not telling us the relaese date yet it seems like it will be released in mid summer... at least I hope it wont be the last dlc

Judging by a recent quote by Johan, EU5 is not even in plans yet. Heck, he said it as "IF we make EU5..."
Thus, it's doubtful that they would end the DLC cycle because EU4 is still a highly played game.

I am not sure but it seems that every agency is connected to the Papacy. If you're not Papal controller only thing changes its some little more bonuses/maluses than before but you still have limited control over them (contrary to the other religions where you have total control over bonuses you get)

That is kinda the point though: the point of Protestantism was to give Kings freedom to shape the church as they please, whereas Catholicism is universal and everyone is supposed to follow the same tenets.
Though it would be better if instead of the Papal Controller, Tenets were chosen by the Ecumenical Council (where everyone uses their Cardinals to vote). And more historically accurate, Popes under control of other states happened, but not THIS often: both the HRE and France had to fight (often literally) with the Popes to enforce their will.

Will the changes and heretic opinion modifiers be present for Catholics until the end of the game, or only for those 50 years when the council is active?

Already answered in this thread: they last until the end of the game.

 

[Arnuzîr]

So does anything special happen if you go down one route of the council exclusively?