EU4 - Development Diary - 24th of January 2017

[Republic of Mercury]

If you take the +3 artillery siege bonus, does that mean you'd need 40 regiments of artillery to get +8 siege on a max-level fort? If so, looks like atrittion-reduction is the new siege-ability. (Incidentally, defensive, humanist, exploration, quality and quantity let you get to -85% attrition with any nation. Kongo, generic hordes, Arabia, Canada, Siberia, Charrua and Zaporozhie can theoretically get to 100% from there, but there's probably a cap)

 

[mursolini]

Yes, but Turks do have military bonuses. I wouldn't mind things staying as they are, if attrition cap gets removed and Russia gets a big bonus to attrition resist on own teritory. Scorched earth tactics are non existent at the moment and they will even be further nerfed with devastation and scorched earth is one of most important tactics Russia used.

Yes, I totally agree. I also am not a huge fan of how Prussia is overloaded with military boosts, but has neither economic nor manpower/FL boosts to be "army with a stare" instead of space marines.

Turks only have 5 discipline and +15% CA cavalry for quality, which is not nearly Prussian or Polish level of quality buffs.

 

[Incompetent]

If you take the +3 artillery siege bonus, does that mean you'd need 40 regiments of artillery to get +8 siege on a max-level fort? If so, looks like atrittion-reduction is the new siege-ability. (Incidentally, defensive, humanist, exploration, quality and quantity let you get to -85% attrition with any nation. Kongo, generic hordes, Arabia, Canada, Siberia, Charrua and Zaporozhie can theoretically get to 100% from there, but there's probably a cap)

This is how it used to go:

I think it got capped at some point though.

 

[Dongerino]

I remember there being a bug with the French Revolution disaster not ending like it's supposed to when Napoleon is the ruler. I hope that gets fixed considering France doesn't get a bonus in the Age of Revolutions while all the other majors do.

 

[BarskiPatzow]

Yes, I totally agree. I also am not a huge fan of how Prussia is overloaded with military boosts, but has neither economic nor manpower/FL boosts to be "army with a stare" instead of space marines.

Turks only have 5 discipline and +15% CA cavalry for quality, which is not nearly Prussian or Polish level of quality buffs.

I think they get something from events too. I don't want to compare Russian military bonuses with Prussian because it is pointless. Prussia should be comparable to Sweden. Poland is a different story. While the cavalry bonuses are ok, everything else is a bit OP. As for Turks, it seems to me that even with those small bonuses their quality is a bit too much.

 

[civ_v_freak]

All these big military buffs are going to make Prussia even more powerful between the general bonus against forts and the Prussia-exclusive -20% fire damage taken. The 125% discipline and a 3-star general/admiral are basically freebies for them and it's not hard for them to become Emperor or get an institution province or two.

It matches the time period though, so there's good reason for it.

I would suggest this would make it even easier to go tall with Prussia to get the most benefit out of the Prussian monarchy mechanic.

 

[Shock360]

I have a question. Are you going to nerf most of the nations like Prussia so that you instead of always being OP, they are a bit weaker but in this age have the possibility to be stronger than usual?

 

[BarskiPatzow]

This is how it used to go:

I think it got capped at some point though.

Dafuq? How whaaa? Lol, marches as buildings, forgot about those lol.

 

[Republic of Mercury]

Dafuq? How whaaa? Lol, marches as buildings, forgot about those lol.

You didn't need a breach to assault forts back then, so just get to -100% attrition with ideas, put all your troops in one stack, stack-wipe every enemy army by being more than 10x their size, and insta-occupy every province by assaulting.

 

[BarskiPatzow]

You didn't need a breach to assault forts back then, so just get to -100% attrition with ideas, put all your troops in one stack, stack-wipe every enemy army by being more than 10x their size, and insta-occupy every province by assaulting.

I know that about assaulting, but that stackwiping, doesn't combat width do anything there?

 

[Republic of Mercury]

I know that about assaulting, but that stackwiping, doesn't combat width do anything there?

Nope. If your army is more than 10 times as big as your opponent's at the start of the battle, that's a stack-wipe.

 

[Mortheim]

But mostly versus Turks, which other Russian generals also.had little problems defeating at that point.

Battle of Cassano, Battle of Trebia, Battle of Novi, also there was battle on Schöllenen Gorge (but there is nothing about it on wikipedia for some reason).
Battle of Zorndorf (considering that Russian general was mediocre at best and was fighting Old Fritz himself), Battle of Kunersdorf.
So, not only turks were defeated, as you see.

Because Russian performance was extremely inconsistent, and Russia won wars when it could drag them long enough for it's economy to kick in.

10 out of 10. Bets joke of the century.

 

[Mortheim]

Yes, but Turks do have military bonuses. I wouldn't mind things staying as they are, if attrition cap gets removed and Russia gets a big bonus to attrition resist on own teritory. Scorched earth tactics are non existent at the moment and they will even be further nerfed with devastation and scorched earth is one of most important tactics Russia used.

By game mechanics they should lose it by that time. But, oh well, they won't lose it.
Turks weren't really successful against Russia.
And, well, they were GREAT at supplying huge armies, but their quality was, often, questionable.

 

[Ixal]

Hope

I have a question. Are you going to nerf most of the nations like Prussia so that you instead of always being OP, they are a bit weaker but in this age have the possibility to be stronger than usual?

Hopefully.

Or even better, I would like to see a mechanic where a high amount of militarisation (military ideas, army tradition, military at force limit) causes a drop in taxes and goods produced as so much manpower and industry is used for the military and not the economy.

 

[seriousgigi]

If you ask me some of these bonuses are joke... Poland got like +1 legitimacy...

we can give %5 discipline to poland too but then we have to remove ridiculous %15 moral bonus or %5 discipline from their NI. what do you think?

Polish that beated Ottomans are getting +1 legitimacy that is a joke too...

just for a single battle near wien?

 

[Threshold]

Considering the amount of max-states have been reduced a fair bit in 1.20, this is currently one of the most powerful bonuses.

View attachment 233180

Year is 1756 in your screenshot, +21 from tech. That's either +47 or +65 in 1.18/1.19, depending on whether you've teched to 1760 level (adm 27), which is possible for 0% extra cost in 1745. That's such a huge nerf that I'm confident you'll have to roll it back, at least partially. Either that or finally make state limit a soft limit, with penalties (i.e. to corruption) for going over.

Yeah, unless naval maintenance has gotten significantly more expensive in 1.20 this seems somewhat weak. Just checked my last GB game (1.18); naval maintenance in 1774 was 72 ducats; saving 18 per month isn't nothing, but given that I was running +180/month it isn't like it's going to be very significant. That said, I can't really imagine giving GB a non-naval bonus for this period (perhaps a trade related one?), so I dunno. I guess it's really a symptom of how the naval aspect of the game is somewhat underpowered in general.

It's actually even worse than that. Remember that naval maintenance increases by 60% from tech before this age starts, and another 30% during (actually 40%), so it's more like +70% or +80% and -25%, which is about a 1/7 reduction in costs.

Having recently completed a 1.19 game as Russia, I can positively confirm that while sticking to somewhat historical/plausible expansion (i.e. just the permanent claims, the missions and events plus some expansion in the Caucasus and Central Asia - basically an early Soviet Union) I hit the state limit several times, and in the end I was barely able to turn all my territory - which quite closely resembled Russia's actual historical territory in 1819 - into states. In 1.19, you will pretty certainly not have enough state limit even to fulfil Russia's historical ambition of taking Constantinople.

Got some bad news for you, then: In 1.20, you're going to hit it even earlier.

+20 state, therefore, is quite a powerful boon for Russia - and one that makes historical sense, because the state limit should not discourage Russia from reaching its historical conquests.

Unfortunately at present it seems like this is only going to give back probably about half of what is taken (from every country) by the 1.20 nerf, as it's only available in the final age, it's not that useful (given the general nerf), and isn't going to help Russia reach their historical borders without hitting the state limit, as compared to 1.18/1.19. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

 

[LemonyTang]

Have to say as much as I want to withhold judgement, I am really concerned for MP balance with this new mechanic. I find it quite amusing that you have introduced all these bonuses for European nations and are now playing an Asia MP game. Sure these changes look fun for a snowballing SP save when you want to become God, but considering what you need to lock them, I fear in MP rather than offering strategic choices to different players, stronger players will just get stronger.

 

[Incompetent]

Year is 1756 in your screenshot, +21 from tech. That's either +47 or +65 in 1.18/1.19, depending on whether you've teched to 1760 level (adm 27), which is possible for 0% extra cost in 1745. That's such a huge nerf that I'm confident you'll have to roll it back, at least partially. Either that or finally make state limit a soft limit, with penalties (i.e. to corruption) for going over.

Or give more sources of bonus states that are not based on tech. States are meant to represent the heartland of your country, so it makes sense for a huge stated area to take some investment.

Instead of large numbers of states being the only way to go, I'd rather we had more options to make use of land that isn't part of a state. Trade Companies are profitable enough, but they're confined to certain areas of the map (and the continent rules mean that if you have an Asian capital, you're virtually shut out of the TC game). CNs are fairly cheap to acquire, and relative to the investment, they can earn you good money through trade, gold mines and tariffs. Maybe there will be more options for making money or gaining military strength from other kinds of subject? There seems to be some kind of subject overhaul going on in 1.20.

 

[LiberiusX]

Being the "Age of Revolutions" I figured there would be at least one objective for a subject nation to successfully become independent, either colonial or vassal, via independence CB.

Guess not

 

[Benghi Bon]

Have to say as much as I want to withhold judgement, I am really concerned for MP balance with this new mechanic. I find it quite amusing that you have introduced all these bonuses for European nations and are now playing an Asia MP game. Sure these changes look fun for a snowballing SP save when you want to become God, but considering what you need to lock them, I fear in MP rather than offering strategic choices to different players, stronger players will just get stronger.

Withholding judgement is pointless when the DLC will be virtually unchanged upon release. It's important to voice yourself now before it's too late.

The DLC is most certainly extremely Europe-focused, considering the bonuses and the content within. Whyever Paradox found it necessary to buff already strong nations is beyond me, but I know for certain that any MP game I start as Spain in, I'll declare on France ASAP with a tech advantage and the minus in shock damage, because that is genuinely incredible.