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EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of May 2019

Hey folks, it's time for another EU4 dev diary! My name's Mike, and like my good colleague @Caligula Caesar I've been part of the EU4 Content Design team since December. We've been working on a solid chunk of Europe, and it's time to start showcasing some of this work. As @neondt has mentioned before, we've had a lot of suggestions and feedback from the community, and through further earnest exchanges we've refined the map further.

But, before we get to the end, let's talk about the process quickly, because I know that's what you truly crave.


image1_smol.png


This image is what was used to pitch the idea of what would end up becoming the revised province layout in northern Italy. As you'll see in a moment, it differs from what we ended up with in a couple of ways- Como was added later, along with a split in another North Italian province. Province 5 was originally conceived as a separate Aquileia province (since the country still exists as a releasable in Friuli, it was tempting to see what could be done with it) but that idea was eventually discarded in favor of a new Trieste province.


image2_smol.png


Southern Italy developed much closer to what the original draft envisioned. The southern half of the Italian Peninsula has only a few additions, Avellino being the one that probably sticks out the most. The island of Sicily received a bit more attention, with the island's three provinces turning into five instead. Its new divisions were guided a little bit more by game design priorities than historical divisions, as historical divisions like Sicily's real province of Trapani had sizes and shapes that would have really stuck out like a sore thumb in EU4.

Unlike the northern Italian proposal, the southern Italian one was nearly implemented as-is. The biggest difference is that “Agrigento” had its name changed to “Girgenti”, which seemed more accurate for the period. Conversely, several proposed name changes to pre-existing provinces were not implemented, as they just didn't seem necessary upon review.


“Show us the new map already!” I can hear you guys politely demanding. Fine, fine!


italy_whole.png


Three new countries were added to the map as independent states. In the far north is the Prince-Bishopric of Trent, an Austrian country in control of an Italian province. To the west lies Saluzzo, nervously wedged between Savoy and France. In Romagna, Bologna is now an independent republic coveted by its neighbors.

Alongside these three countries are a couple new potential revolters. Padua and Verona now have cores on their respective provinces and can break away from Venice if the stars align, and Spoleto now exists as a core in Spoleto province, in case the Papal State's control of Central Italy ever starts to fall apart.

If we zoom in a little, more details reveal themselves.


northern italy.png


As the conversation linked at the start of this post highlights, Como originally was not considered, but after some discussion it became apparent that the inclusion of it (or at least something north of Milan) was called for. Thus, Como's complete contours now complement the comprehensive composition of that corner.

The creation of a separate Bologna province also prompted a revision of the remnant of old Romagna province; the old province's capital is now Ravenna, and Ravenna was taken by Venice in 1440 or 1441, so Romagna now starts off under Venetian rather than Papal control, although the Papacy does retain its core on the province. I'm sure this is fine and will definitely not be a source of tension between the two countries.


southern italy.png


Southern Italy was implemented essentially as described above. Sardinia received some attention and now includes Arborea as its own province on the west side of the island, but other Sardinian giudicati were not included primarily for the sake of balance- Sassari province in northern Sardinia has only 3/3/2 development as it is, and splitting that in two would create provinces with as little development as an Uzbek province in the Steppes.

Aside from the obvious mapwork, there is one other thing we added to southern Italy:

two_sicilies.png



And there you have it! Next week, we'll be talking about missions.
 
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Oof, preventing shadow kingdom without dying of ae is going to be even harder now. Still, overall it looks good.
 
One more change that you can see (one of my favourite changes to the Italian map) is the rejigged impassible mountains - now there is a direct connection between Savoy and Piedmont, and some more impassibles have been added in the eastern Alps to add a bit more strategic value to the mountain passes. This adds a lot of fun to northern Italian play :)


That point is awesome. It now seems that northern Italy can be made as quite of a Stronghold. It will be way more viable in my opinion, and it nicely add with the appearance of Como. I quite hope that we will have the same thing occuring in the Balkans (making possible a Skanderberg strategy against the Ottos), Hungary (which is quite opened in the South) and France. France is already lots of fun to defend against angry coalitions of country that cant accept they rightfully belong to France. But Vosges and Jura seems way too easy to cross. And it would provide a bigger possibility for german minors to resist both the Austrian and French anger. At least early game. Then it would become a strategic point, millions of soldiers die conquering in MP.

About Italy you just made an awesome job. From a player perspective it seems now that Italian majors will be key now. I'm more and more attracted to this DLC. I have though a question.
You will show us next Week the missions for Italy, and after it, probably Austria map, then its mission, etc. Are we to have some new mechanics and games reform after you present us the "new" countries? Will we have any work on trade goods (new one, new effect), or can we know what the new provinces will have has a trade good?

I cant wait for France but i feel the country will be the one to be reworked the most (and its needed, gameplay wise, historically wise, and player opinion wise :D) . So on one hand i hope we dont have any news before end of July, because that will mean soooooo much new content. But on the other hand, you'll probably refuse to correct the few mistakes that will probably occur and that @Mingmung will point out !


Once more, much respect for your job.
 
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Let the ones who know Italy and it’s history judge, please. You are all fueling this nightmare.
I probably do not know Italy, yet, i would humbly point out that i was speaking about the military gameplay. And i think that with 2k5 hours on EUIV i might be able to consider what is a good change and what is not concerning "how to wage war in Europe".

(i'm a huge fan or your suggestions, but i dont understand the problem between it and the *new* map)
 
Ummmmm compared to how decent new Germany is, this is a bit underwhelming. :/

I hoped for more, at least in North Italy. Vicenza, Macerata, Piombino, Massa, Rimini, Benevento, all would have made fine additions of reasonable size
 
@Ofaloaf please change the terrible province name of Terracina. If you guys want to be consistent (you rightly chose Girgenti instead of Agrigento) then you must change the name Terracina to:
• Marittima, with the capital in Latina (on the sea)
• Campagna, with the capital in Frosinone (where I believe you put the capital)

Terracina makes no sense whatsoever, ruins Immersion and feels like a joke to those who know Italy.
 
I probably do not know Italy, yet, i would humbly point out that i was speaking about the military gameplay. And i think that with 2k5 hours on EUIV i might be able to consider what is a good change and what is not concerning "how to wage war in Europe".

(i'm a huge fan or your suggestions, but i dont understand the problem between it and the *new* map)

It does not matter how many hours you put in the game. And I’m not saying it’s all bad.

Tuscany, Romagna and Lazio-Umbria are very bad. The rest is good. North and Sourh Italy looks fine, even if I would have chosen Benevento instead of Avellino and I would have put one province less in Sicily.

However, Central Italy is very very flawed and it’s not any better from a strategic point of view. It’s the same. Maybe except from Ravenna, but it’s really a minor thing.

I have already explained other comments why I feels this way and I’m still awaiting a response.
 
Yes! We're looking at a lot of country formation decisions and revising them so that they require fewer specific provinces but a greater number of total provinces in the relevant parts of the world. We might talk about this in more detail at a later point.
Sounds intriguing. Will it be possible to form Italy without Rome, for example. This was always somewhat fishy to me, as the Napoleonic Italy did not include Rome. I know that Form Italy is not meant to be just Napoleonic Italy but all kind of concepts of Italy from the era, but still, I think a Romeless Italy should be possible.
I'm very much looking forward to playing Florence -> Tuscany now that the Pope will no longer have a reason to insta-hate Tuscany for being in the way of connecting Papal land.
 
It does not matter how many hours you put in the game. And I’m not saying it’s all bad.

Tuscany, Romagna and Lazio-Umbria are very bad. The rest is good. North and Sourh Italy looks fine, even if I would have chosen Benevento instead of Avellino and I would have put one province less in Sicily.

However, Central Italy is very very flawed and it’s not any better from a strategic point of view. It’s the same. Maybe except from Ravenna, but it’s really a minor thing.

I have already explained other comments why I feels this way and I’m still awaiting a response.
Yes, i didnt saw your post at first glance cause we posted at the same moment. Let's hope your requests will be met. I was surprised though by you speaking of "nightmare". Dont you consider there is a right evolution between what we had and what we now have?

They probably wont make the same mistake that on GC, so your opinions will be considered. At least i hope so. GC management was awful, and quite disrespectful for the Community. I guess PDX understood that and will be providing us with real content, and use the players knowledge and suggestions.
 
@Ofaloaf thank you for nice map changes!

@neondt will Italian states get some NI overhauls as well? In Multiplayer players(s) in Italy find themselves in a very dangerous position atm:
  • they are kinda landlocked between Austria (HRE Emperor) and France (Big Blue Blob).
  • Maghreb and Balkans are sub-optimal expansion directions
  • France not only has a far superior start, but also overwhelmingly better military quality (land_morale = 0.20, discipline = 0.05, and fire_damage = 0.20 in age of absolutism). On the other hand Milanese (infantry_power = 0.10), Florentine (discipline = 0.05), Papal (discipline = 0.05), and Italian ideas (infantry_power = 0.15) are simply nowhere near to withstand French onslaught when BBB decides to take Genoa.
As a result players on Florence consider discipline = 0.05 a bit better than infantry_power = 0.15 and thus keep original ideas while forming Italy. In my personal opinion all more or less significant Italian states (Papal States, Milan, Florence, Venice, Genoa, Naples) and Italy itself should get one extra military quality modifier equivalent to discipline = 0.05, land_morale = 0.10, infantry_power = 0.10, or fire_damage = 0.10.
 
Yes Kingdom of Two Sicilies

what reward does it give? Unique ideas? Claims? Rank? Missions?

We will surely be adding new ideas to them. More details on that another time.

Someone mentioned Italy's areas. Actually, the result of adding more provinces was that areas ended up looking much nicer now than in 1.28 (even if the colours generated for all of them seem to be conspiring to make it not look so at the moment):

upload_2019-5-21_11-19-32.png
 
Yes, i didnt saw your post at first glance cause we posted at the same moment. Let's hope your requests will be met. I was surprised though by you speaking of "nightmare". Dont you consider there is a right evolution between what we had and what we now have?

When all of the world was at the same level Italy was fine. I could not expect much detail to be honest. But then EU4 started to become more and more detailed and I was very excited. When Art of War came, I remember being very happy about the changes in Italy. Then, I realized standards changed and Italy was not as it should be. Now it’s the last time Europe is gonna be touched upon, so we have no other chance. I raised my voice to make my points reach the developers so that they use this last chance is full. Italy is not at the same level of detail as the other parts of the world, and I am not taking about provinces. Screw provinces. I want a deeper representation of the various Italian states, their relationships, their struggles, their history. Not a mere “big bad boys now bigger and little boys now more”. Independent Bologna, inexistent Perugia and vassal Urbino are the emblem of this. Three vassals of the Pope have three different treatments. Spoleto as a releasable instead of Perugia is the cherry on this bad cake of Central Italy. Province names in Central Italy are also a problem.

But, I don’t know how, I am the only one trying to change the mistakes. I see lots of people who say “seems good to me” and “wow fantastic change” just because they do not know Italy so the devs will follow their praises and deliver a flawed version of Central Italy.

They wont do a GC, so your opinions will be considered.

Who says they won’t? I do not see a big change. We had empty dev diaries for months, and now we have less than ideal maps and premises for the new mechanics, whatever they are.
 
GC management was awful, and quite disrespectful for the Community.

The Spanish Community has far greater numbers. We are a little minority and we mean nothing to the sales revenues and so we mean nothing to the ones who could change things. I am doing my best to be heard but this will be not enough
 
Someone mentioned Italy's areas. Actually, the result of adding more provinces was that areas ended up looking much nicer now than in 1.28 (even if the colours generated for all of them seem to be conspiring to make it not look so at the moment)

Could you please consider splitting Lombardy vertically and not horizontally? It would make much more sense.