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EU4 - Development Diary - 18th of June 2019

Hello and good morning. Today we will finally unveil our long-anticipated changes to the map and political setup of the Balkans, as well as taking a look at Austria. This will be our final dev diary on map changes for the European update.

As befits the fragmented nature of the Balkans, today’s dev diary will be divided into three parts, each written by a member of the Content Design team who personally worked on each region.

dd_greece.png


I’ll begin with my own work on Greece and Bulgaria. You’ll notice that province density has noticeably increased, but rest assured we have taken care to avoid adding a net development boost to the Ottomans. We feel that their current level of development makes them a sufficiently powerful force, and any further advantages would harm the experience for players in their vicinity.

We’ve split the Bulgaria area in two, with most of Bulgaria remaining in “Bulgaria” but with the east in the new Silistria area. Bulgaria in total has gained 3 new provinces: Tolcu, split from Silistre, allows for a more accurate Ottoman-Moldavian border. Tirnovo, once a major cultural, military, and economic center for the Bulgarian Empire, declined under Ottoman rule but remained a thorn in the side of the Turks as it was a hotbed for Bulgarian resistance. Finally, Kyustendil/Kostendil was the center of an Ottoman sanjak and an exploitable mining site.

Thrace and Macedonia have also been updated with new provinces. Edirne has lost its access to the sea to the new province of Gelibolu/Gallipoli, home to a mighty fortress and naval arsenal. Parts of the former Edirne have also been added to the new Gumulcine province. Lastly, Selanik is now confined to the area around the city of Thessaloniki, as Siroz now occupies the outer reaches.

Moving down into Greece proper, a new nation has appeared while another is notable by its absence. Epirus, with its capital in the new province of Arta, is ruled by the Tocco dynasty who for whatever reason were previously represented as the rulers of the Venetian vassal-state of Corfu. Corfu no longer exists in 1444, but it retains its core on the island. Epirus also rules the island of Cephalonia, which has been separated from the Corfu province and gives Epirus the ability to produce wine. Fans of Byzantium will be pleased to hear that they now possess an additional province at the start of the game, based around the historic city of Corinth. And in the Aegean Sea, Lesbos has been split from Scio - Lesbos has a strait connection to Biga while Scio connects to Sugla.

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dd_austria.jpg


I'm @Caligula Caesar, and I'm here to tell you about our changes to Austria. Now, some of you may be aware that there is a good case for splitting Austria in three at the start of the game and requiring them to unify their territories. However, as a team we elected NOT to do this. Our reasoning is simple: For an enjoyable and challenging game on continental Europe, it is necessary for there to be a strong Austria. As Austria is already one of the more vulnerable superpowers in the early game, making their starting position significantly weaker by reducing their directly held territories by 2/3 would simply not make a better game experience.

We felt that Austria's starting development was fine as it was, but its province density was not quite at the level we wanted, so we added some new provinces by splitting existing provinces' development. As we have already shown, Tirol was split between Inntal and Etschtal and South Tirol became Trent, now an independent tag; also, some impassable mountains were added between Tirol and Venetia. Moving east, we split Kärnten in two between Oberkärnten/Villach and Unterkärnten/Klagenfurt. In the north, Linz's province (now known as Oberenns) was reshaped significantly and room was made for Traungau (with the significant ironworking town of Steyr as its capital) to the south of it. Wien province, too, has been split, with Wienerwald/Sankt Pölten taking its place to the west.

Finally, in the south, we added the Slovene culture. This culture is present in Görz, Krain and Celje. The last of those is owned by a new tag, the Counts of Cilli - known by their German name as its rulers were the German von Cilli family (the tag itself retains Slovene culture, however, and has some dynamic province names for surrounding areas).

Now on to @Ofaloaf 's work on the Western Balkans:

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dd_serbia.jpg


This work owes a tremendous amount to @otaats and his suggestions in Serbia & friends, which (in a truncated form) served as an inspiration. I also want to give a shoutout to @Wokeg, whose enthusiasm for the region and its history has been an excellent inspiration and motivation.

Most of the mapwork simply provides greater provincial fidelity, but there are some significant changes and additions. Starting with the smaller stuff, Venetian holdings along the Adriatic coast are better defined, with old Dalmatian province now split between Zara and Spalato and Cattaro now spun off from the province of Zeta. Albania also gets a second province, Krüje, which was one of the strongholds of the Albanian ruler Skanderbeg. Fortified and mountainous, Krüje should be a real pain to crack early in the game.

One of the most major additions to the region is the inclusion of Herzegovina. It's a relatively new state in 1444, being largely the creation of Stjepan Vukčić, who inherited those lands in 1435. Stjepan was an incredibly ambitious nobleman who took on the title of herceg (borrowed from German herzog) and ruled a portion of the Kingdom of Bosnia as a de facto independent realm called the Duchy of Saint Sava, which is the name its contemporaries knew it as. While Stjepan had the chops for independent rule, his sons weren't quite as canny, and in 1483 the realm was conquered by advancing Ottoman forces. However, Stjepan's title, herceg, lived on in the Ottoman name for the territory, and this eventually became the name Herzegovina, which is what we know the area now as and, for the sake of familiarity, the name which the realm (and its capital province) is called in-game.

You may have also noticed that Croatia is now present on the map. It starts in a union under Hungary, and depending on Hungarian fortunes may now either break away in one fell swoop or be more firmly incorporated into the Crown of St. Stephen. While the inclusion of Croatia does provide some interesting opportunities for Hungarian expansion or wresting parts of the Hungarian domain away from Budapest, the inclusion of Croatia as a separate entity has called for a little historical fudging. Rule of Croatia and Slavonia was split in 1444, although the two entities were ruled by Croatian brothers at the time of the Grand Campaign, and the titles would be merged together into a united Banate in 1476. To prevent Hungarian diplomatic relations from being eaten up by subjects and give it a slightly more powerful vassal to keep in check, Croatia here is unified slightly early.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for reading this and our other map-based dev diaries, it’s been a pleasure to present our work to you and to read your feedback and ideas. Next week we will take a look at some of the new mission trees coming to this region - most likely Austria, one of the Balkan minors, and something you might not expect. We’ll also talk a little about the Hungarian succession. Until then, have a great week!
 
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Delurker

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After the Jewish expulsions in Spain, many Jews went to Thessalonika. In 1519, Jews were 53% of the population and in 1613, around 68%. Any events to replicate this? The province could get a unique modifier where whoever holds it gets good loans at low rates plus a large provincial trade bonus and extra Jewish advisors at discount upkeep. Also by holding this province you could get an event where it gives you a core on conquering Jerusalem so that the population can move there and then you can form Jerusalem and have them as a vassal. Could be useful for a Byzantine player to use as a fast way to reconquer the Levant.

I was also going to ask about Thessaloniki becoming Jewish in this patch, now that it is a separate province. Will that happen, and will there be an event about the growth of Sabbateanism there? It could have led to a moderate-sized Jewish revolt if things had gone a little differently, which would be a cool event to have. However, I don't agree with @Metz 's idea about giving a core on Jerusalem - the Ottomans held Jerusalem for centuries but the Jewish population in their empire didn't, to the best of my knowledge, meaningfully move from Thessaloniki or Istanbul to Jerusalem in the game's time-frame.
 
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Mr. Habba

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I don't want to complain too much, but you should be thinking about re-naming the provinces in Tirol. As they are, they are... a disaster.

For example: the Inntal (literally: "Inn valley") province isn't anywhere close to the actual valley it is named after. The Etschtal province ("Etsch valley") at least touches its namesake river, even if barely. The province is pretty much named after a river that forms its southern border in game.

A better solution would be to rename the current Inntal to Reutte and to rename the current Etschtal province to Innsbruck. The current Trient province is a bit too far to the North to be historically correct, but if you really want to better represent the situation without actually changing the map, it would already be a big help to rename Trient to Etschland (at least if held by a German culture). There is even some historical basis for this, since the Bavarians called the area around Trient Etschkreis when they ruled the region in 1808.
 
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FleetingRain

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Yes and no. In the case of France, France is clearly stronger than any of its vassals, and can probably outclass all of them by itself. In other words, it will be able to deal with having so many, though obviously diplo slots is an issue we have had to address by doing [REDACTED]. On the other hand, the weakened Austria would basically control the six or so provinces in the north-east of the country. Styria and Tirol would each be just as strong, and really they would have to be under PU rather than vassals. This would weaken Austria in the following ways, due to more of Austria being held by the subjects than by Austria:
- High liberty desire in Styria and Tirol; also, PUs being relatively unstable overlord-subject relationships that would have to last for 50 years => relatively high chance of the subjects breaking free.
- Austria, as the Emperor, can use an inflated force limit. However, it would not be able to make use of that significantly as it would not have the resources to pay for a large army. In other words, you'd have a fairly weak Emperor right from game start.
- Austria would lose two relations slots unless we made another custom solution for them.

All of those factors would be exacerbated massively if Austria pursues its PUs with Hungary and Bohemia. Basically, those would probably not happen.

Bruh, Timurids have a "custom solution" that just amounts to a special ruler modifier reducing Liberty Desire. How in the heavens would it be difficult for Styria to have two vassals and a ruler modifier for +2 diplomatic slots?

EDIT-- or even better, maybe vassals could cost no diploslot if they are of the same dynasty.
 
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Mingmung

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I'm quite annoyed about Kirkilise, though:
1) Kirkkilise is not in its province, but in Edirne (which is fine, as Kirkilise shouldn't be its own province).
2) Burgas seems to still be its capital (not fine, it was a village).

Burgas delenda est.

Also, Austria was weak at the beginning of 1444. Corvinus even conquered parts of it. It only rose to power when it united around 1490. This can be perfectly portrayed in EU4 with some new tags, vassals and good events and modifiers.

The Austrian rework is just really, really weak.
 
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Caligula Caesar

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Why did Inntal(Tirol) and Salzburg get separated? Is this a balancing thing because as HRE you can march through Bavaria anyway so I'm not sure why

The Rosenheim province includes Kufstein, which was held by one of the Bavarian duchies until around 1500.
 

natevandrake

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I don't want to complain too much, but you should be thinking about re-naming the provinces in Tirol. As they are, they are... a disaster.

For example: the Inntal (literally: "Inn valley") province isn't anywhere close to the actual valley it is named after. The Etschtal province ("Etsch valley") at least touches its namesake river, even if barely. The province is pretty much named after a river that forms its southern border in game.

A better solution would be to rename the current Inntal to Reutte and to rename the current Etschtal province to Innsbruck. The current Trient province is a bit too far to the North to be historically correct, but if you really want to better represent the situation without actually changing the map, it would already be a big help to rename Trient to Etschland (at least if held by a German culture). There is even some historical basis for this, since the Bavarians called the area around Trient Etschkreis when they ruled the region in 1808.

I agree partially with what you are saying. I think South Tyrol should be Bozen/Bolzano(if Italian owned). I don't think Vorarlberg is justified without a separate province (with maybe swiss culture) and I'm not suggesting it's needed but could be interesting. Innsbruck is still the largest City in the 'North Tyrol' province. And you have the silver mines in Schwaz which are even further from Vorarlberg. I wouldn't be against it being left as Tyrol.

The Rosenheim province includes Kufstein, which was held by one of the Bavarian duchies until around 1500.

Thanks! I did not know that
 

Mingmung

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The Rosenheim province includes Kufstein, which was held by one of the Bavarian duchies until around 1500.
Please for the love of God, rename Rosenheim. Wasserburg was more prominent and under control of Ingolstadt.

It was veryyyyy small during much of EU4. Also, Rosenheim was under control of Landshut.
 
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Caligula Caesar

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Please for the love of God, rename Rosenheim.

It was veryyyyy small during much of EU4.

I'd not be opposed to doing so (it's still pretty small now :p ), but I don't want to change the province's ownership or shape.
 

gougluinn

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Why are the Aegean Islands still part of Anatolia region? I would definitely move them to Balkans.
some of those islands are max. 500 meters away from anatolian coast. those islands should belong to the one who holds anatolia logically. otherwise you can see a lot disccussions about continental shelf like nowadays :D
 

Vohen

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Yes and no. In the case of France, France is clearly stronger than any of its vassals, and can probably outclass all of them by itself. In other words, it will be able to deal with having so many, though obviously diplo slots is an issue we have had to address by doing [REDACTED]. On the other hand, the weakened Austria would basically control the six or so provinces in the north-east of the country. Styria and Tirol would each be just as strong, and really they would have to be under PU rather than vassals. This would weaken Austria in the following ways, due to more of Austria being held by the subjects than by Austria:
- High liberty desire in Styria and Tirol; also, PUs being relatively unstable overlord-subject relationships that would have to last for 50 years => relatively high chance of the subjects breaking free.
- Austria, as the Emperor, can use an inflated force limit. However, it would not be able to make use of that significantly as it would not have the resources to pay for a large army. In other words, you'd have a fairly weak Emperor right from game start.
- Austria would lose two relations slots unless we made another custom solution for them.

All of those factors would be exacerbated massively if Austria pursues its PUs with Hungary and Bohemia. Basically, those would probably not happen.
I'd argue that Austria is actually really underpowered right now, at least for the AI.
Not in raw strength, but in terms of it's diplomatic game, I often see them losing the empire and end up being swallowed by Bohemia (which I'd argue that is to powerful in comparison).
 

Mingmung

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I'd not be opposed to doing so (it's still pretty small now :p ), but I don't want to change the province's ownership or shape.
Wasserburg is in the correct location, but was under control of Bavaria-Ingolstadt. So, yeah, if you want accuracy, owners have to change. Even if Rosenheim stays what it is, as the town was under control of Landshut.

Bavaria-Munich has nothing there, why would ownership-change be such a problem? The division of Bavaria would still be 2-2-3, instead of 3-2-2.
 
Last edited:

vahanin

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Finally, in the south, we added the Slovene culture. This culture is present in Görz, Krain and Celje. The last of those is owned by a new tag, the Counts of Cilli - known by their German name as its rulers were the German von Cilli family (the tag itself retains Slovene culture, however, and has some dynamic province names for surrounding areas).

Mutual inheritance contracts work both ways: As Count of Cilli inherit lands of Habsburgs
 

Willem IV

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@neondt I would suggest to move Ohri to the Macedonia area, Gumulcine to Thrace, Kirkkilise/Burgas to Silistria, Tirnovo to Bulgaria, Vidion to Serbia and Nis to Rascia. This will generate more beautiful area’s while maintaining the same amount of provinces for each area. Silistria will becomne a true Black Sea Coast area like the Ottoman Silistra Eyalet used to be.

p.s. Even move the northern part of Edirne to Kirkkilise/Burgas…
 

Mingmung

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people asking for a divided Austria are actually asking for an Ottoman Europe
Check my thread. Also; loyal vassal-swarms make for better armies early-game than having them integrated. Also, a few historical events would be necessary.

Just check my thread. If they divide even Bavaria, it's arbitrary to leave Austria out.
 

Dsingis

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Well, to make up for the weaker starting power, a split Austria could get a good power buff either by free development, or strong temporal military modifiers, or whatever after uniting Austria.
There are ways to make up for that initial weakness if the only concern is for game balance and enjoyment. Disregarding history for game balance instead of balancing the game around history seems a bit odd to me.