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EU4 - Development Diary - 18th of June 2019

Hello and good morning. Today we will finally unveil our long-anticipated changes to the map and political setup of the Balkans, as well as taking a look at Austria. This will be our final dev diary on map changes for the European update.

As befits the fragmented nature of the Balkans, today’s dev diary will be divided into three parts, each written by a member of the Content Design team who personally worked on each region.

dd_greece.png


I’ll begin with my own work on Greece and Bulgaria. You’ll notice that province density has noticeably increased, but rest assured we have taken care to avoid adding a net development boost to the Ottomans. We feel that their current level of development makes them a sufficiently powerful force, and any further advantages would harm the experience for players in their vicinity.

We’ve split the Bulgaria area in two, with most of Bulgaria remaining in “Bulgaria” but with the east in the new Silistria area. Bulgaria in total has gained 3 new provinces: Tolcu, split from Silistre, allows for a more accurate Ottoman-Moldavian border. Tirnovo, once a major cultural, military, and economic center for the Bulgarian Empire, declined under Ottoman rule but remained a thorn in the side of the Turks as it was a hotbed for Bulgarian resistance. Finally, Kyustendil/Kostendil was the center of an Ottoman sanjak and an exploitable mining site.

Thrace and Macedonia have also been updated with new provinces. Edirne has lost its access to the sea to the new province of Gelibolu/Gallipoli, home to a mighty fortress and naval arsenal. Parts of the former Edirne have also been added to the new Gumulcine province. Lastly, Selanik is now confined to the area around the city of Thessaloniki, as Siroz now occupies the outer reaches.

Moving down into Greece proper, a new nation has appeared while another is notable by its absence. Epirus, with its capital in the new province of Arta, is ruled by the Tocco dynasty who for whatever reason were previously represented as the rulers of the Venetian vassal-state of Corfu. Corfu no longer exists in 1444, but it retains its core on the island. Epirus also rules the island of Cephalonia, which has been separated from the Corfu province and gives Epirus the ability to produce wine. Fans of Byzantium will be pleased to hear that they now possess an additional province at the start of the game, based around the historic city of Corinth. And in the Aegean Sea, Lesbos has been split from Scio - Lesbos has a strait connection to Biga while Scio connects to Sugla.

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dd_austria.jpg


I'm @Caligula Caesar, and I'm here to tell you about our changes to Austria. Now, some of you may be aware that there is a good case for splitting Austria in three at the start of the game and requiring them to unify their territories. However, as a team we elected NOT to do this. Our reasoning is simple: For an enjoyable and challenging game on continental Europe, it is necessary for there to be a strong Austria. As Austria is already one of the more vulnerable superpowers in the early game, making their starting position significantly weaker by reducing their directly held territories by 2/3 would simply not make a better game experience.

We felt that Austria's starting development was fine as it was, but its province density was not quite at the level we wanted, so we added some new provinces by splitting existing provinces' development. As we have already shown, Tirol was split between Inntal and Etschtal and South Tirol became Trent, now an independent tag; also, some impassable mountains were added between Tirol and Venetia. Moving east, we split Kärnten in two between Oberkärnten/Villach and Unterkärnten/Klagenfurt. In the north, Linz's province (now known as Oberenns) was reshaped significantly and room was made for Traungau (with the significant ironworking town of Steyr as its capital) to the south of it. Wien province, too, has been split, with Wienerwald/Sankt Pölten taking its place to the west.

Finally, in the south, we added the Slovene culture. This culture is present in Görz, Krain and Celje. The last of those is owned by a new tag, the Counts of Cilli - known by their German name as its rulers were the German von Cilli family (the tag itself retains Slovene culture, however, and has some dynamic province names for surrounding areas).

Now on to @Ofaloaf 's work on the Western Balkans:

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dd_serbia.jpg


This work owes a tremendous amount to @otaats and his suggestions in Serbia & friends, which (in a truncated form) served as an inspiration. I also want to give a shoutout to @Wokeg, whose enthusiasm for the region and its history has been an excellent inspiration and motivation.

Most of the mapwork simply provides greater provincial fidelity, but there are some significant changes and additions. Starting with the smaller stuff, Venetian holdings along the Adriatic coast are better defined, with old Dalmatian province now split between Zara and Spalato and Cattaro now spun off from the province of Zeta. Albania also gets a second province, Krüje, which was one of the strongholds of the Albanian ruler Skanderbeg. Fortified and mountainous, Krüje should be a real pain to crack early in the game.

One of the most major additions to the region is the inclusion of Herzegovina. It's a relatively new state in 1444, being largely the creation of Stjepan Vukčić, who inherited those lands in 1435. Stjepan was an incredibly ambitious nobleman who took on the title of herceg (borrowed from German herzog) and ruled a portion of the Kingdom of Bosnia as a de facto independent realm called the Duchy of Saint Sava, which is the name its contemporaries knew it as. While Stjepan had the chops for independent rule, his sons weren't quite as canny, and in 1483 the realm was conquered by advancing Ottoman forces. However, Stjepan's title, herceg, lived on in the Ottoman name for the territory, and this eventually became the name Herzegovina, which is what we know the area now as and, for the sake of familiarity, the name which the realm (and its capital province) is called in-game.

You may have also noticed that Croatia is now present on the map. It starts in a union under Hungary, and depending on Hungarian fortunes may now either break away in one fell swoop or be more firmly incorporated into the Crown of St. Stephen. While the inclusion of Croatia does provide some interesting opportunities for Hungarian expansion or wresting parts of the Hungarian domain away from Budapest, the inclusion of Croatia as a separate entity has called for a little historical fudging. Rule of Croatia and Slavonia was split in 1444, although the two entities were ruled by Croatian brothers at the time of the Grand Campaign, and the titles would be merged together into a united Banate in 1476. To prevent Hungarian diplomatic relations from being eaten up by subjects and give it a slightly more powerful vassal to keep in check, Croatia here is unified slightly early.

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Thank you all for reading this and our other map-based dev diaries, it’s been a pleasure to present our work to you and to read your feedback and ideas. Next week we will take a look at some of the new mission trees coming to this region - most likely Austria, one of the Balkan minors, and something you might not expect. We’ll also talk a little about the Hungarian succession. Until then, have a great week!
 
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ForVictory

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Yeah it was only because of the arrogance of the Hungarian king who died at the battle of Mohacs without heir, which is a very rare instance in history, that the Ottomans were able to annex a part of Hungary.
 

TheDungen

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you do know that historically the ottomans had a lot of trouble with hungary right? plenty of times hungary twarted Ottoman plans and at the start date Hungary about to get one of its strongest kings as well as the establisment of the black army. realistically Hungary should be able to do 1v1 with the ottomans.
Not reliably, being able to hold the ottomans off for a time is impressive enough, but eventually Hungary ran out of exceptional leaders and exceptional circumstances and the sheer difference in size between them and their enemies caught up to them. Hungary shouldn't be a pushover but being able to reliably win wars 1v1 versus the ottomans is something else.

Yeah it was only because of the arrogance of the Hungarian king who died at the battle of Mohacs without heir, which is a very rare instance in history, that the Ottomans were able to annex a part of Hungary.
I disagree, the ottomans invaded time and time again and yes they were driven back time and time again but the ottomans always recovered from their losses and Hungary never managed to press it's advantage. It was more along the line of if you attack someone enough times then sooner or later he'll make a mistake or the circumstances will turn out in your favour. The ottomans had that king of military power to waste, Hungary did not. There were by no means equal.
The problem is that in the game as it is the AI always treats every war as if it was a total and absolute war.
 
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ChloePech

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Renaming Südtirol to Trent is supremely offensive. Please at least give it a dynamic name; but for christs sake, they arent the same place, not the same culture. This only proves Mussolini succeeded, the bastard.
 

Semi-Lobster

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Ibiza is a joke; indeed.

I'm not saying Ibiza wasn't somewhat important but compared to other needed insular provinces, it's completely unnecessarily, we haven't gotten a lot of feedback about Corsica, Cyprus and Crete from Paradox, hopefully this isn't the "last chance" to ever see new provinces for these large islands.

Renaming Südtirol to Trent is supremely offensive. Please at least give it a dynamic name; but for christs sake, they arent the same place, not the same culture. This only proves Mussolini succeeded, the bastard.

The province is not called Trent, the province clearly says "Trient" which IS the German name of both the main city and polity of the province (Hochstift Trient).
 

Xetfield

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The case with province is a case about states. Devs said many times that they won't make states with more than 5 provinces. Also, right now Corsica, Cyprus and Crete have decent dev, but with the division it will be level of Siberia.
 

Semi-Lobster

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The case with province is a case about states. Devs said many times that they won't make states with more than 5 provinces. Also, right now Corsica, Cyprus and Crete have decent dev, but with the division it will be level of Siberia.

In the case of states and Corsica at least, the easiest and simplest solution would be to give Corsica another province and then do... nothing. Corsica does not have its own state and it has already been stated by devs that they are actively trying to eliminate 2 province states. Corsica is currently in the "Western Mediterranean Islands" state along with all provinces in Sardinia. Sardinia is getting a new state (Arborea) bringing the total number of provinces in the state from the current 3, to 4. Adding another province to Corsica would simply result with a state with 5 provinces, of which there are many 5 province states.

For dev values, those are gamey and arbitrary to begin with. My main concern is if the map is capable of representing historical events or not, and currently a single province Corsica does not properly abstract the political situation in Corsica in the mid 15th century.

As for Cyprus and Crete, I'm less well versed in their history, but I do know the invasion of Cyprus was a two part operation, first taking the fortress of Nicosia and then a longer drawn out siege of Famagusta. A similar, much more evident case can be made for Crete, given that most of the Kingdom of Candia was swiftly taken by the Ottomans but the Siege of Candia itself took 21 years (1648 to 1669). I think that feat in itself should justify reexamined Crete being a single, easy province to take.
 
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tioperete

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Those all who speak about Ibiza, should take into account that the population of Sardinia, Cyprus and the Balearic islands is similar, while Crete's is around 1/2 and Corsica's 1/4.

The problem is not the 3 Balearic provinces, is the other islands having only one.
 

Pbhuh

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Those all who speak about Ibiza, should take into account that the population of Sardinia, Cyprus and the Balearic islands is similar, while Crete's is around 1/2 and Corsica's 1/4.

The problem is not the 3 Balearic provinces, is the other islands having only one.

Well that is taking modern population in account with modern economics. The baleares had little economic importance before the advent of tourism. Thus immigration to those islands would have been limited to traders.

Here we can probably assume that Crete, Cyrpus and Sardinia were of more importance and probably had higher populations compared to the baleares.
 

tioperete

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Well that is taking modern population in account with modern economics. The baleares had little economic importance before the advent of tourism. Thus immigration to those islands would have been limited to traders.

Here we can probably assume that Crete, Cyrpus and Sardinia were of more importance and probably had higher populations compared to the baleares.

No.

Mallorca was an important port in that time, and at that moment the Balearic islands doubled Cyprus and Crete in population, no need to speak about Corsica, while Sardinia doubled Balearic pop.

Tourism only is a "partial recovery" of early modern period's economy.


Edit: and Palma was bigger than any Sardinian city, but the archipelago was less populated than the whole isle of Sardinia.
 
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ChloePech

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The province is not called Trent, the province clearly says "Trient" which IS the German name of both the main city and polity of the province (Hochstift Trient).

The dev diary says Trent; I struggle to read that warped text on screen. Still don't like it; Südtirol is in line with the other names in the Tirol, otherwise Innsbruck/Innsanna would be a province. Its a break that shows their unwillingness to refer to it by its proper and historical name. Plus, Trient's power waned significantly leading up to the time period of Eu4 compared to Bozn.
 

Bandua_of_Gallaecia

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Those all who speak about Ibiza, should take into account that the population of Sardinia, Cyprus and the Balearic islands is similar, while Crete's is around 1/2 and Corsica's 1/4.

The problem is not the 3 Balearic provinces, is the other islands having only one.

The problem about Ibiza is that it was added in the GC when Castille and Portugal got shafted and didn't get some of the very important provinces people were asking for, and instead we got an irrelevant Ibiza (among a few other poor decisions).
 

tioperete

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The problem about Ibiza is that it was added in the GC when Castille and Portugal got shafted and didn't get some of the very important provinces people were asking for, and instead we got an irrelevant Ibiza (among a few other poor decisions).

They shoulf have added an achievement for Germany to conquer it.
 

BalticM

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The problem about Ibiza is that it was added in the GC when Castille and Portugal got shafted and didn't get some of the very important provinces people were asking for, and instead we got an irrelevant Ibiza (among a few other poor decisions).

I think that EUIV is starting to lose sense of reality.
4 provinces of Western Pomerania is just mere 100k inhabittants in year 1800 - approx 5 times less than that of East Pomerania or 30 times less than Portugal. It used to be single province in 4-province united Pomerania. Now 4. Which means 4 shipyards - nearly as many as Portugal may have in Iberia.
For you as player it will take no more than 100 years to make those 4 provinces a paradise far above Portugal potential. And those 100 years is usually the time I end up my campaign as it starts to get too boring.
 

TheDungen

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I think that EUIV is starting to lose sense of reality.
4 provinces of Western Pomerania is just mere 100k inhabittants in year 1800 - approx 5 times less than that of East Pomerania or 30 times less than Portugal. It used to be single province in 4-province united Pomerania. Now 4. Which means 4 shipyards - nearly as many as Portugal may have in Iberia.
For you as player it will take no more than 100 years to make those 4 provinces a paradise far above Portugal potential. And those 100 years is usually the time I end up my campaign as it starts to get too boring.
Buildings should be built at a state level instead of on a province level and also all buildings should be modified by development.

Increasing provinces make sense because it makes army movement more granular, but if that is the goal then that is essentially the only thing provinces should be used for.
 

MateuszNH

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@neondt Will most of European tags get new ideas? Will majors have same stuff or will they stay the same ? I don't want to ask anything specified because i guess u won't tell, but atleast give some meat of the bone to considerate before tommorow :p
 

tioperete

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I think that EUIV is starting to lose sense of reality.
4 provinces of Western Pomerania is just mere 100k inhabittants in year 1800 - approx 5 times less than that of East Pomerania or 30 times less than Portugal. It used to be single province in 4-province united Pomerania. Now 4. Which means 4 shipyards - nearly as many as Portugal may have in Iberia.
For you as player it will take no more than 100 years to make those 4 provinces a paradise far above Portugal potential. And those 100 years is usually the time I end up my campaign as it starts to get too boring.

That's why development should be dynamical, similar to MEIOU system, and no click to instadevelop
 

NaiveCarto

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The thing is, there is plenty of English stuff around for regions like Poland and Hungary. Plenty of sources, maps and descriptions. Russia, for example, is already quite represented (the European parts, that is). The steppes could be far better, yes, but it looks quite decent if you take into account its population and the like (the Volga area does need an update, though, the Steppes are a hard area to properly find stuff for).

But Hungary? It really needs another update. It was wealthy, had the renaissance, many provinces. It needs an update along with Romania (which needs its borders fixed). Lithuania is not that fleshed out, either. Unique mechanics seem to skip these nations, as well.

like this:

(why I cant make attached files in my post?)
 

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