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EU4 - Development Diary - 16th of May 2017

Hi everyone, and welcome to another Europa Universalis development diary. I hope you all enjoyed PdxCon last weekend, either in person or from watching the streams.

As you all know, we announced our new Immersion Pack, Third Rome, which will be out in June this year for 9.99$. So what is an immersion pack then? Well, it is something between a full expansion and a small graphics pack, similar to the story pack Leviathans for Stellaris.

Closest comparison to Third Rome of our previous releases for EU4 would be Wealth of Nations when it comes to amount and size of features. Third Rome also comes bundled with a portrait pack for russians, and 3 new sprite-packs, for 12 countries in the russian region, including Ryazan, Lithuania and Perm.

So, what cool features will we talk about today then?

We’re adding three new russian government types. The actual types are in the free patch, but the abilities we give them as well, belong to the Immersion Pack.

Veche Republic
This is a new republic form, which works like a merchant republic and have access to the russian abilities as well. They are always duchy rank, and their bonus is +1 merchant. Novgorod and Pskov starts as Veche Republics. It also gives +3 to states.

Principality
This is the new monarchy governmentform, which all russian monarchies start with. It has access to the russian abilities, and while they are locked to duchy rank, they have a bonus of -1 unrest and +5% Tax Modifier. It also gives +3 to states.

Tsardom
This government form is given when forming Russia, and is automatically empire rank. Besides giving +10 to amount of states and access to the russian abilities, it gives the following bonuses. +20% Manpower, +0.1 Yearly Absolutism & -0.05 monthly autonomy.

eu4_43.png



The russian abilities work like this. All actions have a bar to fill up before they can be used. Bar fill up from 0 - 100, increasing yearly by the ruler’s monarch point in the category, and a base +3. The actual bar can hold 150, so you don’t lose by not using it immediately.
  • The Administrative ability is called Reform Sudebnik, and reduces autonomy by 10% in all provinces you own.
  • The diplomatic ability is called Support Oprichnina, and reduces progress of all your rebelfactions by 30% each.
  • The military ability is called Raise Streltsy, and reduces war exhaustion by 2, and raises 20% of your forcelimit as Streltsy Infantry in your capital.

So what is Streltsy units? Previously we had three categories of units, with regulars, mercenaries & banners. In 1.22 there are two more categories added, and one of those is the Streltsy.

Streltsy arrive at full strength, but low morale, and do not cost manpower nor gold at recruit, but otherwise works like a regular unit, if not for two distinct differences. First, the amount of streltsy compared to your force.limit increases your stability costs, while each streltsy regiment provides +10% fire damage.

The other category we add for 1.22 is Cossacks, which is there for everyone that bought the “The Cossacks” expansion. Cossacks work like regulars, except they do +10% extra shock damage.

Cossacks are recruited as an estate interaction, where each province assigned to the Cossacks estate will give you 1 cavalry cossack regiment.

Of course, fittingly for the focus on this update, we have added three new interactions to the Cossacks estate.
  • Conscripting Elites: gain army tradition, lose loyalty
  • Supply Arms: lose MIL, gain loyalty and influence
  • Permit Self Governance: give autonomy to cossack lands, gain loyalty and influence

Next week, we’ll take a deeper look into more abilities of Russia and the Tsardom.
 

Uglyr

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Don't know. First it seems like all features are just unnecessary buffs that make Russia even stronger. I hoped for more interesting content and Orthodox faith made more deep. Something competitive like HRE or Papal influence.

And why the Tsardom is Empire rank? IMHO Kingdom rank is much more suitable for forming state, and Empire rank should be achieved later after more conquest/colonizing/reaching Pacific.
I tend to agree with wiki:
The Tsardom of Russia was the name of the centralized Russian state from assumption of the title of Tsar by Ivan IV in 1547 until the foundation of the Russian Empire by Peter the Great in 1721
 

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And why the Tsardom is Empire rank? IMHO Kingdom rank is much more suitable for forming state, and Empire rank should be achieved later after more conquest/colonizing/reaching Pacific.

"Tsar" was used to describe Byzantine Emperores by slavic people. Peter just "renamed" it to feel more European.
 

otaats

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Don't know. First it seems like all features are just unnecessary buffs that make Russia even stronger. I hoped for more interesting content and Orthodox faith made more deep. Something competitive like HRE or Papal influence.

And why the Tsardom is Empire rank? IMHO Kingdom rank is much more suitable for forming state, and Empire rank should be achieved later after more conquest/colonizing/reaching Pacific.
I tend to agree with wiki:

Tsar=Emperor (in Slavic), thus every Slavic empire had a tsar as its emperor (Russian Empire, Serbian Empire, Bulgarian Empire)
Tsardom=Empire
Russian centralized state=Russian Empire
Why wouldn't it achieve the imperial rank once the empire of Russia is formed?

I hate to be this guy, however I will further attempt to bore the community.
While I really like the new content, it just reinforces the things that I have already been saying. They boil down to 2 points:

1) The hordes need another buff, otherwise you'll see Muscovy in Manchuria 150 or so years too early. I understand it's really hard to balance and I have no positive ideas of my own, which is why I am posting it here and not in the suggestions threads.

2) A rework of how the steppe colonization works, in particular the fact that you need to convert the Tartars to russify the steppes. The Tartars are still Muslim to this day, there has to be some way to introduce an internal culture conversion mechanic that works without religious conversion, but for example is way more expensive. Alternatively, as noted earlier, perhaps there can be a CB for all nations that border a horde to make the horde "vacate" certain provinces in a peace deal. These provinces then are colonizable but also get a sizable and hostile native population. Perhaps it would make sense so that it would be forbidden to genocide them - or better still prohibitively expensive.

Anyway, other than that I'm really excited about all the new cool stuff, hopefully Muscovy and the PLC will start thrashing each other as they historically did, 'cause right now the only direction Muscovy ever expands is east.

Muscovy/Russia's really been going at it lately. My latest playthrough looks like this (and most of my recent ones have Tunis/Andalusia conquering North Africa and Iberia, Austria annexed, PLC smashed to pieces..)

7DDB4E293F19C4E3A536B667495133CE218EF5E1


My 'problems' with most of my scenarios:

- Spain and Portugal get defeated by a muslim alliance far too often, far too easy. Morocco and Tunis are not minor countries, but they shouldn't even be able to cross the Gibraltar given how large the Spanish and the Portuguese fleet is compared to theirs. In this game, Spain and Portugal got eaten in a single war with Tunis, who already had all of Morocco and northern Africa, forming Andalusia. The very same thing happened in my past few games. Spain loses all major wars. I understand Spain was nowhere as powerful as France militarily, but it should be able to put up a very staggering resistance, especially to the Moorish conquerors.

- Russian manpower/force limit compared to the Ottomans/France/eventually Ming is pretty realistic IMO, and i like how it now naturally expands East nowadays. Maybe they should be slightly nerfed early game though.. They expand southwards unstoppably and they trash the Commonwealth and Sweden. The Ottomans are still stronger 1 on 1, but in every war Russians just avoid any battle until the enemy hits 0 manpower. I destroyed Ottomans+Andalusia three times with the Russians as my allies.

- Something needs to be done to central Europe. Poland and Lithuania nearly always fail miserably. I'm not one of the people that suggests that we make 10+ provinces in Lithuania/Kiev region, but maybe Poland could use just a slight buff. Their territory gets conquered all the time, Commonwealth or no Commonwealth.

- Hungary's still too weak to put up a fight versus the Ottomans.. That's because they are usually the ones guaranteeing doomed Balkan minors. In my opinion, what would enormously enhance gameplay with Hungary and Balkan minors, would be an ability to create a sort of a 'Balkan League' which would work as a coalition/nat.american federation of some sorts, and only the Balkan minors and the Hungarian allies can join it. It would reflect the wars against the Ottomans on European soil. Most of the time, all of the minors combined to fight the Ottomans (in real life, Hungary, Serbia, Wallachia and Albania fought a couple of successful wars against the Ottomans in the exact era of game start. In game, this alliance is impossible to create because none of the countries will ally the third one, being probably their rival etc. I'd really love to see something done with the region. As of right now, the countries are picked apart far too easily. If anyone can read into what i'm trying to say, i'd love to elaborate on the idea of the Balkan League, if anyone's interested.
 
Last edited:

al.gb

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- Spain and Portugal get defeated by a muslim alliance far too often, far too easy. Morocco and Tunis are not minor countries, but they shouldn't even be able to cross the Gibraltar given how large the Spanish and the Portuguese fleet is compared to theirs. In this game, Spain and Portugal got eaten in a single war with Tunis, who already had all of Morocco and northern Africa, forming Andalusia. The very same thing happened in my past few games. Spain loses all major wars. I understand Spain was nowhere as powerful as France militarily, but it should be able to put up a very staggering resistance, especially to the Moorish conquerors.
Yep. Spain, Portugal and even France after start of colonisation just spread their forces all over the world. In fact, they have virtually no army on the continent. This should be solved somehow.
 

Uglyr

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"Tsar" was used to describe Byzantine Emperores by slavic people. Peter just "renamed" it to feel more European.
Yea - by slavic people. Village elder can also proclaim himself Tsar and be treated like Emperor inside the village. But for the rest of the world his rank won't be that high. By the time of forming Russia it was not very large and with single dominant culture. I just don't see how it could be treated as Empire by other countries.
The term is derived from the Latin word Caesar, which was intended to mean "Emperor" in the European medieval sense of the term—a ruler with the same rank as a Roman emperor, holding it by the approval of another emperor or a supreme ecclesiastical official (the Pope or the Ecumenical Patriarch)—but was usually considered by western Europeans to be equivalent to king, or to be somewhat in between a royal and imperial rank.
So maybe Peter "renamed" it not to just "feel more European", but to declare that the country now is not mere Kingdom, but became a full-scale Empire and should be treated as such?
 

otaats

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Yea - by slavic people. Village elder can also proclaim himself Tsar and be treated like Emperor inside the village. But for the rest of the world his rank won't be that high. By the time of forming Russia it was not very large and with single dominant culture. I just don't see how it could be treated as Empire by other countries.

So maybe Peter "renamed" it not to just "feel more European", but to declare that the country now is not mere Kingdom, but became a full-scale Empire and should be treated as such?

definition of empire: an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state. Ivan the terrible proclaimed himself the Tsar of the Russians, united states of Novgorod, Muscovy, Pskov, Ryazan, Perm, and the other duchies etc. Bulgarian Empire consisted of parts of Bulgaria, Wallachia, Greece, and Serbia. Serbian Empire was consisted of parts of Bosnia, Greece, Albania, and Bulgaria.

Though the Empire was only officially proclaimed by Tsar Peter I, following the Treaty of Nystad (1721), some historians would argue that it was truly born either when Ivan III of Russia conquered Veliky Novgorod or when Ivan the Terrible conquered Khanate of Kazan. According to another point of view, the term Tsardom, which was used after the coronation of Ivan IV in 1547, was already a contemporary Russian word for empire, while Peter the Great just replaced it with a Latinized synonym. Perhaps the latter was done to make Europe recognize Russia as more of a European country.

And truly, all up until the time of Peter the Great, as much as Russia was an empire or as powerful, it was always viewed as a 'medieval' country in central and western Europe. He went at great lengths to reform and modernize not just the Russian state, but also it's people. There is a beautiful documentary (BBC i think, narrated by a woman, but i don't know the name) about Peter the Great replaying on all those History channels on the TV, you couldn't have missed it.
 

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Yea - by slavic people. Village elder can also proclaim himself Tsar and be treated like Emperor inside the village. But for the rest of the world his rank won't be that high. By the time of forming Russia it was not very large and with single dominant culture. I just don't see how it could be treated as Empire by other countries.

It had ~7 million population (obviously nothing comapred to France, but, at the same time, this is whole population of North Germany at that moment).
Part of it were tatars and other, smaller, tribes.
And, well, you can say that there were divisions in "Russian" culture which were based around different cities/duchies and, well, this was problematic to be accepted as Veliky Knyaz by Moscow nobility if you were from Uglich (as example). True unification came much later.

The_Growth_of_Russia_in_Europe_1300-1796.jpg


P.S.: as source for cities map is bad, but to show different tribes and borders - ok.
 

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For what it's worth, he didn't adopt the title of Imperator until after the treaty of Nystad, which saw the annexation of Ingria, much of Karelia, Estonia and Livonia. After nearly 21 years of war, he expanded his empire into the lucrative German Baltic and regained access to yearlong maritime trade with the West, humiliated one of the most powerful armies on the continent, and saw the Saxon dukes reinstalled to the Polish throne. He also became "father of the fatherland" (отец отечества) at the same time, though that title died with him in 1725.
 

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definition of empire: an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state. Ivan the terrible proclaimed himself the Tsar of the Russians, united states of Novgorod, Muscovy, Pskov, Ryazan, Perm, and the other duchies etc.
Uniting Russian duchies is achivement for a King not Emperor. Proclaiming himself doesn't mean others agree (or care).

Bulgarian Empire consisted of parts of Bulgaria, Wallachia, Greece, and Serbia.
wiki said:
However, the military and ideological initiative was held by Simeon I, who was seeking casus belli to fulfil his ambition to be recognized as Emperor (in Bulgarian, Tsar) and to conquer Constantinople, creating a joint Bulgarian–Roman state. ... Simeon's successor Peter I (r. 927–969) negotiated a favourable peace treaty. The Byzantines agreed to recognize him as Emperor of Bulgaria and the Bulgarian Orthodox Church as an independent Patriarchate, as well as to pay an annual tribute.
Bulgaria fought hard to be recoginzed as Empire - not self proclaimed.

Serbian Empire was consisted of parts of Bosnia, Greece, Albania, and Bulgaria.
wiki said:
On 16 April 1346, in Skopje, he had himself crowned "Emperor of the Serbs and Greeks", a title signifying a claim to succession of the Byzantine Empire.
He vasslaized Bulgarian Empire and ruled over many different cultures.

some historians would argue that it was truly born either when
Conquering Kazan for me is more or less can be considered as forming the Empire, but let's not forget that Tsardom was declared in 1547 and Kazan was conquered in 1552. So at the moment of declaration the title didn't had this achievement yet.
 

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@Johan Will Karelia get a unique set of national ideas in the update?
 

BOSSOVSKY

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otaats

Uglyr


I think that in the case of Bulgaria, Serbia and other Balkan countries (Slavic) should be a new system of power similar to what is to be in Russia.
Tsardom: Bulgaria and Serbia, Kingdom: Croatia and Bosnia, Mercantile Republic: Raguza.
It would also be useful to add new provinces in this region and to create a new state - Carniola.
 

Mentat Magus

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I am interested in seeing where we go with these content packs, seeing what others are coming down in the future.
 

otaats

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otaats

Uglyr


I think that in the case of Bulgaria, Serbia and other Balkan countries (Slavic) should be a new system of power similar to what is to be in Russia.
Tsardom: Bulgaria and Serbia, Kingdom: Croatia and Bosnia, Mercantile Republic: Raguza.
It would also be useful to add new provinces in this region and to create a new state - Carniola.

Bulgaria and Serbia should be able to form Tsardoms if they unite south slavic/greek/albanian cultures. They should in no way start as empires, if that's what you're referring to (i could be wrong about the assessment though).
 

BOSSOVSKY

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otaats

Bulgaria and Serbia should be able to form Tsardoms if they unite south slavic/greek/albanian cultures. They should in no way start as empires, if that's what you're referring to (i could be wrong about the assessment though).

The point is that all Balkan countries start as kingdoms, except for Raguza - the merchant republic.
 

Grim Deadman

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Muscovy/Russia's really been going at it lately. My latest playthrough looks like this (and most of my recent ones have Tunis/Andalusia conquering North Africa and Iberia, Austria annexed, PLC smashed to pieces..)

Well, my playthroughs (plural employed intentionally) usually look very different: huge PLC, huge Muscovy, often not forming Russia due to losing a city live Tver or Smolensk to the PLC, but at the same time holding everything from the Don to the Oxus river by 1600. All I'm saying is with all the announced buffs we'll be seeing Muscovy in India as a rule, not as an exception.
 

Atlantians

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no, why would they do that?

exactly the same as regulars.

@Johan, I have to seriously question the design decisions here.

What is the point of the manpower pool if you keep introducing these peculiar and gamey units like this?

These units simply expand micromanagement.

We needed more interactive manpower mechanics, with effects on Mercenaries and the like, not less interconnection and more magic ghost armies.
 

Soranya

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Hmm, so when cossacks work like regulars in all ways, does this mean the costs scale with province count (1k MP + 20g*inflation*corruption like regular cav)?
Do they take time to be recruited?
 

wizand

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And that's the problem, because cossacks were important part of polish cavalry, but not finest. With this change they'll be much stronger than winged hussars.

They were strongest part of infantry together with professional mercenaries, rest of infantry was poor "pospolite ruszenie", and this is problem because poland gets +10% infantry combat ability from "piechota wybraniecka" called failed reform?

Nice idea, 2 elite forces of the same type is too much for one country...
By the way, they were valued(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towarzysz_pancerny) as a biggest part of polish cavalry and second-most-important, but not finest.
Pancerni or Petychorcy were sometimes called Cossacks Squadron but they have nothing in common with Ukrainian Cossacks!They were also considered as elite force,havy cavalry,only nominally step after Hussaria.Ranks of this cavalry was filled with middle nobles who couldn't afford hussars equipment. Polish Pospolite ruszenie were a gathering of a nobles so definitely not infantry!They were used as infantry in extraordinary circumstances (capture of Warsaw during Deluge) but otherwise fight from horses.
In other hand Sicz Zaporoska or Cossacks estate in EU4 terms ware used as source of cheap and easily gathered mostly infantry forces.So especially for PLC cavalry combat ability from this estate has no much sense...Maybe manpower?Or something like strelcy but without combat bonuses?
 

TheDungen

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So Russian republics get their own merchant republic type but the hansa (lübeck) still share with venice and genoa? Despite having almost nothing in common with one another.
 

Golladan

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So Russian republics get their own merchant republic type but the hansa (lübeck) still share with venice and genoa? Despite having almost nothing in common with one another.
Russian republics have to get their own government type, otherwise you end up with them not having any of the Russian mechanics.

You think the other Merchant republics should have their own unique governments? Then go to the Suggestion forums and suggest what should be different about them.