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Welcome back to our weekly series of development diaries about Europa Universalis. This time we’ll talk about two features that will be part of the next expansion.

Theocracies
This is based on something we read in the suggestions forum. Monarchies and Republics have had their Legitimacy and Republican Tradition, but Theocracies haven’t had a unique mechanic yet. The next expansion will add a concept we call Devotion. Devotion ranges for 0 to 100, and impacts several thing.

Devotion impacts your religious abilities, your prestige gain and your tax-income.

You primarily gain devotion from high religious unity and the devoutness idea. Low stability will decrease it, while being Defender of the Faith will increase it.

There are also a lot of events that impact your devotion.

Another unique mechanic for theocracies is the fact that they always have an heir, and they have somewhat of control of it.

If you do not have an heir, you get a chance to select one heir. Heirs are age 40+ with random stats. You can then pick one of the following.

  • A Local Noble – Loses 5 devotion, but gains +10 Prestige
  • A Foreign Noble - Gains +100 relation with a random nation.
  • A Merchant's Son - +25% yearly income, lost 10 devotion
  • A Papal Protege – Catholic only. Gains +10 Papal Influence
  • A Talented Theologian: +10 Devotion
  • A local preacher – +5 Devotion & -10 Prestige


Government Ranks
A new feature in the next expansion is the introduction of proper Government Ranks. In previous versions, most countries would either be simply a Kingdom or a Republic, with a few special cases like Byzantium's Imperial Government and vassalized Kings becoming Dukes. If you don't get the expansion, this changes little, but for those with it most government types will come in three ranks: Duchy, Kingdom and Empire. While these are the names of the ranks, it doesn't mean there aren't any ranks for Republics - Venice's Serene Republic is on the same level as a Kingdom, for example.

Countries will start with whatever is closest to the rank they had historically, so the King of Burgundy becomes the Duke of Burgundy, while Byzantium is very much an Empire despite no longer having a special government form. Vassals, Marches and non-Elector members of the HRE are always Duchy rank, and certain government types only come in a single rank (such as Ming's Celestial Empire, which is always an Empire). Countries that are not locked to a particular rank can raise their rank through the Government screen by fulfilling certain requirements such as a certain level of prestige and total development level of your nation.

So what benefit do you get from a higher government rank, besides a new title and fancier headgear? Well, for one, higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires. The bonuses granted from each government are now also set per rank, with government types getting more autonomy reduction from the higher ranks, while others such as Steppe Hordes have their base government bonuses to force limits, manpower and looting speed increased by higher government ranks.

Finally, this system also comes with a complete and mod-friendly overhaul of how government names and titles are handled. Under the old system, if you wanted to for example call your Greek Emperor a Basileus, you would have to create a particular localisation string that might get overwritten by other localisation strings, and there was no ability to differentiate between the titles of say, a Greek Western Technology Group Emperor and a Greek Eastern Technology Group Emperor. Under the new system, you script specific government name/title entries that might look something like this:


Code:
byzantine_monarchy = {
rank_1 = PRINCIPALITY
rank_2 = KINGDOM
rank_3 = EMPIRE


ruler_1 = AUTOKRATOR
ruler_1_female = AUTOKRATEIRA
ruler_2 = DESPOT
ruler_2_female = DESPOTISSA
ruler_3 = BASILEUS
ruler_3_female = BASILISSA

trigger = {
   government = monarchy
   tag = BYZ
}
}


The game goes through the government entries, picks the first one it finds where the trigger evaluates true, and applies those government titles to that nation. This means that if you so desire, you could create a complete unique set of government names for each and every country in the game!


AQP3Ng9.jpg
 

Wagonlitz

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You clearly just know nothing about roman imperial ideology. Empire is no just some fancy title that anyone can claim if he is big enough. There is deep meaning behind this. Roman empire is universal - Emperor is the ruler of the whole world. Anyone who would claim emperor's title other that Roman Emperor would be usurper. There are two powers in this world - pope in spiritual sphere (for catholics) and Roman Emperor in political. Good christian can't acknowledge any other imperial title as long as there is rightfull Roman Emperor. So it should be exacly how it happened in history - Napoleon claimed imperial title becouse of revolutionary and nationalistic ideology. Austria and Prussia/Germany claimed imperial titles after Holy Roman Empire was destroyed. Russia claimed imperial title as a succesor of Western Roman Empire (Byzantine) that was always acknowledged as only rightfull Roman Empire by ortodox christians.
So true. Though a little nitpick: The byzzies were the Eastern Roman Empire and not the Western Roman Empire.
8YahOJf.gif


Yes, I know this argument and have heard a few dozen times on these forums, I just don't care. And of course these restrictions would just mean that only Muslims, Pagans and other non-Christian religions would have full access to the new content.
And what is wrong with that? Why should ROTW be punished for Europe having strict defnitions of what an empire is and what an emperor rules over? They weren't even called empires in ROTW; that is just something we call them as they approximately equal our empires in size and power.
Seriously, who here wants to have the empire -tier locked away for Catholics (and as was said, possible other denominations as well) unless you manage to destroy the HRE?
It is completely unrealistic and there would have been no chance of an empire being proclaimed in say 1678 while the HRE still existed. Why do you think that the HRE emperor still was regarded as the first among the rulers of Europe in the late 18th century even though he didn't really have any power over his empire?
 
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Will Memel finally get its 3rd dimension?
Supposedly, its actually a tesseract (4-dimensional cube). The only reason we cannot see it as such is that pesky reality we live in.
 
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Duke of Britain

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That doesn't make it more acceptable.
Stealing ideas from mods and charging for them is cheap.

Pardon, stealing ideas? That's the most ridiculous thing I have read today!

The "titles" aren't copyrighted by the mods, it is historical data, even if the ones EUIV is getting are extremely oversimplified and I prefer the more accurate ones in the mods. Unless you believe that our history was created and copyrighted by some modders, what Paradox is adding is far from "unacceptable".
 
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saegoto

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POINT:
Rank depends on prestige and development. So if your strong and big u get bonus to local authonomy. So your conquered provinces are richer and u dont care about some events that increace authonomy. In result if you are big u get authomatic tools to decrease decentralization of your big empire. I don't think that linking local authonomy to rank level is a good idea. It is not plausible, doesn't fit.

Also this is a bit unhistorical. For example if I'm France, conquered Italy and have enough developemt to announce France Empire in 16th century? The Christian world with regard rank, titles was very precise. Only Pope and Emperor could crown a duke to a king.

SUGGESTION:
1.
Don't link gaining higher rank with development level only. It should depend on relation with the Emperor or the Pope.
There should be only ONE emperor in one religious group. Except christians, they should have two - one for catholics, protestants, reformed and one for orthodoxes.
About 1750 when elightenment and revolutionary ideas arise, limit of one emperor should disapear.
2.
Don't link rank with local authonomy reduction. It snowballs big countries. Being higher rank is matter of diplomacy and prestige, not centralization. Beside shorter National Focus, higher rank could provide:
base prestige decay 7% for duchy, 6% for kingdom, 5% for empire
base relation improving: 75% for duchy, 100% for kingdom, 125% for empire
diplomatic reputation efficiency: 75% for duchy, 100% for kingdom, 125% for empire
loan size: 100% for duchy, 125% for kingdom, 150% for empire
 
Last edited:
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blackchoas

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What is with the de jure Kingdoms of Italy and Germany if they are formed by a HRE member?
Maybe this gives people reason to leave the HRE again if you want high bonuses, I always felt it was kinda silly that there is no down side to being in the HRE until internal peace is declared and the AI rarely gets that far
 
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My biggest worry is that it's all for nothing.

Of the 3 biggest theocracies (Pope, LO, TO) the Pope will still be the Pope, and LO/TO reform in to a different nation with a monarchy.

That's possible, but isn't it just like putting playable jews into CK2, it's about expanding the options open to the player, rather than necessarily offering the optimal playing experience. You may want to stick as a theocracy for purely fun reasons.
 
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My guess for the Talented Theologian vs Local Preacher:

In order for Talented Theologian to be an option, you must have a Theologian available in your advisor pool. If you select that option, the Theologian is then removed from your advisor pool (to become your heir).

Alternatively: it simply has a random chance of showing up at all.

Nothing suggests all options are always available! After all, Foreign Noble can't be an option if you have no neighbor kingdoms of the same religion.
 
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I think you should introduce some restrictions:

No country in HRE should be able to reach kingdom rank with exception of united Germany and Italy (there should be event that HRE emperor agreed and grants us those titles). Historically Brandenburg turned into Prussia just becouse they couldn't claim to be kings of Brandenburg becouse Brandenburg was in HRE.
System what you are proposing that electors can be kings doesn't make sense. Also once achived you shouldn't lose your title (for example when kingdom of Burgundy turns into kingdom of Netherlands and joins HRE).

Catholic or maybe even protestant/reformed nations shouldn't be able to claim title of the emperor as long as Holy Roman Empire exists. Revolutionary state should be exception from this rule and be able to became revolutionary empire.

Ortodox nations shouldn't be able to claim title of the emperor as long as Bizantine Empire exists. Ethiopia could be exception.

Some events for catholic nations about emperor's and pope's approval for king title would be nice. Historically duke of Burgundy was close to convincing Holy Roman Emperor to give him king's crown.

Ugh, not these restrictions again, I've grown extremely annoyed with the in the CK2 forums already. The only reasonable "hard" restriction would be that you can't be an empire within the HRE since you're nominally a vassal. But otherwise constructing extremely rigid parameters for when you can or cannot do stuff simply on the basis that that's how it happened in our history is quite boring. And you're just running into lots of necessary exemptions anyway.
 
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Rest of the world should also have special restrictions, just forgot about them. There should be only one sunni Caliph and one Shiite Caliph obviously. For Asian region there should be two empires - Japanese (as an exception) and Chinese. China had similar imperial ideology to Roman - they considered themselves as rulers of the whole known world. So as long as imperial China exists no nation in Asia region should be able to easily claim imperial title. It could be possible but with severe relations penalties and casus belli for chinese emperor to force that country to abandon their imperial ambition. Historically for example Korea became Empire of Korea becouse Japanese wanted them to fully cut their connections to Chinese Empire whose power at that time was long gone.

I play paradox games becouse I want games that are more historically accurate. If you want to freely build some weird empires of anything go and play Civilization V or other crap.

Ok, if China thinks they're the only guy around who's allowed into the empire-club, why should anyone else in Asia (a pretty big continent) care? Why should a new, rising empire in the Philippine & Indonesian islands care what some guys up north think when they're proclaiming how damn cool they are?
 
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@Johan
Do we get one (or more) new unit pack with this DLC?
I would really like to see some speciall units for the knight orders (teutonic order, etc) in this game; especially incase of the increased attention of the theocrasies in this game.

To my mind it would be really awesome to see teutonic knights, like this one, moving on the EU4 ingame map.

p-6844.jpg
 
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GeneralJhon

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Well, probably we will get some knight and theocracy unit pack. The only feature i would love to get is a leader picture AkA CKII. Would be awesome to see who is the leader of your country.

PS: I truly would love this expansion to come out in some months, iam in a middle of a campagin. Right now iam at 1600s
 
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mike.kraft

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So what benefit do you get from a higher government rank, besides a new title and fancier headgear? Well, for one, higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires. The bonuses granted from each government are now also set per rank, with government types getting more autonomy reduction from the higher ranks, while others such as Steppe Hordes have their base government bonuses to force limits, manpower and looting speed increased by higher government ranks.

@Johan - can you be more specific about the requirements for ranks? Will any of them have to do with number of provinces owned or an absolute number of developments across a country as opposed to a percentage (e.g. highly-developed one province empire of Ulm)?

If so, two separate arguments/questions about this:

1. From a historical perspective, weren't larger empires more difficult to manage? Therefore instead of National Focus cooldown decreasing as the country size grows, shouldn't it increase to reflect the inertia of a larger bureaucracy and speed of execution? Similarly, why should larger, sprawling empires have higher autonomy reduction than a tightly-knit duchy?
2. From a gameplay perspective, why make strong nations even stronger?

If not, then please ignore.
 
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Daddl

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Players like to see development. I loved the increasing number of citizens in EU3, well, until I found out its capped at 999.999. That made me sad, because it simply feels good to see growing numbers. (Yeah, maybe no AE or WE or OE...)
But we will get development, and thats a good thing. If you finally can make Siberia (or even Stockholm... :) ) into the most prosperous place on earth, I will definetely do that. And if I see no number of people but a number of basetax, thats fine, as long as its not arbitrary capped.
But I agree that I would really like a "flowing" religion and culture representation more than the current one. Its not like you need a missionary or some bird mana and a few monts later a whole province with thousands of people all completely changed their mind. Percentages of people following a certain religion or culture would allow for a far better simulation and could be greatly used for lots of additional stuff.
 
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Incompetent

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Trivially false. I mean, even Dwarf Fortress - which is far more vigorously simulationist (it has thermal transfer, gas diffusion, and liquid flow mechanics) than anything Paradox Design Studio have ever written - is full of abstractions.

Well, it has to be full of abstractions because we can't simulate the real world perfectly, so you can still cite technical obstacles rather than a design choice. I get the impression that the Dwarf Fortress people would simulate just about anything if they had the resources to do (resources here being end-user processing power, but also developer knowledge and time - I'm guessing the average game dev doesn't have a PhD in geology or what have you).

Still, even if you can do it, it doesn't mean you should. Past a certain point, realism is either irrelevant to the game (imagine a fully-fledged meteorological simulation in DF, for instance) or it can even be detrimental (because the game gets so complicated that players can't get anywhere). A big aspect of the appeal of games like EU4 is the power fantasy - you can change history! - but if it was totally realistic, you'd have to deal with myriad complex political forces in your country that you have little hope of understanding, not least because your information-gathering would be extremely limited, unreliable and costly (a realistic reflection of how much an early modern ruler could reasonably find out about his realm).

A flight simulator can be realistic (as far as the technology allows), because it replicates something you could actually master in real life. A (geo-)political simulator can't, because if it were, the player (much like most real politicians) would be frustrated by the sheer difficulty of making any lasting improvements to the country they are running.
 
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Krajzen

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This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.

...but historical era represented in eu4 is exactly about empires slowly replacing many small states. Consolidation of nation-states. Colonial empires.

At 1444 there were countless political entities across Eurasia. By 1821?
- Russian Empire (official title)
- Qing Celestial Empire
- Japanese Empire (emperor)
- British Empire
- French Empire under Napoleon which fell by 1815 but soon was replace by French COLONIAL Empire
- Spanish Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Portuguese Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Austria as Holy Roman Emperor
- Ottoman Empire
- Durrani Empire
- not sure about Persia
- Ethiopian Empire (kebra negast)
- Mexican Empire
- just falling: Maratha Empire
- at one point Dai Viet had emperors

In 1444 Europe was divided on hundreds of duchies, kingdoms and small republics. By 1821 there was GB, France, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Denmark-Sweden-Norway, Russia, Prussia, Ottomans, Netherlands, few Italian states, Dwitzerland and HRE. 2/3 of Asia is under Qing and Russia.

Eu4 is all about raising to imperial status.
 
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