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Welcome back to our weekly series of development diaries about Europa Universalis. This time we’ll talk about two features that will be part of the next expansion.

Theocracies
This is based on something we read in the suggestions forum. Monarchies and Republics have had their Legitimacy and Republican Tradition, but Theocracies haven’t had a unique mechanic yet. The next expansion will add a concept we call Devotion. Devotion ranges for 0 to 100, and impacts several thing.

Devotion impacts your religious abilities, your prestige gain and your tax-income.

You primarily gain devotion from high religious unity and the devoutness idea. Low stability will decrease it, while being Defender of the Faith will increase it.

There are also a lot of events that impact your devotion.

Another unique mechanic for theocracies is the fact that they always have an heir, and they have somewhat of control of it.

If you do not have an heir, you get a chance to select one heir. Heirs are age 40+ with random stats. You can then pick one of the following.

  • A Local Noble – Loses 5 devotion, but gains +10 Prestige
  • A Foreign Noble - Gains +100 relation with a random nation.
  • A Merchant's Son - +25% yearly income, lost 10 devotion
  • A Papal Protege – Catholic only. Gains +10 Papal Influence
  • A Talented Theologian: +10 Devotion
  • A local preacher – +5 Devotion & -10 Prestige


Government Ranks
A new feature in the next expansion is the introduction of proper Government Ranks. In previous versions, most countries would either be simply a Kingdom or a Republic, with a few special cases like Byzantium's Imperial Government and vassalized Kings becoming Dukes. If you don't get the expansion, this changes little, but for those with it most government types will come in three ranks: Duchy, Kingdom and Empire. While these are the names of the ranks, it doesn't mean there aren't any ranks for Republics - Venice's Serene Republic is on the same level as a Kingdom, for example.

Countries will start with whatever is closest to the rank they had historically, so the King of Burgundy becomes the Duke of Burgundy, while Byzantium is very much an Empire despite no longer having a special government form. Vassals, Marches and non-Elector members of the HRE are always Duchy rank, and certain government types only come in a single rank (such as Ming's Celestial Empire, which is always an Empire). Countries that are not locked to a particular rank can raise their rank through the Government screen by fulfilling certain requirements such as a certain level of prestige and total development level of your nation.

So what benefit do you get from a higher government rank, besides a new title and fancier headgear? Well, for one, higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires. The bonuses granted from each government are now also set per rank, with government types getting more autonomy reduction from the higher ranks, while others such as Steppe Hordes have their base government bonuses to force limits, manpower and looting speed increased by higher government ranks.

Finally, this system also comes with a complete and mod-friendly overhaul of how government names and titles are handled. Under the old system, if you wanted to for example call your Greek Emperor a Basileus, you would have to create a particular localisation string that might get overwritten by other localisation strings, and there was no ability to differentiate between the titles of say, a Greek Western Technology Group Emperor and a Greek Eastern Technology Group Emperor. Under the new system, you script specific government name/title entries that might look something like this:


Code:
byzantine_monarchy = {
rank_1 = PRINCIPALITY
rank_2 = KINGDOM
rank_3 = EMPIRE


ruler_1 = AUTOKRATOR
ruler_1_female = AUTOKRATEIRA
ruler_2 = DESPOT
ruler_2_female = DESPOTISSA
ruler_3 = BASILEUS
ruler_3_female = BASILISSA

trigger = {
   government = monarchy
   tag = BYZ
}
}


The game goes through the government entries, picks the first one it finds where the trigger evaluates true, and applies those government titles to that nation. This means that if you so desire, you could create a complete unique set of government names for each and every country in the game!


AQP3Ng9.jpg
 

Dorevai

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Why would you ever pick the local preacher over the talented theologian? What are the effects of devotion? Just seems like a completely bad choice. I don't understand the trade-off.

"Devotion impacts your religious abilities, your prestige gain and your tax-income."

Right, but what impact is that? Why would I want to sacrifice 10 prestige to only gain 5 devotion rather than gaining 10 without a prestige loss?

:) turnad

Seems like the theologian should be nerfed somehow. -% tax?
 
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All abstraction features in the game are relicts of old days where the computers weren't able to handle it otherwise.
Trivially false. I mean, even Dwarf Fortress - which is far more vigorously simulationist (it has thermal transfer, gas diffusion, and liquid flow mechanics) than anything Paradox Design Studio have ever written - is full of abstractions.
 
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I agree the response you got could have been a little deeper, but the impact of government rank on the government type bonuses could be seen as modelling the impact of a the strength of the nation as an institution - institutional depth, so to speak. So the Byzantine Empire, by dint of it's age and entrenched institutions gets bonuses that most small countries wouldn't. It could be a sort-of parallel to legitimacy as well, whereby a nation that is more developed is seen by its subjects as a bit more legitimate, and thus the impact of its government type is greater. Of course, I've got no idea what the devs are trying to model with it, could be something else entirely :). I'm also interested in their answer, if we get one :).

It's a nice try at explaining it, but I don't think it stands up. The Byzantine Empire had some pretty entrenched institutions, but let's be honest: they were fairly awful. The lack of legalistic succession meant that civil war was frequent and ruinous. The fact it was called an 'Empire' didn't mean it was run well. Secondly, even if that weren't the case, the causation you have is backwards: the institution precedes the rank. Under this model, you should become an Empire if your autonomy is low, rather than get lower autonomy because you are an Empire. :)
 
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Anyone else think these DD's should get their own spot on those banner alerts at the top of the screen? Like the HoI DD, and patches do?
 
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Johan

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So, are the Devotion and Government types available for everyone or only for those who buy the expansion? I assume it's expansion-exclusive, but doesn't hurt to ask.

Exclusive.
 
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It should be now if it isn't. But sadly paradox only made 3 ranks. Quote paradox :"proper" governmental ranks.

The difference between county and duchy is not relevant enough on EUs level of simulation, but you could set it up to display them as counties.
 
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Ugh, not these restrictions again, I've grown extremely annoyed with the in the CK2 forums already. The only reasonable "hard" restriction would be that you can't be an empire within the HRE since you're nominally a vassal. But otherwise constructing extremely rigid parameters for when you can or cannot do stuff simply on the basis that that's how it happened in our history is quite boring. And you're just running into lots of necessary exemptions anyway.

You clearly just know nothing about roman imperial ideology. Empire is no just some fancy title that anyone can claim if he is big enough. There is deep meaning behind this. Roman empire is universal - Emperor is the ruler of the whole world. Anyone who would claim emperor's title other that Roman Emperor would be usurper. There are two powers in this world - pope in spiritual sphere (for catholics) and Roman Emperor in political. Good christian can't acknowledge any other imperial title as long as there is rightfull Roman Emperor. So it should be exacly how it happened in history - Napoleon claimed imperial title becouse of revolutionary and nationalistic ideology. Austria and Prussia/Germany claimed imperial titles after Holy Roman Empire was destroyed. Russia claimed imperial title as a succesor of Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) that was always acknowledged as only rightfull Roman Empire by ortodox christians.
 
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Rest of the world should also have special restrictions, just forgot about them. There should be only one sunni Caliph and one Shiite Caliph obviously. For Asian region there should be two empires - Japanese (as an exception) and Chinese. China had similar imperial ideology to Roman - they considered themselves as rulers of the whole known world. So as long as imperial China exists no nation in Asia region should be able to easily claim imperial title. It could be possible but with severe relations penalties and casus belli for chinese emperor to force that country to abandon their imperial ambition. Historically for example Korea became Empire of Korea becouse Japanese wanted them to fully cut their connections to Chinese Empire whose power at that time was long gone.

I play paradox games becouse I want games that are more historically accurate. If you want to freely build some weird empires of anything go and play Civilization V or other crap.

This seems like a pretty poorly thought out argument. Certainly there should be great difficulty in proclaiming an empire (and from the DD it seems like that is the case) but saying it couldn't have happened because it didn't happen is just railroading. You could use the same logic in CK2 for saying the Holy Roman Empire shouldn't be formed - until someone had sufficient power to do it no one thought you could do it. Napoleon declaring an Empire and then destroying the Holy Roman Empire were both unthinkable. For that matter so was Augustus' forming of the Empire, the Bulgarian Empire and really most of history. I think there should be a political cost to things like that but railroading ≠ realism. It could have happened so it is reasonable that PD make it a possibility.
 
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Sounds good, theocracies needed some extra flavour.

As for the government ranks I hope that inside HRE the king rank is called elector if you are one, with the exception of Bohemia of course.
 
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gall

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It's an abstraction. A higher government rank is purely beneficial for the same reason national ideas purely beneficial - upgrading your government should feel like you've progressed, not "I gain this but I lost this, was it worth it?" so we bundle better administration into the title itself.
So you intentionally support snowballing, because of "fun factor"? AFAIK most of your customers will support this idea ("game must be more fun!" kind of topic spawn pretty frequently), but personally i would like to see some challenge in mid/latter game. There is to much pro snowball mechanic today IHMO. Well, i guess i will just use some MODs.
Effects of ranks are moddable as gov forms, right?
An abstraction is a simplification of a more complex entity. You still need to justify abstractions, otherwise they're not abstractions, they're just arbitrary. I understand that you want to make the player feel like they progressed by gaining a rank, but there are a great many number of boni that you could award them for gaining a title. Some of those boni make more sense than others. For example: increased diplomatic reputation, because other countries will want more royal marriages with a more prestigious title, decreased prestige decay, because even if the Byzantine Empire (for example) loses a lot of wars and territory it still has the historic value of being the Byzantine Empire, or reduced diplomatic annexation cost, because puppet state leaders are more easily indoctrinated into the rank and titulature of an Empire. These are all abstractions. Increased autonomy is not an abstraction, it's just an arbitrary bonus.
Medium size powers Milan had way better administration than minors. For 100k people in one town, you didn't need sophisticated system and you probably never conquer anything so there was no need for institutions, which would make seeding your administration on newly acquired territories easier. If you are petty OPM, your risk of total defeat is non neglectable in almost any case. Power of the ruler was smaller, as it is far more probable that half of one city will revolt than half of population living on vast territory will revolt on the same time..
 
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With regards to moddability of the ranks and names, would something like that work?
Code:
hre_monarchy_1 = {
rank_1 = COUNTY
rank_2 = LANDGRAVIATE
rank_3 = DUCHY
rank_4 = KINGDOM

ruler_1 = COUNT
ruler_1_female = COUNTESS
ruler_2 = LANDGRAVE
ruler_2_female = LANDGRAVINE
ruler_3 = DUKE
ruler_3 = DUCHESS
ruler_4 = KING
ruler_4_female = QUEEN

trigger = {
    is_part_of_hre = yes
    is_elector = no
    NOT = {
        any_neighbor_country = {
            is_part_of_hre = no
        }
    }
}
}

hre_monarchy_2 = {
rank_1 = COUNTY
rank_2 = MARGRAVIATE
rank_3 = DUCHY
rank_4 = KINGDOM

ruler_1 = COUNT
ruler_1_female = COUNTESS
ruler_2 = MARGRAVE
ruler_2_female = MARGRAVINE
ruler_3 = DUKE
ruler_3 = DUCHESS
ruler_4 = KING
ruler_4_female = QUEEN

trigger = {
    is_part_of_hre = yes
    is_elector = no
    any_neighbor_country = {
        is_part_of_hre = no
    }
}
}

hre_monarchy_3 = {
rank_1 = COUNTY
rank_2 = LANDGRAVIATE
rank_3 = DUCHY
rank_4 = KINGDOM

ruler_1 = PRINCE_ELECTOR
ruler_1_female = PRINCE_ELECTRESS
ruler_2 = PRINCE_ELECTOR
ruler_2_female = PRINCE_ELECTRESS
ruler_3 = PRINCE_ELECTOR
ruler_3 = PRINCE_ELECTRESS
ruler_4 = PRINCE_ELECTOR
ruler_4_female = PRINCE_ELECTRESS

trigger = {
    is_part_of_hre = yes
    is_elector = yes
}
}
 
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Daddl

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Can we get ingame messages with the correct title? And additional prestige titles like "the Great"?

I see Russia switching to Catholicism and getting some PUs.
Alexander the Great, Zar of Russia, Defender of the Faith, King of the Commonwealth, Protector of the Holy Roman Empire, King of the Andals and the first Men... well, you know.
 
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coldsteel

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"higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires."

Whereas I like the idea of being able to increase government rank, I'm worried by this suggestion. I would think that in general a large Empire would have a much more difficult time changing their focus than a small Duchy.
 
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grommile

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If Religious Orders are good enough, it might make sense to not form Prussia as the TO, which is great because forming Prussia as them feels stupid.
Forming Prussia as the TO feels historical. In 1525, the Grand Master of the Order converted to Protestantism, renounced his vows, dissolved the Ordensstaat, and paid homage to his maternal uncle, the King of Poland, as Duke of Prussia.
 
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Andrzej2

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And of course these restrictions would just mean that only Muslims, Pagans and other non-Christian religions would have full access to the new content. Seriously, who here wants to have the empire -tier locked away for Catholics (and as was said, possible other denominations as well) unless you manage to destroy the HRE?

Rest of the world should also have special restrictions, just forgot about them. There should be only one sunni Caliph and one Shiite Caliph obviously. For Asian region there should be two empires - Japanese (as an exception) and Chinese. China had similar imperial ideology to Roman - they considered themselves as rulers of the whole known world. So as long as imperial China exists no nation in China, Korea or Indochina region should be able to easily claim imperial title. It could be possible but with severe relations penalties and casus belli for chinese emperor to force that country to abandon their imperial ambition. Historically for example Korea became Empire of Korea becouse Japanese wanted them to fully cut their connections to Chinese Empire whose power at that time was long gone.

I play paradox games becouse I want games that are more historically accurate. If you want to freely build some weird empires of anything go and play Civilization V or other crap.
 
Last edited:
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