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Welcome back to our weekly series of development diaries about Europa Universalis. This time we’ll talk about two features that will be part of the next expansion.

Theocracies
This is based on something we read in the suggestions forum. Monarchies and Republics have had their Legitimacy and Republican Tradition, but Theocracies haven’t had a unique mechanic yet. The next expansion will add a concept we call Devotion. Devotion ranges for 0 to 100, and impacts several thing.

Devotion impacts your religious abilities, your prestige gain and your tax-income.

You primarily gain devotion from high religious unity and the devoutness idea. Low stability will decrease it, while being Defender of the Faith will increase it.

There are also a lot of events that impact your devotion.

Another unique mechanic for theocracies is the fact that they always have an heir, and they have somewhat of control of it.

If you do not have an heir, you get a chance to select one heir. Heirs are age 40+ with random stats. You can then pick one of the following.

  • A Local Noble – Loses 5 devotion, but gains +10 Prestige
  • A Foreign Noble - Gains +100 relation with a random nation.
  • A Merchant's Son - +25% yearly income, lost 10 devotion
  • A Papal Protege – Catholic only. Gains +10 Papal Influence
  • A Talented Theologian: +10 Devotion
  • A local preacher – +5 Devotion & -10 Prestige


Government Ranks
A new feature in the next expansion is the introduction of proper Government Ranks. In previous versions, most countries would either be simply a Kingdom or a Republic, with a few special cases like Byzantium's Imperial Government and vassalized Kings becoming Dukes. If you don't get the expansion, this changes little, but for those with it most government types will come in three ranks: Duchy, Kingdom and Empire. While these are the names of the ranks, it doesn't mean there aren't any ranks for Republics - Venice's Serene Republic is on the same level as a Kingdom, for example.

Countries will start with whatever is closest to the rank they had historically, so the King of Burgundy becomes the Duke of Burgundy, while Byzantium is very much an Empire despite no longer having a special government form. Vassals, Marches and non-Elector members of the HRE are always Duchy rank, and certain government types only come in a single rank (such as Ming's Celestial Empire, which is always an Empire). Countries that are not locked to a particular rank can raise their rank through the Government screen by fulfilling certain requirements such as a certain level of prestige and total development level of your nation.

So what benefit do you get from a higher government rank, besides a new title and fancier headgear? Well, for one, higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires. The bonuses granted from each government are now also set per rank, with government types getting more autonomy reduction from the higher ranks, while others such as Steppe Hordes have their base government bonuses to force limits, manpower and looting speed increased by higher government ranks.

Finally, this system also comes with a complete and mod-friendly overhaul of how government names and titles are handled. Under the old system, if you wanted to for example call your Greek Emperor a Basileus, you would have to create a particular localisation string that might get overwritten by other localisation strings, and there was no ability to differentiate between the titles of say, a Greek Western Technology Group Emperor and a Greek Eastern Technology Group Emperor. Under the new system, you script specific government name/title entries that might look something like this:


Code:
byzantine_monarchy = {
rank_1 = PRINCIPALITY
rank_2 = KINGDOM
rank_3 = EMPIRE


ruler_1 = AUTOKRATOR
ruler_1_female = AUTOKRATEIRA
ruler_2 = DESPOT
ruler_2_female = DESPOTISSA
ruler_3 = BASILEUS
ruler_3_female = BASILISSA

trigger = {
   government = monarchy
   tag = BYZ
}
}


The game goes through the government entries, picks the first one it finds where the trigger evaluates true, and applies those government titles to that nation. This means that if you so desire, you could create a complete unique set of government names for each and every country in the game!


AQP3Ng9.jpg
 

Dewit

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@Me_

Yes, as I stated before I agree with that an empire should be a goal for the player.
I just don't like the way it is portrayed.

The concept feels arbitrary and wrong. Let me elaborate:
As someone stated before, calling yourself an king or emperor woudn't incline your citicens to suddenly be more productive or accept your authority.

No, what the act would do is (if it's legimite)
  1. improve your international prestige and opinion (aka diplomatic reputation in EU4).
  2. Once your kingdom/empire is established, the title is worth something even when it is temporary weakened (slower prestige decay in EU4). See the byzantine empire as a extreme example.
  3. Furthermore, prestige attracts people and it was a matter of prestige that they are accordingly paid. As money and prestige attract people you get additional advisers but you have to pay them more.
  4. Also, in a mighty and vast empire it should take more time to change the focus then in a small duchy.
  5. Lastly I haven't seen an empire in history that has not engulved two or more cultures. As emperors rule over many differnt people they have to come in terms with them (Thats why reduced cultural acceptence makes sense).
I hope that makes my point somewhat clearer.
Edit: typos
 
Last edited:

Krajzen

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P.s. Finland was quite a large duchy for a long time

Geographically big. It had estimated population size of like 300 - 500 000 in eu4 period. Living in villages and small cities.

By 1900 (1900! Not 1600!) seventy percent of the population was engaged in agriculture and forestry, and half of the value of production came from these primary industries.
 

johnleeyx

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First of all, what I want is choices/ alternatives.
If you want to have a 200 province duchy, why not. It might not be optimal but nobody prevents you from that.

P.s. Finland was quite a large duchy for a long time

Finland was a Grand Duchy which in term of the new mechanics will be Kingdom level
 

ed84

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The stuff on theocracies is good, and I've loved all the Dev Diaries up until now, but not liking the government ranks stuff..just doesn't make much sense.
 
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Delta21

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I didn't go through all of the comments but I have to stress that there should be a way to change government form from a theocracy, be it a monarchy or a republic. Theocracies don't "level up" as other government forms, so they should either be really competitive in the long run as well (maybe scale up with tech, but be the same government form) or become optional at some point.
 

chrnno

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EU4 could certainly be more realistic in ways that improve the game, don't get me wrong. I would like to see a more complex game in terms of internal development (e.g. Victoria 2 is much better than EU4 on this, in numerous ways). But 'realism' for its own sake shouldn't be the primary goal in game design. Above all, it has to be fun!
Indeed. The main realism divergences the game has are the capability to see in real-time everything happening nearby own's and allies' units/territories plus communication being instantaneous. There isn't really anything else that approaches how unrealistic this is so realism in a game is a pipe dream in the first place.

Saying it is more immersive, more fun, more fitting to historical period, truer to the game's intent and such are the kinds of arguments one should be using.
 

YoDaddy

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Please please please work on the Ai with building buildings, fighting wars, and everything! Ai really needs work, the basic game you all keep coming up with brilliant additions... but the AI is boring to play against, too easy to trick into fighting losing battles, and not good with being loyal and helping allies war goals and such. Make the game more fun for us single players please thank you!
 

matissvein

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Possible things that might have been silenced in the Diaries:
  • Dynamical historical events for baltic theocracies
  • Loads of new national ideas
  • More goverment types revolving around theocracies
  • More interactions with the pope
  • More religions with religious leader states
This is just my speculation, that might be added or might not. It just seems possible.
 

TheDungen

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EU4 could certainly be more realistic in ways that improve the game, don't get me wrong. I would like to see a more complex game in terms of internal development (e.g. Victoria 2 is much better than EU4 on this, in numerous ways). But 'realism' for its own sake shouldn't be the primary goal in game design. Above all, it has to be fun!
True but there are plenty of grand starategy games that fill the simpler nieches but only the Paradox games which try to simulate the reality somewhat well. Sure there are elements whifch need not be represented in EU, politics ona more advanced level and dynasties. Because those are to some extent the main foci of other of paradox's grand strategy games.
But abstractions that make things less intuitive are hard to justify.
 

TheDungen

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Historically only certain countries went protestant or joined the leagues. Only some colonized. Only some became absolute monarchies. Etc etc.

The option of turning into an empire is really no different from any of the other features that historically only applied to some but the game makes it available to almost everyone.
Were they actual parts of the Duchy of Burgundy? Or were they separate titles? If they're separate titles then representing them as PUs is not wrong.

And when Bulgaria/serbiaforms the tsardom, after the fall of the byzantine empire, instead of russia , or when sweden proclaims itself a revolutionary empire and dismantles the HRE then those will not be historical events. But the nature of the event happening will be in the same spirit as the historical events. Every country in eurpe considering themselves empire at the end of the game won't.
 

hashinshin

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And when Bulgaria/serbiaforms the tsardom, after the fall of the byzantine empire, instead of russia , or when sweden proclaims itself a revolutionary empire and dismantles the HRE then those will not be historical events. But the nature of the event happening will be in the same spirit as the historical events. Every country in eurpe considering themselves empire at the end of the game won't.
This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.
 

TheDungen

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This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.

Is that so because last I looked the only two European emperors in the game (not counting rusdia) are pretty much powerless or becomes do during the era of the game.
Also countries blobbing to cower most of europe is a problem in itself and shouldn't be reinforced by giving them more ability to blob even further.
 

Me_

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Its not aboout forming empires. its about consolidating into nation states not blobbing into empires cowering half of europe.
You seem to be playing a different game than the rest of us. Are you sure it's called Europa Universalis?
In Europe there is exactly one emperor title but many people who claims to be the rightful emperor.
Indeed, but the French Empire only came to be late in the game's timeframe, therefore a mechanics just for them wouldn't serve much purpose, so it will instead be also used for false empires like the Byzantine, Holy Roman (if united), Russian and Ottoman ones.
 

Christopholes

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I think it will be more along the lines of Emperor in all but name. Spain, Portugal, Britain, and in the CK2 time frame Cnut's domains were effectively empires, they were in some cases larger than the HRE and ruled over multiple cultures. But the leaders still referred to themselves as Kings. I will find it hilarious if Trebizond starts at Emperor tier as well. The Holy Roman Emperor may be given precedence at events and treated with respect but in practice say the Ruler of United Scandinavia or Burgandy beating down France and blobbing all over would be effectively emperors.
 
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