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Welcome back to our weekly series of development diaries about Europa Universalis. This time we’ll talk about two features that will be part of the next expansion.

Theocracies
This is based on something we read in the suggestions forum. Monarchies and Republics have had their Legitimacy and Republican Tradition, but Theocracies haven’t had a unique mechanic yet. The next expansion will add a concept we call Devotion. Devotion ranges for 0 to 100, and impacts several thing.

Devotion impacts your religious abilities, your prestige gain and your tax-income.

You primarily gain devotion from high religious unity and the devoutness idea. Low stability will decrease it, while being Defender of the Faith will increase it.

There are also a lot of events that impact your devotion.

Another unique mechanic for theocracies is the fact that they always have an heir, and they have somewhat of control of it.

If you do not have an heir, you get a chance to select one heir. Heirs are age 40+ with random stats. You can then pick one of the following.

  • A Local Noble – Loses 5 devotion, but gains +10 Prestige
  • A Foreign Noble - Gains +100 relation with a random nation.
  • A Merchant's Son - +25% yearly income, lost 10 devotion
  • A Papal Protege – Catholic only. Gains +10 Papal Influence
  • A Talented Theologian: +10 Devotion
  • A local preacher – +5 Devotion & -10 Prestige


Government Ranks
A new feature in the next expansion is the introduction of proper Government Ranks. In previous versions, most countries would either be simply a Kingdom or a Republic, with a few special cases like Byzantium's Imperial Government and vassalized Kings becoming Dukes. If you don't get the expansion, this changes little, but for those with it most government types will come in three ranks: Duchy, Kingdom and Empire. While these are the names of the ranks, it doesn't mean there aren't any ranks for Republics - Venice's Serene Republic is on the same level as a Kingdom, for example.

Countries will start with whatever is closest to the rank they had historically, so the King of Burgundy becomes the Duke of Burgundy, while Byzantium is very much an Empire despite no longer having a special government form. Vassals, Marches and non-Elector members of the HRE are always Duchy rank, and certain government types only come in a single rank (such as Ming's Celestial Empire, which is always an Empire). Countries that are not locked to a particular rank can raise their rank through the Government screen by fulfilling certain requirements such as a certain level of prestige and total development level of your nation.

So what benefit do you get from a higher government rank, besides a new title and fancier headgear? Well, for one, higher government ranks are able to change their National Focus more often, with the default 25 year cooldown being 20 years for Kingdoms, and a mere 15 years for Empires. The bonuses granted from each government are now also set per rank, with government types getting more autonomy reduction from the higher ranks, while others such as Steppe Hordes have their base government bonuses to force limits, manpower and looting speed increased by higher government ranks.

Finally, this system also comes with a complete and mod-friendly overhaul of how government names and titles are handled. Under the old system, if you wanted to for example call your Greek Emperor a Basileus, you would have to create a particular localisation string that might get overwritten by other localisation strings, and there was no ability to differentiate between the titles of say, a Greek Western Technology Group Emperor and a Greek Eastern Technology Group Emperor. Under the new system, you script specific government name/title entries that might look something like this:


Code:
byzantine_monarchy = {
rank_1 = PRINCIPALITY
rank_2 = KINGDOM
rank_3 = EMPIRE


ruler_1 = AUTOKRATOR
ruler_1_female = AUTOKRATEIRA
ruler_2 = DESPOT
ruler_2_female = DESPOTISSA
ruler_3 = BASILEUS
ruler_3_female = BASILISSA

trigger = {
   government = monarchy
   tag = BYZ
}
}


The game goes through the government entries, picks the first one it finds where the trigger evaluates true, and applies those government titles to that nation. This means that if you so desire, you could create a complete unique set of government names for each and every country in the game!


AQP3Ng9.jpg
 

Golladan

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Wouldn't everyone become empire in the end? Historically only those countries claimed to be successor of Rome became an empire except for napoloen.
Historically only certain countries went protestant or joined the leagues. Only some colonized. Only some became absolute monarchies. Etc etc.

The option of turning into an empire is really no different from any of the other features that historically only applied to some but the game makes it available to almost everyone.
Actually, the more I look into it, a Hainaut-Holland PU for Burgundy isn't as unreasonable as I first thought. Philip the Good did purchase the counties from Countess Jacqueline, and then had her unceremoniously kicked out of power and took over, but he did have a good claim on the counties through his mother, who was the daughter of Count Albert of Hainaut and Holland (making Philip the first cousin of Countess Jacqueline). He may have jumped the gun on his inheritance here, but it's not as irrational to call it a PU as I first thought. Still, however, Hainaut and Holland should be combined as one PU, and not separated into two different PUs.

I still remain unconvinced in making Luxembourg and Picardy (and Namur) PUs instead of outright conquered territory, though.
Were they actual parts of the Duchy of Burgundy? Or were they separate titles? If they're separate titles then representing them as PUs is not wrong.
 
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EU4 could certainly be more realistic in ways that improve the game, don't get me wrong. I would like to see a more complex game in terms of internal development (e.g. Victoria 2 is much better than EU4 on this, in numerous ways). But 'realism' for its own sake shouldn't be the primary goal in game design. Above all, it has to be fun!
True but there are plenty of grand starategy games that fill the simpler nieches but only the Paradox games which try to simulate the reality somewhat well. Sure there are elements whifch need not be represented in EU, politics ona more advanced level and dynasties. Because those are to some extent the main foci of other of paradox's grand strategy games.
But abstractions that make things less intuitive are hard to justify.
 

TheDungen

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Indeed. The main realism divergences the game has are the capability to see in real-time everything happening nearby own's and allies' units/territories plus communication being instantaneous. There isn't really anything else that approaches how unrealistic this is so realism in a game is a pipe dream in the first place.

Saying it is more immersive, more fun, more fitting to historical period, truer to the game's intent and such are the kinds of arguments one should be using.

You mean except for the immortal observer who makes all the decisions?
 
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Historically only certain countries went protestant or joined the leagues. Only some colonized. Only some became absolute monarchies. Etc etc.

The option of turning into an empire is really no different from any of the other features that historically only applied to some but the game makes it available to almost everyone.
Were they actual parts of the Duchy of Burgundy? Or were they separate titles? If they're separate titles then representing them as PUs is not wrong.

And when Bulgaria/serbiaforms the tsardom, after the fall of the byzantine empire, instead of russia , or when sweden proclaims itself a revolutionary empire and dismantles the HRE then those will not be historical events. But the nature of the event happening will be in the same spirit as the historical events. Every country in eurpe considering themselves empire at the end of the game won't.
 

Me_

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And when Bulgaria/serbiaforms the tsardom, after the fall of the byzantine empire, instead of russia , or when sweden proclaims itself a revolutionary empire and dismantles the HRE then those will not be historical events. But the nature of the event happening will be in the same spirit as the historical events. Every country in eurpe considering themselves empire at the end of the game won't.
Well, there was a time when Europe had 4 Christian Emperors (Russia, Austria, France/Germany and Great Britain - as Empress of India), plus Ottomans, although it was after the game's era. Within the game's timeline 3 were the top (plus Ottomans). Still, their realms combined covered most of Europe.
 
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hashinshin

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And when Bulgaria/serbiaforms the tsardom, after the fall of the byzantine empire, instead of russia , or when sweden proclaims itself a revolutionary empire and dismantles the HRE then those will not be historical events. But the nature of the event happening will be in the same spirit as the historical events. Every country in eurpe considering themselves empire at the end of the game won't.
This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.
 

Krajzen

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This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.

...but historical era represented in eu4 is exactly about empires slowly replacing many small states. Consolidation of nation-states. Colonial empires.

At 1444 there were countless political entities across Eurasia. By 1821?
- Russian Empire (official title)
- Qing Celestial Empire
- Japanese Empire (emperor)
- British Empire
- French Empire under Napoleon which fell by 1815 but soon was replace by French COLONIAL Empire
- Spanish Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Portuguese Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Austria as Holy Roman Emperor
- Ottoman Empire
- Durrani Empire
- not sure about Persia
- Ethiopian Empire (kebra negast)
- Mexican Empire
- just falling: Maratha Empire
- at one point Dai Viet had emperors

In 1444 Europe was divided on hundreds of duchies, kingdoms and small republics. By 1821 there was GB, France, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Denmark-Sweden-Norway, Russia, Prussia, Ottomans, Netherlands, few Italian states, Dwitzerland and HRE. 2/3 of Asia is under Qing and Russia.

Eu4 is all about raising to imperial status.
 
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Austria was no longer the HRE by 1821, they lost that title (quickly replaced with Empire of Austria) during the Napoleonic Wars, when the empire was dissolved. The German Confederation, did, however, form soon after the wars, in 1815 and the emperors of Austria where "presidents" of it.
 
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Let's be real people, the requirements for one to become an empire would be tailored for each of the majors, with the rest of the world having more generic requirements (possibly tempered by location on the map).
 
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TheDungen

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This seems like an issue with expansion being the only real gameplay option and countries all massively increasing in size and there being very little in the way of stopping that. If every country had 1/4 of Europe they'd all call themselves an empire.

Is that so because last I looked the only two European emperors in the game (not counting rusdia) are pretty much powerless or becomes do during the era of the game.
Also countries blobbing to cower most of europe is a problem in itself and shouldn't be reinforced by giving them more ability to blob even further.
 

TheDungen

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...but historical era represented in eu4 is exactly about empires slowly replacing many small states. Consolidation of nation-states. Colonial empires.

At 1444 there were countless political entities across Eurasia. By 1821?
- Russian Empire (official title)
- Qing Celestial Empire
- Japanese Empire (emperor)
- British Empire
- French Empire under Napoleon which fell by 1815 but soon was replace by French COLONIAL Empire
- Spanish Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Portuguese Empire falling just by last 20 years
- Austria as Holy Roman Emperor
- Ottoman Empire
- Durrani Empire
- not sure about Persia
- Ethiopian Empire (kebra negast)
- Mexican Empire
- just falling: Maratha Empire
- at one point Dai Viet had emperors

In 1444 Europe was divided on hundreds of duchies, kingdoms and small republics. By 1821 there was GB, France, Spain, Portugal, Austria, Denmark-Sweden-Norway, Russia, Prussia, Ottomans, Netherlands, few Italian states, Dwitzerland and HRE. 2/3 of Asia is under Qing and Russia.

Eu4 is all about raising to imperial status.
Its not aboout forming empires. its about consolidating into nation states not blobbing into empires cowering half of europe.. Only brittain was an empire of the colonial powers and the king/queen of brittain was emperor of India. otherwise it's just three countries claiming to be the sucessor of rome. The Russians, the holy roman empire and the ottoman. Napoleon crowned himself emperor in order to stake a claim on the same imperial title as the hre. Which is why he forced them to give it up.
after that happens pretty much everyone starts calling themselves emperor (germany France and austria) but they are really staking their claim to the same title (except the brittish). That of the western roman empire.

In Europe there is exactly one emperor title but many people who claims to be the rightful emperor.
 
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mattkunz

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I'd just like to say, making advancing in government rank strictly positive, basically a reward for an achievement, is an acceptable development decision. I'd just prefer it, if the bonuses were less immersion breaking. Declaring you country a kingdom or empire should change how your country is perceived, not the efficiency of the administration. There is already a mechanic in place for that "government form". Bonuses in diplomatic reputation and prestige, would give the same sense of accomplishment you seem to be going for, without seeming kind of off.
As to the threat of empire spam, I hope there is an interesting mechanic in place to prevent it. One way to go would be to just give each religious group (or religion) a limited number of empire titles and you have to destroy an old empire to found a new one. Another way would be to make the requirements for forming an empire rise with the number of empire titles in your religious group. If balanced right, with an HRE and a Czar in your religious group, as a christian country, you would need to conquer most of Western Europe, or build a really major colonial empire, to actually claim a new empire title. A third, or complementary way, would be to concentrate less on the minimum requirements, but to give existing empires an incentive and the means to keep the empire club small. For example the number of existing empires could lower the bonuses for having empire gov. rank (kingdom rank bonuses being the floor). Coupled with a cb empires themselves could keep the number of empires acceptable. There are a lot of ways to make this an interesting mechanic, I hope one is implemented.
 
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Its not aboout forming empires. its about consolidating into nation states not blobbing into empires cowering half of europe.
You seem to be playing a different game than the rest of us. Are you sure it's called Europa Universalis?
In Europe there is exactly one emperor title but many people who claims to be the rightful emperor.
Indeed, but the French Empire only came to be late in the game's timeframe, therefore a mechanics just for them wouldn't serve much purpose, so it will instead be also used for false empires like the Byzantine, Holy Roman (if united), Russian and Ottoman ones.
 

Christopholes

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I think it will be more along the lines of Emperor in all but name. Spain, Portugal, Britain, and in the CK2 time frame Cnut's domains were effectively empires, they were in some cases larger than the HRE and ruled over multiple cultures. But the leaders still referred to themselves as Kings. I will find it hilarious if Trebizond starts at Emperor tier as well. The Holy Roman Emperor may be given precedence at events and treated with respect but in practice say the Ruler of United Scandinavia or Burgandy beating down France and blobbing all over would be effectively emperors.
 
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