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EU4 - Development Diary - 12th of March 2019

Let’s talk about Germany. Before I begin, I’d like you all to spare a few minutes to examine the image below:

nightmare.png


As you may be aware this is a screenshot of the glorious, beautiful, and ambitious EU4 mod ‘Voltaire’s Nightmare’. I’d like to assure you all that we are not going to implement this or anything like this in vanilla EU4.

So what are we going to do? Well for one thing we’re going to continue to rely on abstractions such as the existence of a country called “Switzerland” in 1444 rather than a multitude of semi-independent cantons. “Accuracy”, beyond a certain point, ceases to be relevant or else Voltaire’s Nightmare becomes the standard. Good design, rather than “accuracy”, is what should guide us here.

On that note, I’ve devised a few design guidelines that will advise the way we plan out the region, some of which I’ll share with you now. Bear in mind that these are guidelines and not hard rules; there will likely be the occasional exception.
  • Provinces owned by free cities should be approximately Frankfurt-sized. This creates extra space, as well as a visual distinction between Free Cities and other OPM’s.
  • All other provinces should be noticeably larger than Free City provinces. This sets a limit to how far we should split up the region.

  • A development increase in Germany in to be expected, but we should aim to keep it under control. Germany should not be dramatically more developed in the European update compared to 1.28

  • We should specifically avoid increasing the starting development of majors like Austria, Burgundy, and Bohemia.

  • It is more acceptable for “new” development to be added to weaker and/or new tags

  • It can be tempting to split tags up for the sake of “accuracy”, but keep in mind that we still want a mix of large, small, and medium powers. Consider the impact on the balance of power.

  • Adding new tags designed to begin as vassals is sometimes desirable, but starting liberty desire should be kept under 50%. If this cannot be achieved without disproportionately buffing the development of the overlord, it is better not to have the vassal.

  • Avoid adding independent OPM’s. There are literally hundreds of OPM’s that we could but definitely should not add to the game. New OPM’s should be restricted to Free Cities or else have a very good reason to exist.

  • Avoid non-contiguous country borders. This is messy for a variety of reasons, including military access.

  • Provinces adjacencies should be clearly visible, always more than a few pixels. Likewise avoid ‘four corners’ style adjacencies where possible.

  • It should look good. Think about aesthetics in terms of province borders, states, historical borders, etc.
I’ll skip the nostalgic retrospective today and get right into the gritty details. Let’s take a look at southern Germany:

southgermany.png


Bavaria is looking rather monolithic in 1.28, but it was not so historically. Divided between several Duchies most notably based in Munich, Landshut, and Ingolstadt, the Wittelsbach dynasty is at odds with itself in 1444. Bavaria wouldn’t be united until 1503, when Albrecht IV instituted primogeniture. There were also other independent polities in Bavaria such as the Bishopric of Passau and the Free City of Regensburg. We’re going to have to decide how many Bavarian states are going to exist in 1444, but we are determined for the answer to be “more”. Overall the region’s total development seems a little lackluster compared to the likes of Austria and Bohemia, so expect to see it boosted by comparison.

Looking to the west, there is the potential for more Free Cities in Swabia, as well as splitting the large province of Wurttemberg. Switzerland is trickier. We certainly don’t want to represent each province as a nation, but the fact is that the Swiss Confederacy wasn’t as large in 1444 as we currently present it. Graubünden for instance, later unified under the Three Leagues, had yet to be incorporated. We certainly want to add a province, and very possibly also a tag, for the city of Geneva. Geneva in 1444 was a somewhat unwilling subject of Savoy, and would eventually secure its liberation through entry into the Swiss Confederacy. We're also thinking about how we want to represent that rather unique "government" of the Confederacy, but more on that much later. The passes through the Alps could also use some work; we feel that there ought to be a connection between Savoia and Piedmont, while the pass between Piedmont and Wallis seems less necessary.

northgermany.png


And here’s northern Germany. As I noted in my design guidelines, there’s a temptation to overboard splitting up e.g. Saxony and Brunswick into many small duchies. In this region I think we should resist this urge for the sake of maintaining a mix of countries of different power levels within the HRE. Saxony for instance shall likely remain united. There are however candidates for splitting and potential new tags that could be added to the region. Pomerania and Silesia are both good candidates for division. Luneburg, Verden, and Magdeburg could potentially be elevated from OPM status. New OPM’s such as the Free City of Nordhausen are also possibilities. We’ll be carefully considering which provinces and countries merit inclusion and how they each fit into our overall goals for the region.

Moving on to the Low Countries, this is a region that has seen a lot of iteration over the course of EU4’s history. There is very little that can still be done without over-inflating its province density and risking an excessive reduction in the development of each province. That said, some changes we’re considering include an additional province in Flanders, splitting up Brabant, and adding the province of Julich (though we’re not quite sure how Julich is going to work). The Friesland/Utrecht border is something often complained about and will likely be revised in some way, though the solution probably will not be to add a new province. I’ve also seen suggestions for adding Frisian culture along parts of the coast, which is something we’re considering.

I hope that I’ve been able to give you some insight into the way we think about map changes, and once again I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Germany and the HRE. This concludes our series of dev diaries on the upcoming map changes. Next week you’ll be hearing from me again, but this time on the subject of mission trees.
 
Last edited:

holyvigil

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I'm glad we're done with map changes but I don't like the Mission Tree dev diaries so I'll be happy when both are done.

I wait every Tuesday for first new/changed mechanics, then new events, and lastly new tags and their ideas.
 

JohnC14

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If Bavaria is going to be divided, perhaps it should be added as a formable country decision.

Also, maybe Switzerland could have its own government type in Tier 1 under Republics considering its interesting situation. "Swiss Confederacy"?
 

Em Ay Ef

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Map changes are probably the least important thing a patchlc can add, even lower than mission trees.
In the end it doesn't matter if Memel is a square or a triangle.

What EU4 really needs are better mechanics, both for existing ones and new HRE specific ones and a better AI.
And I hope those things will be the main focus the patchlc and you are only focusing on the map now because those changes are easy to show off early.
From what I've seen, they aren't really showing off any map changes because none were made yet. They'll only start making them after they collect feedback from this thread and from the Suggestions subforum, which is a great way to actually implement the changes that players want and not the ones nobody cares about.
 

IndigoRage

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I’ve also seen suggestions for adding Frisian culture along parts of the coast, which is something we’re considering.
Please look at the suggestions regarding the Frisian Freedom. In game this is represented by a patchwork of republics, East Friesland not being part of the HRE, and Dithmarschen. Realistically aside from a few outliers like Verden, much of the coastline should be very Dithmarschen-esque at this point.
 

jrgen3

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I know the Netherlands recently saw a revision, but I'd like to speak about the Groningen province, the borders of it are nowhere near what they should be, It'd be nice if the Groningen province got split into two provinces, Groningen and Drenthe, since Drenthe was owned by Utrecht at the time
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Locator_Prince-Bishopric_of_Utrecht_(1350).svg
It'd be nice if the borders would look like that
Drenthe was so poor it was exempt from federal taxes and denied representation in the States General. While I would personally add Drenthe if I had an unlimited amount of provinces, I think there are other provinces that should be added before Drenthe.
 

Mouthwash

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Provinces owned by free cities should be approximately Frankfurt-sized. This creates extra space, as well as a visual distinction between Free Cities and other OPM’s.

Free cities do not necessarily remain free cities, and new ones emerge in almost every game I play. I think the province sizes are fine as they are.

Can someone tell me what an OPM is?
 

Old Tercio

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They usually end up in frequent wars against both the Ottomans and France: the two unstoppable forces of EU4. Definitely, AusttAu should be buffed, and France and Ottomans slightly nerfed (specially The Ottomans).
Thats because Historically it was Spain-Austria who were dealing with both treats but in this game Spain is just weak af.
 

jrgen3

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Free cities do not necessarily remain free cities, and new ones emerge in almost every game I play. I think the province sizes are fine as they are.

Can someone tell me what an OPM is?
OPM = One Province Minor.
 

Putuna

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Austria needs a buff badly, it falls off a crater the longer the game goes on to the point where it isn't even relevant mid-late game. Their low dev combined with their ideas means they are doomed to die. In MP they die almost always mid game because they have no dev, money, or good troops. If your not going to buff their dev please at least buff their ideas and make them slightly more military oriented because as it stands their a complete pushover.
 

RileyxStorm

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I love the new map changes but I have to say I think a complete reworking of the HRE mechanics would be nice to see. Although I have no ideas about what it would look like I think a rework would be refreshing for the whole continent.

Also on a side note, Italy is such an interesting nation to form I just wish they had a mission tree to make them more viable/fun to form.
 

OldmansHQ

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@neondt how are you going to split Silesia, if at all?

Also, if there were many more OPMs, a different one end up dominating each game, while the Brandenburgs would remain the Brandenburgs. Wouldn’t that be desirable?
 

Vohen

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Next week you’ll be hearing from me again, but this time on the subject of mission trees.
Update to East Asia like in Third Rome that came with Dharma please.
 

Lord Notna

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Maybe you could split the province of "Luxemburg" into two, so we have one province of the modern luxembourgian borders and the other one maybe somthing like "Arlon", which is the modern day capital of the province "Luxembourg" in Belgium.
 

JayD

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Oh and IF Frisian culture gets into the game then maybe a new culture group shoud appear (Netherland ish/er?) with Dutch, Flemish and Frisian culture (and certainly without Walloon culture). West slavic culture group also has 3 cultures and despite Dutch ppl have some things similar with german language they differ quite a bit. You may also say that English also have some things similar with German language but that's a separate culture group.
 

netherlink

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The Free City of Cologne, since it was one of the biggest cities in Germany. The most important city of the electorate was Bonn.
This.
I think the quiet interesting situation with Kur-Köln and Stadt Köln should be represented.
The City of Cologne was the largest City in Germany, an important member of the Hanse and trading hub between England and Italy.

While Kur-Köln was one of the largest Bishoprics and, obviously, elector to the Kaiser.

The current province of Cologne is big enough to contain a Frankfurt-sized Free City Cologne, with just a little bit of adjustment.

Also, a little bit more wealth to that region would not hurt, as currently western germany is a poor backwater in comparisson to the lowcountries.
 

Chieron

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A taboo on exclaves within the HRE is strange, too. We already have quite some (Austria, Provence, Cologne, etc.), what's wrong with that.
It is fine for some instances, but should be kept in check. It also hurts the AI trying to defend the second part.
That said, I agree that Erfurt should exist and be Mainzian. The Thuringian area is pretty bald represented currently.
The Hesse area is also still rather awkward, seems squashed by Brunswick. Maybe the Mainz province itself could be split, too?

Prussia should be blue and give the grey to Germany instead of that disgusting swamp grey-blue thing!
I rather like the greyish-blue, it is much less annoying to look at for a longer time. For example, the stark French blue is annoying me so much that I would not want to play that nation.

As for the province size, people should remember that Utrecht is already hard to select if there is a unit sitting on it. That should not spread to other provinces.

The capital of Mecklenburg should be in the Wismar province, despite Rostock being the main city.
I would like to see the interior of Mecklenburg (southern part of Rostock, parts of Eastern Wismar) split off as Werle province.
The devs should decide what Uckermark is supposed to be and shape the province accordingly. Currently, it covers both Strelitz/Stargard and Uckermark areas, and belongs to Brandenburg, while Strelitz and Stargard have been Mecklenburgian for the entire period. The Uckermark should lie between Stettin and Berlin, simply because it was the reason it exists. Condensing the rest with Werle would be fine (this would represent the borders of the Mecklenburg-Güstrow division fairly well).