EU4 - Development Diary - 11th of April 2017

[chrnno]

Sorry for the spam, but from what I've noticed, no one is paying attention to my ideas.

Because everything you said so far has been before except more detailed, backed and better written. Thus what point is there in paying attention?

 

[Thranitt]

I really would think that Yuan would be some shade of blue considering how significant this color was for the Mongol people.

Also, what is the source of that flag/banner you gave Yuan? I've never seen it painted in those colors.

 

[Sian]

Sorry for the spam, but from what I've noticed, no one is paying attention to my ideas.

disagreeing with your ideas doesn't mean not noticing them

edit: wrong word used ... blame non-native english

 

[TheDungen]

?
No

Are you saying I don't find that problematic?

Well I do. like you find the slav stuff problematic while I really don't care much about that. The point is we all value different things.

Because everything you said so far has been before except more detailed, backed and better written. Thus what point is there in paying attention?

Not to mention we get the slav rant on the suggestions forum at least once a week. Pretty much as soon as anyone says yugoslavia or balkan everyone who's not from there runs for cover.

 

[Tavior]

I wasn't talking about in game I was talking about reality and how the game failed at allowing for something that has happened a lot in reality.
In reality wealthy port cities could field navies that could hold their own fairly well against navies of entire kingdoms, in game the sheer number of coastal provinces is what matter which means that England will always be on top. While in reality it took the combined effort of the British and the dutch to dethrone Spain as the dominant naval power.

Yeah your only option is to build shipyard + dock line of building everywhere. Get more naval/maritime idea group filled out.

Not much else to do sadly in cases like this.

 

[Dav Yu]

To clarify:
All Altaic cultures CAN form Yuan. But in order to do so you must be the empire of China so you will have to be pagan or eastern (budddhist, Shinto or Confucian) religion at some point to take the Mandate unless you play without the dlc, in which case it only requires being empire rank.

Another requirement to form Yuan is that you control or vassalize all provinces of the eastern Altaic cultures (which ones count will be listed in the tooltip). This means defeating most hordes in the east as well as reclaiming some of Ming's provinces.
The decision to form Yuan itself does not demand a specific religion or government (but as empire of china you will be a celestial empire).
There are other requirements but these are the important ones.

So, are Eastern Altaic cultures conclude all the hordes between Oirat and Manchu tribes? And if Oirat culture itself a member of the "Eastern"? In the history, Oirat usually called their leader Taishi except Esen, who crowned himself as Khagan, for the Chingisid principle that only the descendants of Genghis Khan could be crowned as the Khagan. Esen was sooner got his retribution: be assassinated during the rebellion， and the confederation of Four Oirats was started to break up.
When Dzungar/Choros, Khoshut and Kalmyk/Torghut (we don't have it in current version!) Khanates reclaimed themselves as Khan, is after the Northern Yuan Khanate ("Mongol" in current version) reached the peak during Dayan (means "Great Yuan") Khan period and fallen again. Also, all of them made good relationship with prestigious Tulkus like Dalai Lama to gain the orthodoxy of Khagan crown from religion, since all of the three are Tibetan Vajrayana Buddhism countries. (However, Dzungar and Khoshut was conquered by Qing Empire; Kalmyk was counquered by Russian Empire, some of them moved back to Moghulistan, and submitted to Qing with no other choices; Qing and Russia, in some cases, succeed the status of Khagan.) All I want to say is that, Oirat played as a complex role around the throne of Khagan/Khan, it is OK that you regard it as a member of "eastern Altaic" or not, and I still prefer to consider it as one of the "eastern".

Timur used to tried to invaded China after Jing'nan Campaign, the civil war of throne succession between Zhu Yunwen, the Emperor Jian'wen and his uncle Zhu Di, the Prince of Yan and later Emperor Yong'le; however, he passed away without any achievements about his plan of conquest (Thanks goodness~~). In my opinion, he would not only want to be the Emperor of China, but the ruler of the whole Continent, just like what Genghis Khan and his sons did. In fact, there is not the only Timur, but also other nomad leaders (like Muhammad Shaybani of Uzbek) had such a dream to rebuild the Great Khaganate. That is why I thought "Restore the Mongol Empire" is a good idea.
For the conflict between my wish to "rebuild the Khaganate" (a nomad khaganate) and the upcoming decision to "become the Emperor of China" (a celestial empire), I think that was usually happened to those nomads (no matter they were Aryans/Iranians, Huns, Turks or Mongols) who invaded part of or the entire land of China (in the upcoming version, it represents as "Yuan") or India (in the current version, it represents as "Mughals"): When they get used to the comfortable lives in China or India, they may no longer think about expanding more and more territories. Players should think and decide it carefully.

 

[Dragunov101]

Possibilities of an Austro-Hungarian Empire?

 

[Bella Gerant]

Possibilities of an Austro-Hungarian Empire?

The Dual Monarchy was the consequence of the Liberal Revolutions of 1848 and 1849, the Austrian's defeat in the Austro-Prussian War, its loss of its Italian lands and influence, and the end of its Greater German dreams. Prior to the loss to Prussia, the Hungarians lost their autonomy and representation due to its bloody failed attempt to seize independence. German was instituted as the official language and Hungarian history was suppressed. Not only was it decades (1867) after the end date, the Ausgleich only came about due to a set of extremely unfortunate events occurring to Austria that don't make sense in context of EU4 from 1444 (nationalism, Brandenburg-Prussian ascendance) and on Austrian weakness that would lead to the failure to dominate Germany and become forced to depend on the Hungarians.

Seeing as the initial reaction by the Habsburgs was to suppress the Hungarians rather than compromise and compromise only became attractive after a major military defeat, loss of prestige, and state finances teetering on disaster, I would say that Austria-Hungary doesn't really belong in EU4.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

chrnno
Alright. But admit that it will be useful in this part of the world to streamline. If it is not in patch 1.22, then it will be in 1.23. But in the end, something will start to improve here!

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

Sian
I know my angelski is not the best.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

TheDungen
I know everyone is celebrating his region. This is obvious. I am Slavic so I am most interested in the development of this region. I do not condemn other regions, but I noticed that just a lot of things are overlooked. And it's not just the Slavs. Also as I mentioned Palestine, but also pre-Columbian America (but probably no one playing those countries), Africa (not enough provinces), Australia (same) and Finland (Finns, Estonians and Laplans should belong to a cultural group) .

I ask only for understanding my problem, and although a bit of acceptance.

I ask you to write what you support from my ideas and what not. This will be the best solution.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

Not to mention we get the slav rant on the suggestions forum at least once a week. Pretty much as soon as anyone says yugoslavia or balkan everyone who's not from there runs for cover.

I'm not from balkan. I'm Polish. This can be seen from the avatar.

 

[TheDungen]

The Dual Monarchy was the consequence of the Liberal Revolutions of 1848 and 1849, the Austrian's defeat in the Austro-Prussian War, its loss of its Italian lands and influence, and the end of its Greater German dreams. Prior to the loss to Prussia, the Hungarians lost their autonomy and representation due to its bloody failed attempt to seize independence. German was instituted as the official language and Hungarian history was suppressed. Not only was it decades (1867) after the end date, the Ausgleich only came about due to a set of extremely unfortunate events occurring to Austria that don't make sense in context of EU4 from 1444 (nationalism, Brandenburg-Prussian ascendance) and on Austrian weakness that would lead to the failure to dominate Germany and become forced to depend on the Hungarians.

Seeing as the initial reaction by the Habsburgs was to suppress the Hungarians rather than compromise and compromise only became attractive after a major military defeat, loss of prestige, and state finances teetering on disaster, I would say that Austria-Hungary doesn't really belong in EU4.

That would be as a decision you can take if you have hungarian nationalist rebels spawned, despawns them changes the tags and adds a ton of autonomy to hungarian provinces and makes hungarian an accepted culture if it's not already.

 

[TheDungen]

TheDungen
I know everyone is celebrating his region. This is obvious. I am Slavic so I am most interested in the development of this region. I do not condemn other regions, but I noticed that just a lot of things are overlooked. And it's not just the Slavs. Also as I mentioned Palestine, but also pre-Columbian America (but probably no one playing those countries), Africa (not enough provinces), Australia (same) and Finland (Finns, Estonians and Laplans should belong to a cultural group) .

I ask only for understanding my problem, and although a bit of acceptance.

I ask you to write what you support from my ideas and what not. This will be the best solution.

Well there is an entire subforum for suggestions
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/euiv-suggestions.874/

When it comes to culture in the game, first of culture group is not the same as language group, secondly game play reasons win out over historical ones. There used to be a fennougric culture group it was removed in a recent update because it didn't work well. Also because it killed the debate whether there should be Swedish provinces in western Finland or not, now they can say that Finnish as it is in the game is the unique cultural mix between Swedish and Finnish culture. Same thing with the Transylvanian and Swiss cultures, they don't represent cultures as much as areas with a fairly diverse mix cultures.
There already is a unique government for polish, it's called elective monarchy but it represents the sejm.
And pommerania is German because the ruling classes of Pomerania were German. The farmers and fishermen spoke slavic languges with each other but when sweden took control of the area, they too used German to communicate which shows how Germanized at least the urban areas already were. And the game after 17th or 18th century is from 2/3 to 1/2 of the game period. The game starts in the mid 15th century and end in the early 19th. I am fairly well versed in the history of the area since my grandfather came from hinterpommern.
Dutch belong in the German culture group in 1444 you can't really tell the difference between dutch and westphalian it's essentially the same culture.
Minor cultures in the Carpathian culture group are in that culture group to keep hungary from culture converting them to hungarian, that's the same reason that Breton is in the French culture group rather than Celtic as it would be linguistically.
The idea of a pan Slavic empire has no place in this time frame it's a much later idea, it shows up in late Victoria (I assume you know that paradox also makes a game called victoria2 which is set in the post Napoleonic era, probably their best game though a bit dated).

I'm not from balkan. I'm Polish. This can be seen from the avatar.

I never said you were from the Balkans but you mentioned them, and I'm not getting into that discussion. Basically because whenever someone starts discussing the Balkans it always turns into people from different former yugoslavian countries having a row about who's fault the war was.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

I do not agree with Pomerania: everyone spoke in Pomeranian, and this is Slavic. Pomeranian rulers - Gryfów were born from the Piasts - Polish rulers, they used the Pomeranian language, they were only Germanized around the 17th century. Peasants were Germanized only after German unification.

Carpathian culture itself is stupid. It is better to have real cultures in place.

 

[Mingmung]

I do not agree with Pomerania: everyone spoke in Pomeranian, and this is Slavic. Pomeranian rulers - Gryfów were born from the Piasts - Polish rulers, they used the Pomeranian language, they were only Germanized around the 17th century. Peasants were Germanized only after German unification.

Carpathian culture itself is stupid. It is better to have real cultures in place.

Paradox isn't stupid, they know this. It has more to do with gameplay than with history.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

Paradox is not stupid. Stupid is just a carpathian culture that never existed.

 

[TheDungen]

I do not agree with Pomerania: everyone spoke in Pomeranian, and this is Slavic. Pomeranian rulers - Gryfów were born from the Piasts - Polish rulers, they used the Pomeranian language, they were only Germanized around the 17th century. Peasants were Germanized only after German unification.

My grandfather was a peasant (fisherman) in pommerania, his parents (or at the very least grandparents) will have been around before unification he did not speak a word of any slavic language. And if the language was so widespread as you say then killing it would have taken a lot more than one generation, even under concentrated efforts. You are misinformed.

When the Greifen dynasty was in charge of the Kalmar union it made itself unpopular by giving land to german noblemen in Sweden, so it doesn't really sound like most of their nobles were in fact slavic.

You may want to read this, turns out the germanification of the countryside began in the 12th century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Pomerania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung

Carpathian culture itself is stupid. It is better to have real cultures in place.

And no it is not because then the entire area is hungarian by 1500.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

TheDungen

My grandfather was a peasant (fisherman) in pommerania, his parents (or at the very least grandparents) will have been around before unification he did not speak a word of any slavic language. And if the language was so widespread as you say then killing it would have taken a lot more than one generation, even under concentrated efforts. You are misinformed.

When the Greifen dynasty was in charge of the Kalmar union it made itself unpopular by giving land to german noblemen in Sweden, so it doesn't really sound like most of their nobles were in fact slavic.

You may want to read this, turns out the germanification of the countryside began in the 12th century.

Or maybe your ancestors were German colonizers? Your grandfather could have lived in the Second World War. Then national minorities were persecuted - especially Jews, Gypsies and SLAVIC. If you know history then you know what happened to them.

Somewhat wrongly, I said that all spoke in Pomeranian, the nobility, and the king could gradually wither germanization. It does not mean that the peasants and the burghers spoke German. Pomerania has undergone germanization. It must also be remembered that in the later years pomeranism was murdered and resettled in times like Bismarck and Hitler.
If that does not suit you - Slavic Pomerania, let's do Pomerania is a country whose primary culture is Saxon culture, and all its provinces (or most) have Pomeranian culture (West-Slavic).

And no it is not because then the entire area is hungarian by 1500.

Carpathian culture is contrary to reality, history and culture. She has only a geographical sense. Slovaks are Slavs, Hungarians are descendants of Magyars, and relatives of Rumanians are eg hairs.

 

[TheDungen]

TheDungen



Or maybe your ancestors were German colonizers? Your grandfather could have lived in the Second World War. Then national minorities were persecuted - especially Jews, Gypsies and SLAVIC. If you know history then you know what happened to them.

Somewhat wrongly, I said that all spoke in Pomeranian, the nobility, and the king could gradually wither germanization. It does not mean that the peasants and the burghers spoke German. Pomerania has undergone germanization. It must also be remembered that in the later years pomeranism was murdered and resettled in times like Bismarck and Hitler.
If that does not suit you - Slavic Pomerania, let's do Pomerania is a country whose primary culture is Saxon culture, and all its provinces (or most) have Pomeranian culture (West-Slavic).

Pommeranian as is in the game is the unique mix of slavic and Germanic influences. But in 1444 the german ones are already the dominant ones therefore it is a german culture (the article I posted points out the germans were majority as early as the 14th century a full century before EU4 starts). The german Pomeranians were not saxons, they were Pomeranians. They considered themselves as such. But not slavic Pommerianians. And also not Kashubians or speakers of slovincian.
And what was resettled by bismark and murdered by hitler were isolated settlements who had kept the old language. But they made up a very small part of the population. The provinces were by far majority german long before unification. The language the people spoke was east low german, and that's what bismark was trying to stamp out.
If you want to know what really happened to the slavic pommeranians the true answer is the 30 years war, which wiped out 2/3rds of the population of the duchy of pommerania including the old ducal line, then afterwards german and nordic settlers replaced those who died. That's where my family come in, came from norway to pommerania after the 30 year war, well the male line did, it's ten generations ago I would guess they got mixed up with the locals so I still probably have some slavic blood. Though i should really have that tested some day, would be interesting.

Carpathian culture is contrary to reality, history and culture. She has only a geographical sense. Slovaks are Slavs, Hungarians are descendants of Magyars, and relatives of Rumanians are eg hairs.

No it has game play sense, if those provinces are not of the same culture group then the AI will culture convert them.