EU4 - Development Diary - 11th of April 2017

[Khor]

I wrote an essay on the roots of the Magyars a few semesters ago, which I can't find right now - only a few notes, which is why I'm a tad bit uncertain about this - but as far as I remember, we can, with a lot of certainty, pinpoint the exact spot where the Magyars - or at least their language - originated. Some linguists disemboweled the Hungarian language and tore out all the words they took over from other peoples - mostly old Iranian tribes, especially the Sarmatians - until only the words remained that were undoubtedly of fennougric origin. They then took the words naming plants and reconstructed the climate and flora of 1500 BC from fossilized pollen. Their findings suggest that the Hungarians likely originally hail from the river Pechora region in the northern Ural region. From there (~500 BC), they slowly started migrating southwards - most of their words relating to farming are of Iranian origin - and founded the first Hungarian empire on the middle Volga in coalition with the Iranian Alans and Sarmatians at some point between 350 and 550 - no one really knows what happened in the 1.000 years inbetween. Around 750, they were forced westward by the invading Pechenegs - although Hungarian-speaking groups still existed there in 1230, when a Hungarian monk searched for them - and entered a federation with some Turkish tribes and were somehow intertwined with the Khasars. Around 840, they were, again, forced westward by the Pechenegs, now somewhere north of Bulgaria, and became mercenaries to pretty much everyone with power in Europe. Finally, in 895, the Magyars were attacked by the Pechenegs yet again and retreated - with around 500.000 people - to Pannonia, which was mostly empty ever since Charlemagne had smashed the Avar empire in 803. There, they stayed.

tl;dr: Hungarians are linguistically not slavic, the languages have literally nothing to do with each other. Maybe ethnically, but the Slavs were already well-established when the Hungarians arrived in Europe. Some of them might have been part of the huns, but since we do not really have linguistic sources of the Huns, we can only guess were they came from - as far as I know, it's most likely that they were a wild mixture of ethnicities, anyway, likely communicating in some pidgin language.

A few things about this:

- Western linguistic people tend to make a very big mistake about the Hungarian language. In the decades of 1790-1820 hundreds of words were added which were created by a language reform and the system of the language was changed. Many tend to skip this part. If they take a lets say 13th century version, it is quite different.
- I wrote earlier, that the thing "finno-ugric" is more of modern heresy in scientific ways. If you take the words and system before 1790, than it is clear, that it has as much common things as the Hungarians have with for example the French. Nothing more.
- the Mongolians have more words common with the Hungarians than the Finns. Than are we Mongol-ugric?
- I also wrote earlier, that Chinese and Eastern historians and linguists have a hell of a lot more sources which they can use, and there it is a definitive fact, that the Hungarian tribes were part of the Hun Empire, or more properly the Hun Tribal Union
- The Huns, along with the Hungarians, Cumans, Pechenegs etc. were offspring of the Scythians, which were proved by archaeological finds
- The Hungarian runic writing called Rovásírás has also proven both the relation to the Hun Empire and the Scythian heritage
- When the Hungarians arrived in the Carpathian basin, they have taken it without a fight. Not because of their superiority, but because the remnant Avars immediately accepted them. There are a lot of proves, that it is possible they also spoke the same language. Just to be clear we call it now Hungarian language, because only the Hungarians speak it now, it could be true, that more tribes have spoken it. Of the seven tribes which arrived in the Carpathian basin only five was Hungarian, two was Kabar, but according to Byzantine sources they spoke the same language. After the arrival they made a blood-pact, which also has its roots in the Scythian past.

 

[priamossz]

will this new patch kill saves that currently going? I chose to play a stellaris campaign first when i bought the 10% of deal and now i might not have time to complete a campaign.

 

[AgeofKing]

- What many people forget is that medieval Hungary consisted of Upper Hungary, Central Hungary, Transylvania, Southern Hungary which also included Szerém/Szerémség AND Slavonia. What the kings of Hungary actually called Croatia would be the provinces of Lika, Dalmatia and Donji Kraji in game. One could also make an argument that the province of Zagreb should also be part of it, however, the city was part of Slavonia at the time and the border was right in the middle of the province of in-game Zagreb.
- This begs the question: should we create an OPM/2PM as a junior PU partner that has cores on Dalmatia and Donji Kraji? Personally, I believe that a permanently high autonomy would be more accurate for the region but seeing the desire for the PU I'm in the minority here.
- Hungary was not an elective monarchy. At least not by Polish standards. The Hungarian nobilty only elected a king if the ruling dynasty didn't have a legitimate male heir. Vladislaus I was elected as king because nobody knew whether the unborn child of the previous king would be boy or not.
I find the rest of your ideas pretty good but I thought this needed to be cleared up a bit.

Lot of great things pointed out here As a Hungarian I hope to see some in the new patch. Can't wait to see what will be changed.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

My suggestions:

• Slovak culture should be added to the group of Western-Slavic cultures because their culture is Slavic and not Carpathian. Slovaks are closer to the Czechs than the Hungarian.

• Pomerania culture should be added to Western Slavic cultures. Their culture was not Germanize until 17-18.

• It is necessary to creating Slovenia (South Slavic culture) and Lusatia (Western-Slavic culture).

• Albanian culture does not belong to the group of South-Slavic cultures.

• Possibility of creating Belgium, California, Texas and Kingdom of Sicily.

• Possibility of creating the Slavic Empire, in playing the countries belonging to the cultural groups: Western Slavs, Eastern Slavs and Slavs.

• Countries belonging to the South Slavic cultural group may form Yugoslavia.

New cultural groups should be created:

• Hungarian and Romanian culture in place Carpathian culture
• Ugro-finnish culture from the Scandynawian culture
• Dutch, Northern German and South German in place Germanic culture.

• There should be new provinces in Europe.

 

[ramrom]

I think naval/maritime ideas should provide ship upgrades instead of diplo tech, or at least the later ones.
I also think blockades should provide devastation (not sure if there is or isn't already) and big supply limit reduction for provinces. It can also hurt land morale slightly.
Would make navies more meaningful imo.

 

[GeneralJhon]

will this new patch kill saves that currently going? I chose to play a stellaris campaign first when i bought the 10% of deal and now i might not have time to complete a campaign.

I believe so, since with the new patch they are adding new provinces in hungary - serbia, Which if you continue to playing your actual game, will appear as a blank. I would like to receive any confirmation. Right now, i have put a away EU until the new patch comes and i have just bought Utopia so i can play Stellaris now.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

It would be cool if there was a new culture system. In every province there would be the main culture and minority culture (a second). In this way most territorial claims would make sense. For example, in the province of Kraków the main culture is Polish culture, while the other is the Slovak culture, while in Danzig the main culture is Pomeranian (in accordance with history, currently in the EU4 the main culture of the province is Prussia) and the second Prussian. The borders of the countries are mixed culturally. In this system, the main culture and the culture of the minority were given. In the central provinces of the country, the culture of the minority would be a Jewish culture (the Jews lived in bigger cities). During the conversion of culture (eg in the province of Kraków) it was easier to change the Polish culture to Slovak culture, for example in this province the culture is 35%. At present it does not matter what country is playing, and with which culture, and yet the conversion of the province begins with 0%. In addition, there would be a new option for military units - a purge that would reduce the percentage of a province's culture.

Please consider my idea, and i please its development

 

[themegatree]

Glad Yuan will be in the game

 

[Samet von Preussen]

i hope that ''Navy'' becomes more important

 

[otaats]

Geographically that new province in Serbia should be Macva / Macsó or Macsóság / Maçva / Matschva, with Sabac as town. And Smederevo and Branicevo as province names is confusing as both Smederevo as a town and Branicevo as a county are east of Belgrade.

Maybe call the east province Branicevo with Smederevo as a town, and the west Podrinje (by the river Drina) with Uzice or Valjevo as a town, now that Sabac has separate province.

It's Belgrade. Sabac was a small settlement in that time.

 

[otaats]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nándor

Nándor - medieval term for Bulgar
fehér - white
vár - town

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandor_(Middle-earth)

Might be the gate to Hungary as well, one does not simply walk into Mordor. Mountains on all sides, just missing a big f**king volcano next to Buda castle.

You can find the post in the first link in my signature. There was a Hungarian dude who told me that, i'm not making things up

Okay, checked it. It was called Nandorfehervar until 15th cent, then it was called Fehervar due to not being Bulgar city anymore.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ces-for-eastern-europe.1013338/#post-22669326

I recommend join this discussion

 

[Dav Yu]

I wondered that which cultures in Altaic culture group could form the Yuan dynasty (that are called as "Eastern Altaic cultures" in this diary)?

Also, I suggest that you can make the requirement of the achievement "The Great Khan" as one of the requirements of a new decision to form the Great Mongol Khaganate/Empire, and the culture group to form Mongol Empire should be Altaic or Tatar, the government type should be steppe nomad. Of course, some formable countries cannot form Monglo Empire, and Mongol Empire cannot form any other formable countries. Mongol Empire can exists if the save from CK2 has actually formed this empire and the save of CK2 is turned into EU4. You can also make another achievement if the country which formed the Mongol Empire is formed by Golden Horde, Mongol, Chagatai, whatever the direct successor countries of Mongol Empire after it divided; or the ruling family is Borjigin, the imperial clan of Genghis Khan and his descendants.

 

[Trin Tragula]

To clarify:
All Altaic cultures CAN form Yuan. But in order to do so you must be the empire of China so you will have to be pagan or eastern (budddhist, Shinto or Confucian) religion at some point to take the Mandate unless you play without the dlc, in which case it only requires being empire rank.

Another requirement to form Yuan is that you control or vassalize all provinces of the eastern Altaic cultures (which ones count will be listed in the tooltip). This means defeating most hordes in the east as well as reclaiming some of Ming's provinces.
The decision to form Yuan itself does not demand a specific religion or government (but as empire of china you will be a celestial empire).
There are other requirements but these are the important ones.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

I would like a patch 1.22 to be of Slav countries. The area covered by this patch is the largest in Europe. It has two empireses: Russia and the Commonwealth.
In these countries culturess belonging to any cultural group (Slavic)
wouldes be acceptables.
By playing one of these countries one could create the Slavic Empire - gaining lands belonging to Slavic cultural groups.
New provinces and new cultures will be added.
Eg.
Slovenian culture
Lusatian culture
Moravian culture
Podlasian culture
Pomeranian and Slovakian cultures were added to the group of West Slavic cultures.
Countries belonging to the South Slavic group could form Yugoslavia - to defend themselves against the expansion of the Ottomans.
Added to the Commonwealth a special system of government - the Sejm.
A new elector will be elected in it after the death of the last member of the ruling dynasty. The term of power would last until the death of the ruler or his overthrow. The rulers who had had a royal dynasty with their former dynasty left the candidates for the king's election. There would also be special edicts on the rights of the nobility. When they get there then the ruler has more support when it goes back and leads the war of the gentry proclaims rebellion.

You could also create a patch or DLC that would extend the game time (the beginning of 1409 - Polish-Teutonic War).

 

[Bella Gerant]

To clarify:
All Altaic cultures CAN form Yuan. But in order to do so you must be the empire of China so you will have to be pagan or eastern (budddhist, Shinto or Confucian) religion at some point to take the Mandate unless you play without the dlc, in which case it only requires being empire rank.

Another requirement to form Yuan is that you control or vassalize all provinces of the eastern Altaic cultures (which ones count will be listed in the tooltip). This means defeating most hordes in the east as well as reclaiming some of Ming's provinces.
The decision to form Yuan itself does not demand a specific religion or government (but as empire of china you will be a celestial empire).
There are other requirements but these are the important ones.

Ah, for Manchu (seeing as any Manchu culture nation will be able to form it), will forming it give Manchu ideas and horde government form or will it just give the name and claims?

 

[TheDungen]

I would like a patch 1.22 to be of Slav countries. The area covered by this patch is the largest in Europe. It has two empireses: Russia and the Commonwealth.
In these countries culturess belonging to any cultural group (Slavic)
wouldes be acceptables.
By playing one of these countries one could create the Slavic Empire - gaining lands belonging to Slavic cultural groups.
New provinces and new cultures will be added.
Eg.
Slovenian culture
Lusatian culture
Moravian culture
Podlasian culture
Pomeranian and Slovakian cultures were added to the group of West Slavic cultures.
Countries belonging to the South Slavic group could form Yugoslavia - to defend themselves against the expansion of the Ottomans.
Added to the Commonwealth a special system of government - the Sejm.
A new elector will be elected in it after the death of the last member of the ruling dynasty. The term of power would last until the death of the ruler or his overthrow. The rulers who had had a royal dynasty with their former dynasty left the candidates for the king's election. There would also be special edicts on the rights of the nobility. When they get there then the ruler has more support when it goes back and leads the war of the gentry proclaims rebellion.

You could also create a patch or DLC that would extend the game time (the beginning of 1409 - Polish-Teutonic War).

Yes your intrest in slavic cultures has been noted.

Ah, for Manchu (seeing as any Manchu culture nation will be able to form it), will forming it give Manchu ideas and horde government form or will it just give the name and claims?

Isn't Manchu chinese culture group?

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

Yes your intrest in slavic cultures has been noted.

Sorry for the spam, but from what I've noticed, no one is paying attention to my ideas. In this game most of the shortcomings are in the Slavs.

I also think about the development of other regions.

 

[TheDungen]

Sorry for the spam, but from what I've noticed, no one is paying attention to my ideas. In this game most of the shortcomings are in the Slavs.

According to you, I have a much bigger problem with the naval aspects being marginalized, not to mention colonialism getting some pretty odd results.

 

[BOSSOVSKY]

According to you, I have a much bigger problem with the naval aspects being marginalized, not to mention colonialism getting some pretty odd results.

?
No