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Welcome to the second dev diary for Europa Universalis 4: Art of War. Today, a look at a new way to handle vassals, how we're changing revolts and a sneak peek at how the Persian map is being transformed.

Marches
Marches are a new type of subject that can be created from existing vassals. By designating your vassal as a March, you are giving that vassal greatly expanded autonomy in exchange for greater military service. A March does not pay taxes to its Overlord and cannot be diplomatically annexed. However, they get a 25% bonus to manpower, a 30% bonus to force limits and have 20% better fort defense, making them useful as military buffers against enemy states, or when you simply need additional soldiers more than you need the income from those territories. March status can be retracted, but doing so results in a stability hit and a very large opinion penalty with the vassal whose autonomy you just revoked.

Unrest & Rebels

The old system of revolt risk, with a chance of rebels spawning in a province by random chance every month has gone the way of the dodo. It was a system that has served us well through many versions of Europa Universalis, but we think we have something better.

The new concept reflecting unhappy subjects is called unrest. Unrest in a province will affect how quickly regiments and ships can be recruited there, but it has no direct impact on your economy, since we've introduced Local Autonomy to cover that side of the ledger.

Every province is aligned with one possible rebel faction. Each month, every province has a chance (depending on its unrest level) to see an increase in the progress of an uprising from the local rebels. When the progress reaches 100%, the faction rises up in revolt with as many stacks it has support for, and the unrest is reduced in those provinces - they have expressed their anger through arms and it's up to you to put them down.

Because unrest can happen anywhere, building courthouses and employing theologians is now a good strategy to reduce general unrest, not to mention adopting a few policies to placate the masses. The old tyrannical standby of Harsh Treatment now targets rebel factions instead of provinces and reduces the progress towards an uprising from that faction at a cost in MIL points, scaled to the size of this particular rebel faction. This change means we should get less micromanagement and more direct control of popular satisfaction in the hands of the player.

There is also no longer a distinction between accepted and enforced demands from successful rebellions. A rebel faction's demands are always the same.

In a more positive change, any Rebels that are friendly to you, either through culture or support will lift Fog of War for you.


Persia
Last week, we dove into the doubling of Indian provinces. Another region that has seen substantial changes in our great map overhaul is Greater Persia and the Caucasus.
In 1444 this region is to a large extent split between the still sort of impressive empire of Timur's descendants in the east and the rising Qara Qoyunlu empire in the west. Just like in the last dev diary, the diversity of the region means that it's perhaps best to go over its various parts in turn.

The Caucasus:

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In the time depicted by EU4, the rugged Caucasus will be the border line between the Turkish, Persian and eventually Russian Empires. Throughout all of this, the valleys and the slopes of these mountains are home to a number of different peoples and states attempting to preserve their independence against hungry neighbours.
In order to portray the independent nature and resilience of the area, a new Caucasian culture group has been added to the game. Apart from the familiar Armenian and Georgian cultures, this new group is also made up of the newly introduced Circassian and Dagestani cultures. The tag and province setups have been revised accordingly.

New Tags:
  • Imereti: Small kingdom that can appear in western Georgia (or in late start dates). Historically, this state became part of the Ottoman sphere of influence in Georgia.
  • Circassia: Small Orthodox tribal monarchy in the northern Caucasus representing the various minor states there. This is the primary tag for provinces of Circassian culture.
  • Gazikumukh: A small Shiite kingdom in the northeastern Caucasus. This is the primary tag for provinces of Dagestani culture.


Western Persia:

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While entirely locked in the struggle between the Timurid and Qara Qoyunlu empires in 1444, Western Persia is soon going to be the site of the rise of the Qizilbash and the birth of the Safavid Empire. This region is defined by densely populated valleys with a strong urban Persian culture, both of which the map can now portray in a better way in terms of borders and province density.
As in the Caucasus, including more provinces also allows us to include some of the smaller players in the region.

New Tags:
  • Tabaristan: A small kingdom along the southern coast of the Caspian sea. Primary tag for the new Mazandarani culture.
  • Ardalan: A small Kurdish kingdom in the Zagros mountains.


Khorasan and Baluchistan

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Where western Persia is dominated by mountain ranges and rich valleys, Eastern Persia is a region of mountain ranges and deserts. Due to the much harsher climate, most of Khorasan would often be incorporated into surrounding empires unless these were too weak to control the vast area. The even more inhospitable Baluchistan would remain independent, divided into various tribal entities, for most of the period covered by the game.
The greater number of provinces here primarily means that conquering and traversing this region isn't going to be as easy as it was prior to AoW and will also mean that the revolts that historically started in this area will be a bit harder to put down.

Afghanistan

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Home to thriving cities such as Herat and Kabul, Afghanistan is richer and more influential than the rest of Eastern Persia. During the period covered by EU4, states such as the Mughal or the Durrani empires used this region as a jumping off point to successfully to expand into India or Persia.
The AoW map accentuates the role of Afghanistan as a good base for expansion and a gateway between east and west. In order to show the importance of the Khyber and Bolan passes as routes into India, a wasteland province has also been added to represent the Suleiman mountain range in eastern Afghanistan.
 

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Lemont Elwood

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So under the new system we should only ever have to fight one rebellion from a province at a time? Like if I crush the rebellion, it won't come back a month later.
 

wingzero890

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Will the map redesign in central asia and the addition of new see an overall increase in economic output for the region, like what you mentioned in the last devblog? Or is the productivity and value going to be roughly the same, but simply divided up amongst these new provinces?

After the overhaul in Art of War, India is made up of 153 provinces. This has added a considerable level of detail to the subcontinent and, much like in Europe, you'll now see a higher province density in richer areas especially. The Indian tax and manpower base has also been boosted a bit to compensate for the added amount of provinces.
 

mgoetze

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So a typical vassal could get 10,625 max manpower instead of 10,500? Or what exactly do you mean by "25% bonus"?

Don't you mean 13,125?

That is exactly the question. Pretty much all the manpower bonuses in the game so far work like this: you have 500 manpower from provinces, you get a +25% bonues, so 625, and then the 10,000 base max manpower gets tacked on after that. Which is why having a master recruiter as a small nation is utterly pointless. My question is whether having a small vassal as a march is going to be equally pointless.
 

Morricane

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I thought about it and that is true. And honestly who needs four allies? Thought about the benefeits and I think it is pretty cool. Curious to see if they will give them some ideas that support marches since they won't get the benefeit of "vassal income +25%" or even diplomatic annexation cost really.

A permanent vassal is simply nothing less than an ally who will never backstab you just because it took some *** mission and always join your wars anyway :)
The best candidates are obviously nations which have a decent size of accepted cultures since you can sell them provinces that are not their cores more easily - and in addition you spending no admin+diplo points on their cultural sphere at all(!) leaves your precious MP to conquer stufff somewhere else. I did that with Novgorod feeding Norway all of Scandinavia recently and kept them until the end of the game...it also looked quite nice on the map (I also kept Ukraine around and fed them provinces as well)
A bonus for keeping them besides the monarch point save would have been the icing on the cake.
 

Bluehawk

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A quick localization modification can fix that:D

It's not really an issue of terminology; the Gazikumukh Khanate was one of many many states in Dagestan. The region was fractured politically and linguistically, but Paradox probably doesn't want to give the small region four or five provinces and make them all OPMs. Dagestan could be a formable TAG if there were other competing states in the region, but it seems the Gazikumukh, the largest and longest lasting, will stand in for the whole region.
 

yahiko

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I think the marches have to be tweaked a bit. Such as still giving the vassal forcelimit.

It sounds very good for a nation like Austria who has no military bonus. You keep nations that have some military bonus's as a march and take advantage of their military.

I'm just wondering if there is a historical basis for this march vassal system. It seems very feudal instead of renaissance.

In France, the lord at the head of a march was given the title of "Marquis"
For instance Brittany was one the most important march (1609-1657)
 

grommile

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I would support a Levantine group, but with so many new provinces included in the Near East to help with accepting cultures it may be more satisfactory to have Turkish together with Persian, Kurdish etc into the proper Turco-Persian culture (altaic getting renamed to Turco-Mongolic, ie the nomads),
Altaic doesn't need renaming, since to a first approximation the word means "Turco-Mongolic". It refers to the Altaic languages, a conjectural grouping of language families comprising the Turkic (Turkish, Tatar, Uzbek, etc), Mongolic (e.g. Mongolian), and Tungusic (e.g. Jurchen) languages, and in later versions of the concept also the Koreanic (Korean) and Japonic (Japanese, Ainu, Okinawan, etc.) languages.

Turkish culture was moved out of the Altaic group into the same group as the Arabs for AI-friendliness reasons early in EU3's lifespan; I think the Manchu, Korean, and Japanese cultures have always been filed in the East Asian group alongside Han.
 

1alexey

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The rebels do not revolt all over, they will rise in a few large stacks (total size depending on how many provinces support them).
Will the provinces supporting rebels be instantly turned to their controll?
Will a country get a manpower malus at the start of rebelion, as some of the possible recruits could take arms against the state?
The most absurd part about rebels is that they are actually a threat to your military. The only time they should really pose a serious threat is when you are in a major war and you have a large rebel outbreak. Or you are just an unstable, illegitimate, tyrannical nutcase regime that has angered almost every constituency.
Then have a good hard look at for example Cossac rebelions in PLC, where rebels destroyed the army of PLC several times, and Poland was not at war in 1648, or British civil war, where Parliament won.
Or Hungarian revolt that Austria simply couldn`t suppress and was forced to ask Russia to do it.

The instances where rebels can just win against the full state army should be rare, but possible, as history proves. Especially in country where the aristocracy/parliament forces small army on the king for their political benefit, or the culture of the ruling elite is relativly small.
 

PostTenebrasLux

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Then have a good hard look at for example Cossac rebelions in PLC, where rebels destroyed the army of PLC several times, and Poland was not at war in 1648, or British civil war, where Parliament won.
Or Hungarian revolt that Austria simply couldn`t suppress and was forced to ask Russia to do it.

The instances where rebels can just win against the full state army should be rare, but possible, as history proves. Especially in country where the aristocracy/parliament forces small army on the king for their political benefit, or the culture of the ruling elite is relativly small.

You clearly didn't read my follow up posts, where I clarified this. I just think ordinary peasant/nationalist/patriot/zealot rebels are usually too disciplined and effective as a fighting force. When the country is in some kind of civil war, that's a different story.
 

Hakuromatsu

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You clearly didn't read my follow up posts, where I clarified this. I just think ordinary peasant/nationalist/patriot/zealot rebels are usually too disciplined and effective as a fighting force. When the country is in some kind of civil war, that's a different story.

This is true.

The discipline/morale balance of rebels is out of whack. It's not unreasonable that a plucky rebel force can entrench itself in its homeland and drive off a standing army, but it shouldn't be dealing hundreds of casualties of damage each tick.
 

Clonefusion

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This is true.

The discipline/morale balance of rebels is out of whack. It's not unreasonable that a plucky rebel force can entrench itself in its homeland and drive off a standing army, but it shouldn't be dealing hundreds of casualties of damage each tick.
The issue is That if u lower that the Rebels become Even less off an issue than atm. In eu3 u did Not need to raise maintain to fight Rebels, in eu4 u have to Raise mainteanance ANd Rebels are a Little annoyance, But Not more.
 

PostTenebrasLux

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The issue is That if u lower that the Rebels become Even less off an issue than atm. In eu3 u did Not need to raise maintain to fight Rebels, in eu4 u have to Raise mainteanance ANd Rebels are a Little annoyance, But Not more.

Single rebel stacks shouldn't be costly to manpower in the slightest. Right now, if you're not particularly big and you get a massive patriot revolt in one of you recent conquests, then they can eat through your manpower and sometimes even win. Such an event was highly unlikely to say the least. Rebels simply did not have the discipline to be an effective fighting force most of the time.
 

Ivashanko

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Not sure about marches, but the updated rebel system was 100% needed. Please put something like this in CK2 and all your future games. It sounds like it could be further refined, but this is an excellent first step.

Also, I know there should probably still be one province that is majority Zoroastrian (Mazandaran, and perhaps one or two of the regions around it) during this time period. Any chance we'll have that reflected in the game? I can't imagine it would matter, but it would be fun to bring the Zoroastrians back from the utter brink somehow.
 

PiriReis

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Not sure about marches, but the updated rebel system was 100% needed. Please put something like this in CK2 and all your future games. It sounds like it could be further refined, but this is an excellent first step.

Also, I know there should probably still be one province that is majority Zoroastrian (Mazandaran, and perhaps one or two of the regions around it) during this time period. Any chance we'll have that reflected in the game? I can't imagine it would matter, but it would be fun to bring the Zoroastrians back from the utter brink somehow.

You got a source on that one to read on? Majority Zoroastrian in that province in 1444.