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Developer Diary | Small Features #2

Greetings all,

We’re still well in the middle of Swedish vacation time, but our regular schedule is not entirely interrupted: today’s diary covers a few of the smaller features being added in AAT.


Special Forces Doctrines

For a while now we’ve wanted to give countries a way of specializing their special forces. Numerous militaries relied heavily on these elite troops, and some branches of what HOI4 terms ‘special forces’ really found their identity during and around the second world war.

I believe we’ve reached a good saturation point for equipment designers, and I wanted to tackle special forces in a manner that better befits strategic capability over detailed stat modification. The prolonged global conflict our game portrays led to significant doctrinal development when it comes to how militaries employed elite forces, and this seemed like a good place to start.

In AAT, a fourth doctrine page has been added:

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While any country can continue to make use of the Mountaineers, Marines and Paratroopers they are familiar with simply by researching the tech, doing so will unlock the ability to choose the corresponding special forces branch specialism.

These doctrines will also cost experience, however unlike the other military doctrines each branch here will use the corresponding experience type: Army XP for mountaineers, Naval XP for Marines, and Air XP for paratroopers.

The number of branch specialisms you can pick is limited however: initially to 1. Some nations earn the early ability to unlock a second (and final) branch specialism in their focus trees, but all nations that reach major status (this condition may be relaxed) will eventually earn the right to pick their second branch during the progress of the war.

Why not all 3? The [Insert Country Here] military used all three of these!

Well, partly for balance reasons, and partly because these specialisms don’t represent the ability to use paras, mountaineers or marines, but the adoption of their capabilities as part of a military’s core doctrinal philosophy.

We also wanted these doctrine choices to do more than give you stat bonuses - although of course these will be present. We wanted the choices you make here to a) change how you consider designing your divisions, and b) potentially change how you actively use your special forces on a strategic level.

Mountaineers

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Initially, elevating the mountaineers will grant you a mountaineer supply usage reduction (decimal bug noted!), and some general special forces combat bonuses. Importantly, you’ll also unlock the Rangers support company: a more combat oriented alternative to mounted recon, with higher organization, bonuses in adverse terrain types, and which can be further specialized by the mountaineers branch specialism in the following two doctrines:

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Here you are making the choice to train your elite ranger companies in rough+hot or rough+winter terrain. I’ve added a Snow adjuster here (usable by mods, of course - although for performance reasons this does not extend to one adjuster per weather type I’m afraid) which means you can guarantee improved combat performance in your preferred terrain/weather type, and the support company now also exerts a division-wide buff to cold/hot acclimatization.

While I won’t go through each doctrine individually, we’re making use of the new battalion modifiers to adjust how you are incentivized to build divisions:

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Mountain artillery gives you a good reason to use artillery support in your mountaineer divisions, at the cost of a mutually exclusive choice with the following option:

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Balance subject to change, of course.

The final choice (and a choice which exists in each of the branch specialisms) is to decide between adopting your mountaineers as the core of your elite armed forces, or integrating them more widely:

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The new modifier ‘[Type] Special Forces Cap Contribution’ is a dynamic modifier that reduces the cap consumption of that special forces type, when counted against your cap. So, you’ll be able to support significantly more mountaineers, but not more paratroopers or marines.

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Here you’ll get bonuses that are more applicable to a wider array of circumstances. If you plan on unlocking and utilizing a second branch of special forces, this option might be more your cup of tea.

Marines

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The initial investment for the Marines branch will net you some similar small bonuses to special forces efficacy, a slight increase in naval invasion capacity (which can be acquired quite early), and you’ll unlock the Pioneers support company.

Pioneers are used here to represent marine-trained sappers and combat engineers, and will be an alternative to standard military engineers. They have increased offensive capability in notably hostile environments, and can be further specialized as shore parties or jungle climate specialists:

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The second mutually exclusive choice in the Marines tree is as below. If you want to go all-in on highly elite, more self-sufficient marines, you can go down the Marine Commando route. Marine commandos are a new line battalion that have the ability to perform quick hit & run naval invasions with an equally quick getaway plan - they no longer need to be at a port in order to exfiltrate. All battalions in a division must have this ability in order for it to function.

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Further down the tree you can capitalize on the hit & run playstyle:

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The alternative path will take you down a combined arms path, integrating more closely with other branches of your military:

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Paratroopers

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Elevating the paras will grant you tougher air transports, generally improved special forces, and the ability to field a small amount more paras.

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The first choice you will have to make is which paradrop effect you want to adopt. Aimed at disruption, the recon and sabotage doctrine will damage enemy constructions after a successful landing.

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Combat insertion is intended to augment well-planned general advances. If utilized carefully, this approach can put a hole in even the best fortified enemy frontline - however, the risk is high.

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It had to be done.


The mutually exclusive branches for paratroopers once again distinguish between a focus on paratrooper combat and support ability, or a wider combined-arms benefit:

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Make use of signals companies to coordinate a hasty defense after a drop.

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At the cost of increased training time, ensure that only the toughest recruits find their way to the paras.

Or choose to integrate the paras more traditionally into your armed forces:

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That’s all I have to show this time - as always, feedback on the details is encouraged; constructive criticism welcomed.

/Arheo
 
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1) You do realize that when you play with German, French, Russian, etc. localization it most likely will not say Mountaineers(Ranger)/Paratroopers/Marine but instead whatever the term is in that language? Actually, Paratroopers is already generic instead of Airborne. Not sure how you are going to change the unit type based on country of origin unless you are actually going to have different units for each country, which is not something you will get from Vanilla but instead from unecessarily bloated mods like Black Ice.
2) Technically speaking, in the US none of the 3 were considered Special Forces then, for the most part they aren't even now. The closest we would have during WWII would be parts of those forces or totally separate forces (i.e., the Rangers which weren't part of the single Mountain division).

So just to reiterate what I think you are saying it should be something along the lines of:
Land Special Forces instead of Mountaineers (Alpine Infantry would be more accurate for the time).
Naval Special Forces instead of Marines (Naval Infantry, Naval/Sea Landing Forces, or Amphibious Assault Infantry would be more accurate).
Air Special Forces instead of Paratroopers (Airborne, Air Landing, or Air Mobile were the 3 most common terms in English. Paratroopers were the individual soldiers not the units or doctrines).
That's exactly what I wrote above: a plain generic "land special forces", "navy special forces" and "air special forces" would be more convenient/neutral.

Then, what we see in the DD is that, within "land special forces", you can take some bonus in the direction of "ranger" or either "alpine infantry".
 
No. But when we are talking about the base game when played in "English" we should be using the English (North American English for this game) names for things, not the local version of the names for things. Using your logic, when playing in English I should be able to add Infantry to a division as the US, Strelkovaya as the USSR, Infanterie as Germany, etc. When it comes to military unit types it is recognized that Ranger ≈ Jaeger ≈ Spetznaz
You are wrong in your last statement. Ranger and Jaeger are light infantry of the Army. They are NOT special forces.

Spetznaz are special forces that belong to the GRU, Soviet/Russian military intelligence.
During WWII, their German counterpart was the Brandenburgers, that belonged to the Abwehr (German military intelligence)

In the USA special forces belog to the USSOCOM (or SOCOM). Rangers do not belong there.
 
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In the USA special forces belog to the USSOCOM (or SOCOM). Rangers do not belong there.
Correct, sorta. Rangers do not fall directly under USSOCOM, they do however fall under United States Army Special Operations Command (USASOC) which in turn falls under USSOCOM.
 
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No. But when we are talking about the base game when played in "English" we should be using the English (North American English for this game) names for things, not the local version of the names for things. Using your logic, when playing in English I should be able to add Infantry to a division as the US, Strelkovaya as the USSR, Infanterie as Germany, etc. When it comes to military unit types it is recognized that Ranger ≈ Jaeger ≈ Spetznaz
That, mate, sounds a wee bit like you're trying to bollock us. ;)

And for that argument, the developers are Swedish, so let's pick up on that. :cool:
 
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1) You do realize that when you play with German, French, Russian, etc. localization it most likely will not say Mountaineers(Ranger)/Paratroopers/Marine but instead whatever the term is in that language? Actually, Paratroopers is already generic instead of Airborne. Not sure how you are going to change the unit type based on country of origin unless you are actually going to have different units for each country, which is not something you will get from Vanilla but instead from unecessarily bloated mods like Black Ice.
2) Technically speaking, in the US none of the 3 were considered Special Forces then, for the most part they aren't even now. The closest we would have during WWII would be parts of those forces or totally separate forces (i.e., the Rangers which weren't part of the single Mountain division).

So just to reiterate what I think you are saying it should be something along the lines of:
Land Special Forces instead of Mountaineers (Alpine Infantry would be more accurate for the time).
Naval Special Forces instead of Marines (Naval Infantry, Naval/Sea Landing Forces, or Amphibious Assault Infantry would be more accurate).
Air Special Forces instead of Paratroopers (Airborne, Air Landing, or Air Mobile were the 3 most common terms in English. Paratroopers were the individual soldiers not the units or doctrines).
Uuuhm, no.

Airborne means 'is deployed from the air', so there is at least two (strictly speaking even three if considering the vessel used) types:
- Paratroopers, which very well considered themselves considered (and still do) themselves elite (even in the US), because it requires a special training to jump out of under normal circumstances completely intact airplane.
- Airmobile troops need a glider (that remains in the landing zone) or air transport (that lands in the deployment zone, then leaves). They normally do not need special training to do that. Glider forces in WW2 were initially looked down upon by the paras and did not get additional payment for air drops.
 
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Uuuhm, no.

Airborne means 'is deployed from the air', so there is at least two (strictly speaking even three if considering the vessel used) types:
- Paratroopers, which very well considered themselves considered (and still do) themselves elite (even in the US), because it requires a special training to jump out of under normal circumstances completely intact airplane.
- Airmobile troops need a glider (that remains in the landing zone) or air transport (that lands in the deployment zone, then leaves). They normally do not need special training to do that. Glider forces in WW2 were initially looked down upon by the paras and did not get additional payment for air drops.
Air transported troops who just sit as passengers in a transport plane are not special forces. If an infantry soldier boards a plane and gets a ride to another airport, he does not learn any special skills.

Only those airmobile troops that get special airborne training, inclucing jumping from a plane, have "earned their wings" to be called special forces. For example, in Germany 5 first Fallschirmjaeger Division got real paratrooper training and cold be considered special forces. The rest of the Fallschirmjaeger Divisions were infantry that belonged to the Luftwaffe, but without special training.
 
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Air transported troops who just sit as passengers in a transport plane are not special forces. If an infantry soldier boards a plane and gets a ride to another airport, he does not learn any special skills.

Only those airmobile troops that get special airborne training, inclucing jumping from a plane, have "earned their wings" to be called special forces. For example, in Germany 5 first Fallschirmjaeger Division got real paratrooper training and cold be considered special forces. The rest of the Fallschirmjaeger Divisions were infantry that belonged to the Luftwaffe, but without special training.
No land XP is acquired, but flying more and more generates air XP, especially if the flight was in enemy air space as should be the case for paratroopers, no?
 
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Air transported troops who just sit as passengers in a transport plane are not special forces. If an infantry soldier boards a plane and gets a ride to another airport, he does not learn any special skills.

Only those airmobile troops that get special airborne training, inclucing jumping from a plane, have "earned their wings" to be called special forces. For example, in Germany 5 first Fallschirmjaeger Division got real paratrooper training and cold be considered special forces. The rest of the Fallschirmjaeger Divisions were infantry that belonged to the Luftwaffe, but without special training.
So - explain British Glider Commandos for me please? Airmobile yes, but no parajump. YET, very elite when they captured the Bénouville bridge over the Orne in 44 (called Pegasus bridge or also Horsa bridge - after the glider itself).
The glider troops received a modified wing later in the war.

Edit: 22nd Airmobile Division - a German Infantry Division that was able to exit transport plains in the most quickest way initially and only partially was parajump capable (and lost the status several times) was still considered a sort of elite formation. In short they were an air assault unit at times.

Infantry units that belonged to the Luftwaffe due to overdrafting for this branch were called Luftwaffenfelddivisionen. They were always considered lower grade compared to regular Infantry units as they Infantry training and equipment was not up to par.
 
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So - explain British Glider Commandos for me please? Airmobile yes, but no parajump. YET, very elite when they captured the Bénouville bridge over the Orne in 44 (called Pegasus bridge or also Horsa bridge - after the glider itself).
The glider troops received a modified wing later in the war.

Edit: 22nd Airmobile Division - a German Infantry Division that was able to exit transport plains in the most quickest way initially and only partially was parajump capable (and lost the status several times) was still considered a sort of elite formation. In short they were an air assault unit at times.

Infantry units that belonged to the Luftwaffe due to overdrafting for this branch were called Luftwaffenfelddivisionen. They were always considered lower grade compared to regular Infantry units as they Infantry training and equipment was not up to par.
1. Commandos were special forces, airborne or not.
2. I have not read enough of 22. ID to make an exact judgement, but I would consider it elite infantry anyway.
3. I only talked about Fallschirmjaeger, not Luftwaffe Field Divisions. 1.-5. FJD got paratrooper training, 6.-11. FJD were paras only in theory, they did not receive special training.
 
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Really nice, those SF infantry models are superb! :D Will France, Italy, Japan, and other nations also receive new models for their SF?
True! I only noticed that Japan was absent and didn't notice the Italians and French not getting any, Marines for example. The Italians already have their mountaineers since BBA, but no marines.
 
Good point. What would you suggest?

What if Mountaineers were renamed to 'Light Infantry', within which is the Ranger branch and the Mountaineer branch? (Ranger just being a broad gameplay term for elite light infantry with specialised combat training, as based on the concept of Jagers and the US Rangers, while Mountaineer meaning specifically infantry trained for taking advantage of mountainous/hilly terrain and cold climates).

Light Infantry is the correct overall English name for the type of unit that encompasses all valid regiments that count as 'Mountaineers', including Jagers, Alpini, US Rangers, etc.
 
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I can't help it - to all people who think that specialization and unit size for different terrain is too complicated - again you don't have to do it.

Nevertheless, I highly appreciate the developers keeping the game interesting by not following a trodden path with a meta solution that beats the majority of scenarios. Please keep it up!

Then yet, for history buffs and for alternate historians alike, who want to try new things, I want to highlight this mod. There are mods and there are MODS.
This is not a reprimand to the developers, but shows instead what improvements can pull off to keep interest and motivation to play growing. Kudos!

As I have said, I am glad that the developers keep adding, as the (already good) game even gets better. It does not necessarily take a start from scratch with a new release of HOI, but the motivation and spirit to continuously improve a good idea.

The future is bright!
Have you played that mod yet? The responses are 15 pages and all this month. I have never heard of it before and am always looking for mods.
 
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Is it possible to add another historical name for the Soviet Airborne Forces units. Now, when choosing the historical name of the division, the divisions are called:
- Vozdushno-Desantnaya (Airborne)
- Gvardeyskaya Vozdushno-Desantnaya (Guard Airborne)

But there were five more Airborne brigades created in 1942, which received the designation: - maneuverable brigade, in transliteration:
- 1-ya Manevrennaya Brigada (1st Maneuvering Brigade)
- 2-ya Manevrennaya Brigada (2nd Maneuver Brigade)
- 3-ya Manevrennaya Brigada (3rd Maneuvering Brigade)
- 4-ya Manevrennaya Brigada (4th Maneuver Brigade)
- 5-ya Manevrennaya Brigada (5th Maneuver Brigade)
 
Have you played that mod yet? The responses are 15 pages and all this month. I have never heard of it before and am always looking for mods.
I have briefly touched it. Other mods offer modifications for other equipment too, but the difference in this mod is that for some equipment (recce vehicle for example) the modifications are visualized (as for the tanks).
 
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Developer Replies

C0RAX Replies

The white snow suit is specifically the British style, but most snow suits look the same.

One will be the default but you will be able to also use the alts, cold/hot weather uniforms are changed automatically from the base

I suggest you take a look at the small features #1 Dev diary here



Arheo's replies (Get ready for the chunky comment reply chain)

Sort of. The AI’s ability to perceive a high depth of risk is limited though (I shall preempt the inevitable by saying: this is a general challenge, not something unique to HOI), so it is likely to be a poor investment for them. In short, If they’re recruited, they’ll be used - but they are not recruited yet.



Fair point, but balance subject to change still.



‘Meta’ changes. And honestly, I don’t much consider it when designing - that ends up in a self reinforcing loop. MP will always have its own rules, and that’s ok.



not a bad idea. It’s the former currently, though.



You may see more paratroopers around, but they will not create drop orders. Note that having ‘line’ paras is also a valid path here.

This comes up a lot, so I’ll just say that it’s highly unlikely we ever do this. It’s a high investment task with the propensity to become unmanageable for non-veterans.



Some focuses have been changed to grant appropriate bonuses, but those granting units will remain as they are.



Yes.



Support company



Marine modifiers mostly(?) apply. Divisions have to be built quite specifically to make use of this, I didn’t want to create a need to change all your old marine templates to make use of the feature, and narratively it doesn’t make much sense anyway. This is special training for a special purpose.



No change here. I’m not overly fond of xp training and generation but changing this now would upset balance in several directions.



Only if you don’t own the expansion. The regular branch techs will persist though.



Most of that is subjective. They’ll benefit from using them, and part of designing in a sustainable way is to create new gameplay or narrative from existing habits. Most of these abilities were designed with that in mind. The AI benefits disproportionately from some techs like invasion capacity due to its ability to plan in breadth better than a human.

The exception is paradrops, still - see the answer above.Unless you're in terrain that's super useful for mountaineers, I can see the by far most used option in this is the one that allows mariners to withdraw.


Which is also fine imo.



Unlikely, but we’ll see. It’s simple enough to change.



Currently yes, but dlc ownership combinations make this awkward. We’ll see.
I strongly support the amtracs suggestion - that would make a battalion type that is currently very niche and therefore used little much more viable
 
Perhaps everything is a little late, but I propose to change the skin of the Marine of the Red Army.
The classic image of the Red Army Naval Infantry is not a Marine. This is the Naval Infantry. This is the crew of the ships from which the infantry unit was formed and which continued to wear the naval uniform. For this, the Naval Infantry were constantly criticized and forced to wear the usual infantry uniform in protective green / khaki, because the naval uniform was unmasking. And in 1944 they were officially dressed in infantry uniforms but still had distinctive clothes - a telnyashka and a naval peakless cap. This will allow the game to make the skin more correct, but still remain recognizable.

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Kreyser-Krasniy-Krim_1942_author-A_Sokolenko.jpg


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