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Developer Diary | Small Features #2

Greetings all,

We’re still well in the middle of Swedish vacation time, but our regular schedule is not entirely interrupted: today’s diary covers a few of the smaller features being added in AAT.


Special Forces Doctrines

For a while now we’ve wanted to give countries a way of specializing their special forces. Numerous militaries relied heavily on these elite troops, and some branches of what HOI4 terms ‘special forces’ really found their identity during and around the second world war.

I believe we’ve reached a good saturation point for equipment designers, and I wanted to tackle special forces in a manner that better befits strategic capability over detailed stat modification. The prolonged global conflict our game portrays led to significant doctrinal development when it comes to how militaries employed elite forces, and this seemed like a good place to start.

In AAT, a fourth doctrine page has been added:

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While any country can continue to make use of the Mountaineers, Marines and Paratroopers they are familiar with simply by researching the tech, doing so will unlock the ability to choose the corresponding special forces branch specialism.

These doctrines will also cost experience, however unlike the other military doctrines each branch here will use the corresponding experience type: Army XP for mountaineers, Naval XP for Marines, and Air XP for paratroopers.

The number of branch specialisms you can pick is limited however: initially to 1. Some nations earn the early ability to unlock a second (and final) branch specialism in their focus trees, but all nations that reach major status (this condition may be relaxed) will eventually earn the right to pick their second branch during the progress of the war.

Why not all 3? The [Insert Country Here] military used all three of these!

Well, partly for balance reasons, and partly because these specialisms don’t represent the ability to use paras, mountaineers or marines, but the adoption of their capabilities as part of a military’s core doctrinal philosophy.

We also wanted these doctrine choices to do more than give you stat bonuses - although of course these will be present. We wanted the choices you make here to a) change how you consider designing your divisions, and b) potentially change how you actively use your special forces on a strategic level.

Mountaineers

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Initially, elevating the mountaineers will grant you a mountaineer supply usage reduction (decimal bug noted!), and some general special forces combat bonuses. Importantly, you’ll also unlock the Rangers support company: a more combat oriented alternative to mounted recon, with higher organization, bonuses in adverse terrain types, and which can be further specialized by the mountaineers branch specialism in the following two doctrines:

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Here you are making the choice to train your elite ranger companies in rough+hot or rough+winter terrain. I’ve added a Snow adjuster here (usable by mods, of course - although for performance reasons this does not extend to one adjuster per weather type I’m afraid) which means you can guarantee improved combat performance in your preferred terrain/weather type, and the support company now also exerts a division-wide buff to cold/hot acclimatization.

While I won’t go through each doctrine individually, we’re making use of the new battalion modifiers to adjust how you are incentivized to build divisions:

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Mountain artillery gives you a good reason to use artillery support in your mountaineer divisions, at the cost of a mutually exclusive choice with the following option:

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Balance subject to change, of course.

The final choice (and a choice which exists in each of the branch specialisms) is to decide between adopting your mountaineers as the core of your elite armed forces, or integrating them more widely:

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The new modifier ‘[Type] Special Forces Cap Contribution’ is a dynamic modifier that reduces the cap consumption of that special forces type, when counted against your cap. So, you’ll be able to support significantly more mountaineers, but not more paratroopers or marines.

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Here you’ll get bonuses that are more applicable to a wider array of circumstances. If you plan on unlocking and utilizing a second branch of special forces, this option might be more your cup of tea.

Marines

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The initial investment for the Marines branch will net you some similar small bonuses to special forces efficacy, a slight increase in naval invasion capacity (which can be acquired quite early), and you’ll unlock the Pioneers support company.

Pioneers are used here to represent marine-trained sappers and combat engineers, and will be an alternative to standard military engineers. They have increased offensive capability in notably hostile environments, and can be further specialized as shore parties or jungle climate specialists:

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The second mutually exclusive choice in the Marines tree is as below. If you want to go all-in on highly elite, more self-sufficient marines, you can go down the Marine Commando route. Marine commandos are a new line battalion that have the ability to perform quick hit & run naval invasions with an equally quick getaway plan - they no longer need to be at a port in order to exfiltrate. All battalions in a division must have this ability in order for it to function.

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Further down the tree you can capitalize on the hit & run playstyle:

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The alternative path will take you down a combined arms path, integrating more closely with other branches of your military:

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Paratroopers

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Elevating the paras will grant you tougher air transports, generally improved special forces, and the ability to field a small amount more paras.

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The first choice you will have to make is which paradrop effect you want to adopt. Aimed at disruption, the recon and sabotage doctrine will damage enemy constructions after a successful landing.

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Combat insertion is intended to augment well-planned general advances. If utilized carefully, this approach can put a hole in even the best fortified enemy frontline - however, the risk is high.

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It had to be done.


The mutually exclusive branches for paratroopers once again distinguish between a focus on paratrooper combat and support ability, or a wider combined-arms benefit:

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Make use of signals companies to coordinate a hasty defense after a drop.

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At the cost of increased training time, ensure that only the toughest recruits find their way to the paras.

Or choose to integrate the paras more traditionally into your armed forces:

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That’s all I have to show this time - as always, feedback on the details is encouraged; constructive criticism welcomed.

/Arheo
 
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Who is shown in the image with white camouflage?
The white snow suit is specifically the British style, but most snow suits look the same.
What will determine the difference in the sprites?
I notice 3 different styles of US Marines, and 2 versions of the US paratroops
Or are these just mock ups?
One will be the default but you will be able to also use the alts, cold/hot weather uniforms are changed automatically from the base
@Arheo Hello, will you add decent auto-template for divisions and tech design? Just like the one in Stellaris. The current state of hoi4 designer is the reason why i stopped playing the game, its so uncomfortable for me as a casual player.
I suggest you take a look at the small features #1 Dev diary here



Arheo's replies (Get ready for the chunky comment reply chain)
A few questions :

1) Will AI be able to use those Raiding Commandos ?
Sort of. The AI’s ability to perceive a high depth of risk is limited though (I shall preempt the inevitable by saying: this is a general challenge, not something unique to HOI), so it is likely to be a poor investment for them. In short, If they’re recruited, they’ll be used - but they are not recruited yet.

2) About Breakthough vs Defense for Mountaineers : sadly, I don't believe it will be a real choice. If AAT doesn't change the game engine on this, currently Defense affect **both** breakthough and defense, while breakthrough affect only...breakthrough. So 10% flat defense will be way better than a 15% breakthrough modifier via artillery...

Fair point, but balance subject to change still.

3) Will paradrop mechanic change ? Like a rebalance, or updated defines ? Because there won't be any incentive to build large Airborne divisions, and I fear the 2 Width (10 Width in Mp with rules) meta will remain, because of how bad paradropping divisions are with all their debuffs

‘Meta’ changes. And honestly, I don’t much consider it when designing - that ends up in a self reinforcing loop. MP will always have its own rules, and that’s ok.

4) Will the Shore bombardment bonus remain capped at 25%, or will those 15% bonuses bring the limit to 40 ? Indeed, it's pretty easy to achieve 25%, and there is no need to look after such bonuses once your fleet is sufficient for achieving the 25% cap.

not a bad idea. It’s the former currently, though.

Does this mean the AI will attempt to diversify their special forces and attempt to use paratroopers?

You may see more paratroopers around, but they will not create drop orders. Note that having ‘line’ paras is also a valid path here.

This comes up a lot, so I’ll just say that it’s highly unlikely we ever do this. It’s a high investment task with the propensity to become unmanageable for non-veterans.

Just wondering how will focuses that spawn elite units (e.g. Force Z, Maori Battalion) be affected by this change will they grant special boosts for tech or still just deploy a infantry unit that has elite training?

Some focuses have been changed to grant appropriate bonuses, but those granting units will remain as they are.

Also last thing Paras are infamously hard to get working due to a lot of issues ranging from lack of clear information being dispensed by the game and some persistent bugs. Was any work put into trying to improve the system and make it easier to use and more consistent in its results?

Yes.

Airborne light armour, is that going to be a support company addition? Or a full on battalion? Like could I make a division of nothing but airborne light tanks?

Support company

Why not just unlock and give the ability to Marines with Naval Commandos instead of making an entirely different unit? And do stat modifiers for regular Marines also apply for Marine Commandos?

Marine modifiers mostly(?) apply. Divisions have to be built quite specifically to make use of this, I didn’t want to create a need to change all your old marine templates to make use of the feature, and narratively it doesn’t make much sense anyway. This is special training for a special purpose.

When we train special troops will we get military experience or will paratroopers give air experience and marines will give sea experience?

No change here. I’m not overly fond of xp training and generation but changing this now would upset balance in several directions.

Will the old special forces techs remain in place too?

Only if you don’t own the expansion. The regular branch techs will persist though.

So will the AI be able to utilize these new features? Or will they fall short of using it all in a truly challenging sense against the player?

Most of that is subjective. They’ll benefit from using them, and part of designing in a sustainable way is to create new gameplay or narrative from existing habits. Most of these abilities were designed with that in mind. The AI benefits disproportionately from some techs like invasion capacity due to its ability to plan in breadth better than a human.

The exception is paradrops, still - see the answer above.Unless you're in terrain that's super useful for mountaineers, I can see the by far most used option in this is the one that allows mariners to withdraw.
This dev diary seems to think it will be used for "hit and run" tactics.

It might, but the most useful thing is that you'll be able to do naval invasions where you can pull out the valuable troops if they don't capture a port

Which is also fine imo.

Could the Marine Comandos also enable the exfil feature for amtracs? It would make a lot of sense for amtracs to be able to drive onto shore from the water and also back into the water from the shore

Unlikely, but we’ll see. It’s simple enough to change.

Will there be bonuses for amphibious mechanized battalions in marines branch?

Currently yes, but dlc ownership combinations make this awkward. We’ll see.
 
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>Small features

>Introduces an entire new doctrine tab



Good to see the special forces getting some much needed love
 
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OMG, I can't wait to try that. Choices and specialization are great. And those 3D models... Can I join the beta program? :D
 
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A few questions :

1) Will AI be able to use those Raiding Commandos ?

2) About Breakthough vs Defense for Mountaineers : sadly, I don't believe it will be a real choice. If AAT doesn't change the game engine on this, currently Defense affect **both** breakthough and defense, while breakthrough affect only...breakthrough. So 10% flat defense will be way better than a 15% breakthrough modifier via artillery...

3) Will paradrop mechanic change ? Like a rebalance, or updated defines ? Because there won't be any incentive to build large Airborne divisions, and I fear the 2 Width (10 Width in Mp with rules) meta will remain, because of how bad paradropping divisions are with all their debuffs

4) Will the Shore bombardment bonus remain capped at 25%, or will those 15% bonuses bring the limit to 40 ? Indeed, it's pretty easy to achieve 25%, and there is no need to look after such bonuses once your fleet is sufficient for achieving the 25% cap.

The changes are great, I love those new mechanics, especially paradrop org reductions and commando marines.
 
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Looks really great! I'm really interested to see how this affects the AI's naval invasions and other behavior. One real question:

Does this mean the AI will attempt to diversify their special forces and attempt to use paratroopers?
 
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So beautiful changes to sf, finally these special forces will feel like special forces and not just like restricted normal battalions. I just hope they will add something for Soviets too, they are going to have it pretty hard bcs Finland will now join war together with Germany.
 
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Just wondering how will focuses that spawn elite units (e.g. Force Z, Maori Battalion) be affected by this change will they grant special boosts for tech or still just deploy a infantry unit that has elite training?
 
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A very nice DD and a very nice feature to add into the game. But I do have to ask some questions:

It seems that currently the only requirement to start these special forces doctrines is to research a mountaineer/para/marine tech. This combined with the fact that these doctrines do give some rather nice bonuses to the army as a whole might lead to people researching one of the special forces tech just to unlock the doctrine but not actually field any special forces? Perhaps to make sure this isn't just a easy way to sink some xp into to quickly boost your army capabilities pursuing the doctrine would require one to field a certain amount of the special forces the doctrine is about? This could be measured either by requiring a certain % of the SF cap be used or by specifying a set number of battalions so that larger armies aren't penalised too much? Either way it be nice to prevent these doctrines being used for say just picking up pioneers and adding them to every division to breach the classic river line in Russia or something like that.

Both Paras and Marines will now be able to have a special effect whenever they "land" in a state. Will this require the state to be captured or will it just happen when they land in any province? And will there be any scaling of that effect based on size of the para/marine division? Im afraid if there are not enough safeties then we will see 1 battalion paras/marines being dropped everywhere on suicide missions to incur those penalties. No one could afford to protect every single province within a state so it would be very easy to land on a opening or on a random behind the lines province with a cheap 2w just to incur those penalties. It would be a extremely annoying to deal with and pretty much impossible to defend against. I already can see someone as Germany making 100 2w Paras and dropping them into every single Russian state to temporarily shutdown much of their economy as even a slight damage means that a factory stops working until it is fully repaired. If there are no safeguards against this yet I hope they will be implemented before the update the chaos this would cause would be disastrous though mostly for MP.

Nice to see new special forces models! The fact special forces have different models is so rarely shown it seems quite a lot of people don't know or forget about it. I have once tried experimenting with modding the special forces technologies by adding in the infantry equipment tech and to my amazement it actually made the 3D preview show special forces models instead of the generic ones. Nevertheless it wasn't a viable way of allowing one to preview the unique models since it required making infantry equipment unlockable via the SF techs. Perhaps if you have the time you could try and change the way either the inf eq 3D viewer or the SF techs work so that we could also see the SF models in there? I know one can use the division designer to view all models available at a given moment so it might not be much of a priority but I think adding a option to preview new SF models in the tech tree wouldn't take too much time and be a nice little addition especially now that we are getting new models.

Also last thing Paras are infamously hard to get working due to a lot of issues ranging from lack of clear information being dispensed by the game and some persistent bugs. Was any work put into trying to improve the system and make it easier to use and more consistent in its results?
 
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Why not just unlock and give the ability to Marines with Naval Commandos instead of making an entirely different unit? And do stat modifiers for regular Marines also apply for Marine Commandos?
 
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These Unit models look amazing, but I see only the major powers are getting them. Will minors and other countries with no focus trees get any generic SF models?
 
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Cool! Now we can have units like Merill's Marauders.
 
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Looks really great! I'm really interested to see how this affects the AI's naval invasions and other behavior. One real question:

Does this mean the AI will attempt to diversify their special forces and attempt to use paratroopers?
Honestly, in my opinion, the only way to make AI use paratroopers correctly, would be to make it drop trash divisions on defenses when attempting a serious naval invasion...

other than this, the use of paratroopers requires a lot of conditions, and calculating proper use cases for them would affect performances for no real gameplay gain...Given how "bad" the AI currently is (because of how hard it is to do a good AI for such a complex game, especially with limited calculation ressources) it would maybe even make the AI worse, because the ROI would probably not be positive...

Option two, which I already did as a modder, is to script the paradrops. They would occur in very special cases, like Norway Invasion with germany, or Crete.
 
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