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Developer Diary | Peace Conference Roundup

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Hello all!
I join you to once again talk about peace conferences. This time we have more info on our changes and features that I was not able to go into last time. Most of these are coming as part of By Blood Alone.

Previously I talked about mostly the structure of the new Peace Conference system. If you have not read that Dev Diary, I recommend checking that out first. The short version is that we are reworking the old peace system into a new one that features simultaneous and blind turns, all conferences actions being contestable, and limited points to use in the conference.

Before we cover new stuff I also want to address some changes to the jargon we introduced last time. We considered changing “demands” to “bids” to fit with the new system. The previous dev diary talked at length about bids. We are instead now referring to all of these as “demands.”

Now for some new stuff! Firstly, I would like to show off our nearly complete UI with a comparison to the old UI.​

Nearly Finished PC UI
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Old PC UI
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[Edit: This old shot from the HoI wiki contains modded material. We're leaving it in since it was quoted, but please be aware.]
In the new system we have expanded the “Demands” portion to the entire left of the UI while moving all relevant information about victors or beneficiary nations to the right. Part of this was to make the menu more presentable, but another part of this was to handle what is now a more complex system of demands.

As part of By Blood Alone, we are adding five new types of demands to the peace conference. Four of these are a new type of “Additional Demand” which I will go into shortly. The other new demand is “Take Navy.” This will allow participants in the conference to use their participation points to demand enemy capitol ships as they would a single state. This means that players requesting the same ship will result in a contested claim. When the conference finishes, screen ships will be divided up amongst those who claimed capital ships based upon the ratio of capital ship industrial cost claimed. We attempted to find solutions to allow more precise claiming of non-capital ships, but were unable to arrive at a satisfactory interaction flow or a good way to fit it into the larger peace conference system.
Naval Demands being issued for the mighty Scharnhorst
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As mentioned previously, we now have “Additional Demands” These options all require an underlying demand of puppet or change government to have been applied to a state first. Secondary demands can be applied over the top of a normal demand during the same turn or any subsequent turn.

The first secondary demand we have is “Demilitirized Zone.” this prevents the target nation from placing troops in the selected state. This is a pretty classic part of many historical peace conferences and serves as a way of keeping troops off of borders.

DMZ option
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The next two secondary demands are both economic. These are “Resource Rights” and “War Reparations.” To make resolving contested demands fit into our system, both of these demands target single states. Resource Rights gives access to the resources in a state. War Reparations gives control of local civilian factories in a state. Both of these last for a period of time the length of which is still TBD.

Resource Rights and War Reparations options
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Our final new demand, coming with BBA, is “Dismantle Military Industry.” This will remove military factories from the targeted state. This can be used to tear down a heavily militarized state’s mic and help slow down re-militarization postwar.

Dismantle Military Option
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That’s all we have for today and I thank you for stopping by. Next week, we will be talking about modding. Stay tuned! o7​
 

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fighting_falcon93

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Yeah, I already re-read it twice before your reply. Although I suspect that there's some misunderstanding here. They also mention stuff like increased cost only when someone else contests the state and that points are refunded for contested demands. In the case you're in a peace conference alone there's no one to contest the states you pick. And if contested demands eventually cause territories to be returned to the defeated nations then that's yet another reason to continue boycotting the faction system and play solo in single player games.

I also wonder what it's that you respectfully disagree with in my previous post? From a purely logical perspective, it makes no sense that I'm alone in a peace conference and yet there is territority that I can't annex. These nations have agreed to an unconditional surrender, what do you want them to do?
 
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man0lo

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'Offer Peace' however has been updated somewhat, and will now allow the sender to offer a conditional surrender based on the current warscore against them. The AI has weights to accept this, but are unlikely to do so if they realistically have any chance of continued success. This will create a peace conference between the parties, with only a certain % of points being distributed (based on warscore).
This is somekind of what I was looking for. So now the winning side can ask for a white peace as well. I appreciate a lot your response.
 
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Wombat69

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Is it still necessary if I was at war with the Axis to subdue all of them, or will there be separate peace conferences for individual countries? This would have an impact on when I can demand concessions.
In my opinion, it does not make much sense to beat all of them, then make concessions, and then the game is over, because I have no more enemies.
 

Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Bobby, and the extra info Arheo :) The peace conference rework sounds brilliant, and my favourite feature is, without doubt, being able to claim ships - much excitement! While a bit rough and ready, I very much appreciate that screen ships are difficult to deal with, and the solution proposed sounds like a good way of getting a generally reasonable distribution, while avoding a lot of tedious micro.

There are numerous possible naval pics for this one, but I'm going to go with Novorossiysk (ex-Guilio Cesare, of the Regia Marina) for a couple of reasons. First, and most obviously, because she was transferred to the USSR as part of the peace deals, but also because the USSR had originally wanted one of the Littorio class, but Britain and the USA threw their weight around and made sure those ships were allocated to them, as they weren't terribly keen on the USSR having a Littorio.

1660869601019.png
 
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$ilent_$trider

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Yeah, I already re-read it twice before your reply. Although I suspect that there's some misunderstanding here. They also mention stuff like increased cost only when someone else contests the state and that points are refunded for contested demands. In the case you're in a peace conference alone there's no one to contest the states you pick. And if contested demands eventually cause territories to be returned to the defeated nations then that's yet another reason to continue boycotting the faction system and play solo in single player games.

I also wonder what it's that you respectfully disagree with in my previous post? From a purely logical perspective, it makes no sense that I'm alone in a peace conference and yet there is territority that I can't annex. These nations have agreed to an unconditional surrender, what do you want them to do?
I mean, for one, I do agree there should be conditional surrender.
Secondly, I don’t think that even if Hitler got an unconditional surrender from the British, he would have bothered in conquering the islands.
He would probably make sure to put someone friendly to Germany and basically puppet them like he did with Vichy France. Heck, even his control of the Atlantic France and Paris was more for while he kept fighting the British.
Finally, while I understand that we just need to make the major powers of a faction to surrender the entire faction. While I could see Germany taking British, Belgium and French African colonies, I definitely disagree he would have physically taken Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada (reparations though? Absolutely)
 
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fighting_falcon93

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Secondly, I don’t think that even if Hitler got an unconditional surrender from the British, he would have bothered in conquering the islands.
He would probably make sure to put someone friendly to Germany and basically puppet them like he did with Vichy France. Heck, even his control of the Atlantic France and Paris was more for while he kept fighting the British.
Finally, while I understand that we just need to make the major powers of a faction to surrender the entire faction. While I could see Germany taking British, Belgium and French African colonies, I definitely disagree he would have physically taken Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Canada (reparations though? Absolutely)

I don't know what he would've actually annexed, but I think it's important to design the game from a logical perspective rather than just copying what happened historically. Considering how we can make our own decisions in game, combined with all of the alternate history paths in the focus trees, I'd say that this game is more of a strategical sandbox than an exact replica of what happened in history. With that in mind, we need game mechanics that allow us to take our own decisions, and not that ties our hands just because that decision was not made historically.
 

$ilent_$trider

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How come Vichy French always gets created if conquered?
I mean, for all the talks about not wanting historical railroads, the aftermath of WW2 saw more countries existing than at the start of it.
WW1 had the total defeat of the Germans and they didn’t get annexed (nor Austria). So annexation should only be easily possible, IMO, against a county that you have a conquer CB.
Since Germany’s CB is against Poland, they shouldn’t be able to conquer the UK and France.
 
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Nameless_Ensign

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The length and content of the game simply is not set up to make this sort of narrative work as a widely available option. If you build a game for this many years with the one, presiding assumption being 'a total, world war', everything begins to break if you suddenly change that core pillar.
...but this entire secondary objectives system is based around that? There's quite literally no reason for DMZs or seizing resources once the 'big war' is done.

You don't need to puppet, you can force a change of government (say, from fascist to democratic) and then ask for reparations and DMZ.
Considering factions are largely ideologically based, changing their government would put them under a potential faction member and thus an ally. You're just crippling your potential friends for no reason.
 
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Red Mapoleon

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First of all, great work. I love this game and I really appreciate these Dev diaries. One thing for Peace conferences is that you need to give more impact to having control of the surrendering country land. If we look at history, I doubt the USSR would of returned or relinquished control of Poland just because the US demanded it. They controlled the country and therefore, having boots on the ground took precedence over other demands. There should be a veto to override other countries demand to annex or control a vanquished territory when you have physical control of the land in question. Other countries can make demands but having control should give your demand precedence over other countries demands.
 
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fighting_falcon93

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How come Vichy French always gets created if conquered?

No idea what you're referring to here. In my playthroughs I always get the option to establish Vichy France or not. I usually choose not to and then I get to control all of their mainland territority.

Since Germany’s CB is against Poland, they shouldn’t be able to conquer the UK and France.

But this is where your reasoning falls apart. You want to build a system on totally gamey rules that makes no sense in reality. If Germany invades France and occupy all mainland states they are already conquered! What do you actually want them to do if Germany demands to keep their territority?

Same goes for Britain. I could agree with you if we had a conditional surrender where Germany has not yet invaded Britain. Then of course Britain would have more power in negotiating demands.
 
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BFKelleher

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Will it be possible to mod in new additional demands?

Are there plans for furthering demobilization demands such as changing the economy law to civilian law and reducing conscription to disarmed nation?
 
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$ilent_$trider

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No idea what you're referring to here. In my playthroughs I always get the option to establish Vichy France or not. I usually choose not to and then I get to control all of their mainland territority.



But this is where your reasoning falls apart. You want to build a system on totally gamey rules that makes no sense in reality. If Germany invades France and occupy all mainland states they are already conquered! What do you actually want them to do if Germany demands to keep their territority?

Same goes for Britain. I could agree with you if we had a conditional surrender where Germany has not yet invaded Britain. Then of course Britain would have more power in negotiating demands.
And even then, Hitler only kept a ZoC for the Atlantic France and Paris, where nominally, the Vichy Government had authority but couldn't send troops while German troops were allowed. It's been a while I checked this because I leave the game right after peace conferences, but I guess even after you surrender a whole faction and conquer their states you still have to keep garrisoning troops, right?
I see the value in, say, playing as Germany, to force France and the UK to give me control of their resources for however many years and their industrial capacity if I don't need to keep garrisoning troops there bleeding manpower and equipment (and getting only a percentage of the factories anyway) if I get more equipment and men to throw at the soviets later.
 

xtfoster

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DMZ does prevent any military builds - forts, static AA, airfields and I suspect radar though I've yet to test that myself.
I can guarantee it forbids Forts. Just load a game as Germany and try to build Forts opposite the Maginot. You can do it in the 4 provinces you control, but not the 4 in the Rhineland.

Can't remember off the top of my head if AA, Airfields, RADAR or MIls are prohibited (they used to be but it might have changed since I checked last).
 
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Mister Analyst

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I can guarantee it forbids Forts. Just load a game as Germany and try to build Forts opposite the Maginot. You can do it in the 4 provinces you control, but not the 4 in the Rhineland.

Can't remember off the top of my head if AA, Airfields, RADAR or MIls are prohibited (they used to be but it might have changed since I checked last).
Just tested 1936 Germany regarding builds in DMZ states Rhineland and Moselland. Base game (no DLC) and used console to unlock all research.

Here are the results:
  • Cannot build
    • Land fort (when selected, provinces are colored transparent red)
    • Static anti-air (when selected, provinces are colored transparent red)
    • Coastal fort (when selected, provinces are colored transparent red even though there is no coast available)
    • Naval dockyard (when selected, provinces are colored transparent red even though there is no coast available)
    • Supply hub (when selected, provinces are not colored transparent red; hovering over DMZ provinces shows the tooltip "Cannot build Supply Hub in the demilitarized zone")
  • Able to build
    • Infrastructure
    • Air base
    • Radar
    • Military factory
    • Civilian factory
    • Synthetic refinery
    • Fuel silo
    • Rocket site
    • Nuclear reactor
    • Railway
Here is a screenshot showing buildings that can be constructed in the German DMZ:
DMZ Germany Builds.png
 
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DukofDeth

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I can guarantee it forbids Forts. Just load a game as Germany and try to build Forts opposite the Maginot. You can do it in the 4 provinces you control, but not the 4 in the Rhineland.

Can't remember off the top of my head if AA, Airfields, RADAR or MIls are prohibited (they used to be but it might have changed since I checked last).
It was radar I was not sure about. Any military build is forbidden. You can build civs [MILs too I think; I usually don't set those up right away]
 
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