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Developer Diary | Peace Conference Roundup

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Hello all!
I join you to once again talk about peace conferences. This time we have more info on our changes and features that I was not able to go into last time. Most of these are coming as part of By Blood Alone.

Previously I talked about mostly the structure of the new Peace Conference system. If you have not read that Dev Diary, I recommend checking that out first. The short version is that we are reworking the old peace system into a new one that features simultaneous and blind turns, all conferences actions being contestable, and limited points to use in the conference.

Before we cover new stuff I also want to address some changes to the jargon we introduced last time. We considered changing “demands” to “bids” to fit with the new system. The previous dev diary talked at length about bids. We are instead now referring to all of these as “demands.”

Now for some new stuff! Firstly, I would like to show off our nearly complete UI with a comparison to the old UI.​

Nearly Finished PC UI
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Old PC UI
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[Edit: This old shot from the HoI wiki contains modded material. We're leaving it in since it was quoted, but please be aware.]
In the new system we have expanded the “Demands” portion to the entire left of the UI while moving all relevant information about victors or beneficiary nations to the right. Part of this was to make the menu more presentable, but another part of this was to handle what is now a more complex system of demands.

As part of By Blood Alone, we are adding five new types of demands to the peace conference. Four of these are a new type of “Additional Demand” which I will go into shortly. The other new demand is “Take Navy.” This will allow participants in the conference to use their participation points to demand enemy capitol ships as they would a single state. This means that players requesting the same ship will result in a contested claim. When the conference finishes, screen ships will be divided up amongst those who claimed capital ships based upon the ratio of capital ship industrial cost claimed. We attempted to find solutions to allow more precise claiming of non-capital ships, but were unable to arrive at a satisfactory interaction flow or a good way to fit it into the larger peace conference system.
Naval Demands being issued for the mighty Scharnhorst
image3.png

As mentioned previously, we now have “Additional Demands” These options all require an underlying demand of puppet or change government to have been applied to a state first. Secondary demands can be applied over the top of a normal demand during the same turn or any subsequent turn.

The first secondary demand we have is “Demilitirized Zone.” this prevents the target nation from placing troops in the selected state. This is a pretty classic part of many historical peace conferences and serves as a way of keeping troops off of borders.

DMZ option
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The next two secondary demands are both economic. These are “Resource Rights” and “War Reparations.” To make resolving contested demands fit into our system, both of these demands target single states. Resource Rights gives access to the resources in a state. War Reparations gives control of local civilian factories in a state. Both of these last for a period of time the length of which is still TBD.

Resource Rights and War Reparations options
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Our final new demand, coming with BBA, is “Dismantle Military Industry.” This will remove military factories from the targeted state. This can be used to tear down a heavily militarized state’s mic and help slow down re-militarization postwar.

Dismantle Military Option
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That’s all we have for today and I thank you for stopping by. Next week, we will be talking about modding. Stay tuned! o7​
 

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I agree that a lot of this content seems geared for a post-war world.
I think it's now fair to speculate that this might actually not be the last major DLC and that instead that might end up being a pack that takes the game into the early years of the Cold War. Pushing the end date to 1953 or 1955 for example.
 
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Interesting that Paradox is taking a political stand on Israel-Palestine by changing the territory name to "Filistin" (Palestine's name for it state) rather than "Palestine" (what the British called it) BTW, it should be "Al Filistin" - it takes Al in Arabic, just like Jordan
That screenshot of the Raj seems to be 6 years old, and not of vanilla:

That's a 6-year-old screenshot found on the wiki. And possibly from a mod.
 
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Arheo

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Is there gonna be any change in terms of White Peace?? ... in order to terminate a war without needing to coerce the enemy capitulate.For example as Italy to instantly stop the nonsense war against Ethiopia.

Just to be entirely open about this: we will not be introducing any form of demanding a conditional surrender. The length and content of the game simply is not set up to make this sort of narrative work as a widely available option. If you build a game for this many years with the one, presiding assumption being 'a total, world war', everything begins to break if you suddenly change that core pillar. It fits better in a more open game such as EU or CK, and for the instances where we require it, we tend to use script to match the expected narrative. In short: it just doesn't fit.

'Offer Peace' however has been updated somewhat, and will now allow the sender to offer a conditional surrender based on the current warscore against them. The AI has weights to accept this, but are unlikely to do so if they realistically have any chance of continued success. This will create a peace conference between the parties, with only a certain % of points being distributed (based on warscore).
 
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Just to be entirely open about this: we will not be introducing any form of demanding a conditional surrender. The length and content of the game simply is not set up to make this sort of narrative work as a widely available option. If you build a game for this many years with the one, presiding assumption being 'a total, world war', everything begins to break if you suddenly change the core fantasy. It fits better in a more open game such as EU or CK, and for the instances where we require it, we tend to use script to match the expected narrative. In short: it just doesn't fit.

'Offer Peace' however has been updated somewhat, and will now allow the sender to offer a conditional surrender based on the current warscore against them. The AI has weights to accept this, but are unlikely to do so if they realistically have any chance of continued success. This will create a peace conference between the parties, with only a certain % of points being distributed (based on warscore).

I mean, could you have a system, for example, where the losing side sat at the table for their own peace conference?

So for a simple example, Austria-Hungary declares on Romania, no other combatants. Romania goes for peace before full capitulation and you get a peace conference with Romania and Austria-Hungary dividing up Romania between the bits Romania keeps and the bits it cedes? (With the cost for Romania to keep non-occupied bits being lower for Romania and Higher for Austria-Hungary and visa versa)?

Having a more generic "limited war" system, either via mid-war peace system like this or else via declaring at the start for a limited war in some way, would fix some of the gaps at the moment I think?
 
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I miss mentions about fortificaations.

Demilitarization should also prevent the building of fortifications there (maybe it does).

And "Dismantle Military Industry" - there should also be a "Dismantle Fortifications"
DMZ does prevent any military builds - forts, static AA, airfields and I suspect radar though I've yet to test that myself.

Personally I'd rather just have a moritorium on repairing forts - including automatic repair. Nothing like some new "historic ruins" to tour to boost tourism!
 
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Arheo

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I mean, could you have a system, for example, where the losing side sat at the table for their own peace conference?

So for a simple example, Austria-Hungary declares on Romania, no other combatants. Romania goes for peace before full capitulation and you get a peace conference with Romania and Austria-Hungary dividing up Romania between the bits Romania keeps and the bits it cedes? (With the cost for Romania to keep non-occupied bits being lower for Romania and Higher for Austria-Hungary and visa versa)?

Having a more generic "limited war" system, either via mid-war peace system like this or else via declaring at the start for a limited war in some way, would fix some of the gaps at the moment I think?

Limited war in that sense is more realistic than a peace offer ala EU4, but while I understand that it seems related to peace conferences, it would be a major-feature level change to an entirely different system - not something we'll be looking at for BBA.
 
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I am a bit unsure about the currently proposed system for handling screen vessels, it sounds like it has a lot of very problematic edge cases. If they're spread between those who claimed the capital ship, how does that work if the loser had only screen ships or submarines ? Do they become unclaimable ? Also, smaller navies may have very few capital ship but a massive screen/sub fleet in comparison, which would make claiming one of their few capital ships much more attractive since it would litterally come with vessels by the dozens.

Not that I have a good solution for the problem, since claiming individually every screen ship would be a nightmare against big navies... Maybe by class / template ? (and multiple claims on the same class makes its vessels split as evenly as can be between claimants ? Tho this comes with a number of problems too...)


Other than that, amazing work, the new options to disarm/weaken a losing nations are gonna be very interesting to use~
 
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If you ever did implement it I'd recommend that an aggressor be made to declare whether the war was limited or not at the beginning and if so there would be less WT as a result; in such declared limited wars the defender could opt to concede immediately to deny the aggressor a chance to try whittling them down for a bigger kill. If the aggressor changed their war aims from limited to total conquest later in a declared limited-war it should have a much heavier WT penalty than if they had simply declared their goal to be full conquest from the onset.

One reason for toying with limited wars would be to try to stave off a full global war - not avoid it entirely but to just hold off the onset till one was better prepared.
 
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Are most of these helpful to Hoi4? The game is set up for one major war, fighting a second after is both usually broken and has no reason for you to wait more than a year to start.
 
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@Arheo So, it's definitely possible for, say, German to defeat France and UK early on and not be able to take all their lands, right? So the player could then decide to grab some war reparations and resource control as those would be cheaper?
In that case, how long is the peace? Could UK and France start another war in, say, 5 years, if Germany is still fighting the Soviet Union?

Edit: Also, shouldn't asking for war reparations lead to a reduction of WT?
War reparations, demilitarized zones, disarmaments are the ones I believe should lead to a reduction of WT
 

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"One major war" benefits the Allies most though all the majors have a distinct advantage during a total war scenario. Minors always had to rush before WT spiked or pray the AI did something incredibly stupid [which is happening less and less with each major update] so allowing for wars with limited aims could allow some early opportunities to minors to expand without dragging everybody else into the fray.
 
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Limited war in that sense is more realistic than a peace offer ala EU4, but while I understand that it seems related to peace conferences, it would be a major-feature level change to an entirely different system - not something we'll be looking at for BBA.

Yeah fair - I can see how tacking on new features at this stage would be opening up risk for a bunch of new bugs, not to mention the other work needed to implement.


(Sorry, I read your original post as "we will not be adding [any kind of condition surrender / limited wars] ever" rather than "we will not be adding [any kind of condition surrender / limited wars] in this expansion", so was mainly thinking about it in an 'in the future, this'd be cool' sense, rather than a 'BBA should have this' sense)
 

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'Offer Peace' however has been updated somewhat, and will now allow the sender to offer a conditional surrender based on the current warscore against them. The AI has weights to accept this, but are unlikely to do so if they realistically have any chance of continued success. This will create a peace conference between the parties, with only a certain % of points being distributed (based on warscore).
YES!

Also, I find it hilarious that the Italy Update includes an overhaul to the peace deals, considering they famously got screwed by one.
 
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The Russian Empire

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I'm pleased you finally got around to fixing one of the most glaring issues this game has had since its launch.
 

gianlucad

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Any plans to introduce a pre-surrender conference system between competing powers?
The fate of Europe was mostly decided way before Germany surrendered. Why does HoI4 represent the end of WW2 more as a Congress of Vienna than anything else?
 
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MrMcQue

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As long as Free France/Vichy France (Occitania) has been fixed along with 3 Germanies existing (with Mr. Mustache-man in either the Sudets or Vienna) and the need of Italy to invest in prime Scottish real-estate, i'd be happy.
 
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gianlucad

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Additionally, any plans for the player to be able to use points to PREVENT another nation from taking a certain action?
Say you want a neutral nation between two countries (which would require you to prevent anyone from puppeting/annexing the entire target region), would this at all be possible?
 

DeadHeat16

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Just to be entirely open about this: we will not be introducing any form of demanding a conditional surrender. The length and content of the game simply is not set up to make this sort of narrative work as a widely available option. If you build a game for this many years with the one, presiding assumption being 'a total, world war', everything begins to break if you suddenly change that core pillar. It fits better in a more open game such as EU or CK, and for the instances where we require it, we tend to use script to match the expected narrative. In short: it just doesn't fit.

'Offer Peace' however has been updated somewhat, and will now allow the sender to offer a conditional surrender based on the current warscore against them. The AI has weights to accept this, but are unlikely to do so if they realistically have any chance of continued success. This will create a peace conference between the parties, with only a certain % of points being distributed (based on warscore).
I feel like my idea from the first peace conference dd could still work in this restricted system you described.
2. The "offer peace" action is basically useless as you can only offer peace if you're losing, and even then you still can't do it sometimes. I suggest you should be able to offer peace if your winning and occupy the state(s) you justified/have a wargoal on. That way you can just peace out if you have what you need and not have to take out the whole nation for a small piece of land, and it gives a reason to justify on specific states instead of just picking a random state. Also you should be able to manually justify for puppet and topple government wargoals and not just conquer war goals.
I’m not asking it to be added right this minute, just to be considered.
 
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