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Developer Corner | International Market

Hello there, it's me C0rax back for another dev corner, and some of you may have noticed in our last dev corner I mentioned in the MIO goals we wanted to have MIO’s “Provide a framework for national specialisms that can be used on the world stage” well I'm here to show you that stage and introduce international markets.

This is all super WIP, you are going to see WIP mock ups, and some details are still being finalized!

Feature Intent & goals

  • Introducing a place for nations to buy and sell equipment benefiting both nations with a reward. Creating a new way for countries to contribute specialist equipment to other nations
  • Be able to source equipment from other nations as needed
  • For majors to set the global standard for common place equipment leveraging their superior economic might.
The international market acts as a one stop shop for all your equipment needs from other countries. It's intended to be an international store front, with multiple sellers being able to sell the same thing from the same store front. This means that provided you have the appropriate market access, you can go into the international market and buy tanks from the USA and planes from germany in one interface (but not 1 buy order).


The Flow

So to start us on how to get to the market. Well we will be replacing the diplomacy menu with the market UI, the diplomacy window was one of the least used parts of the UI and so we want to replace it with something that will get more use. The diplomacy menu is now accessed from within the market menu at the bottom of the market window, you can also still right click on a country on the map to open diplomacy with them directly.
IM_01.png

From here we can start buying equipment or selling equipment by clicking on the respective button. Beyond that any currently active contract with other countries will be displayed here so you can easily see their current status.

The buy and sell modes look like this
image20.png

IM_02.png

As you can see we don't currently have access to anyones market, so let's look at how we can fix that.


Market access

For market access we need to go to the diplomacy menu for a country where we will find the negotiate market access diplo action, this is what we want in order to send a request. For nations with factions or puppets this market access is given implicitly. This is important since in many cases you don't want those pesky enemies seeing or trying to buy all the amazing equipment you are selling. This is especially important to stop them seeing your latest equipment stats and MIO modifiers. With this only the people you want to see and buy your wares are able to.
IM_03.png

So now we’ve got market access and we can start buying and selling equipment. Since we have access to a market the buy screen will now show the equipment they have put up for sale.

Buying
IM_04.png

Let's buy some rifles. To do this we click on the rifles equipment from here we choose how many rifles we want and how fast we want to pay for them and thus receive them. The price per rifle is decided by an IC to CiC conversion rate. This gives you all the information you need like total cost, convoys needed and how long it will take to pay/deliver all equipment
IM_05.png

We send of our request and the seller has agreed to the contract
IM_06.png

The contract will now appear in our market window as an ongoing contract, it will show all the information you need to know about each contract you have ongoing.
IM_07.png

Selling

Now let's look at how we sell our equipment on the market. To start off we need to add equipment to the market. We do this by first clicking sell equipment and then clicking the add to market buttons. From here we can add our equipment from the stockpile to the market. We can choose here how many of every variant we have we wish to put up for sale.
IM_08.png

So now we have put up some equipment on the market and it appears in the list. The list shows all of our equipment on the market but not currently sold on the market.
IM_09.png

Right on time we got a request to buy some of our equipment, this menu will show you what they are buying, how fast they are paying and how many the resultant deliveries there will be. We will accept this request.
IM_10.png

We have accepted the purchase request and now we can see the selling entry in our master list of contracts along with all the information around that contract.
IM_11.png

So that brings us to the end of our quick journey through the international market and we brushed over a lot of details so that what the next part will focus on.


Technical Details

Market Access

Market access is a Diplo action to request access to a market and to offer access to your market thus it is a Bilateral relationship. Faction members share market access, as do puppets and overlords.​

Market access blockers
  • Market access and Contracts are canceled between enemies in war.
  • Embargoing someone will cancel market access, and all selling/buying contracts with that country.
  • Capitulation cancels all contracts and if the country is NOT going into exile, it will lose all market access too.
  • Civil war will change nothing. The original country will have original market accesses and contracts after the start of the civil war.
  • Making a country puppet will cancel all market access and contracts of that country.
  • Losing market access to a country will not cancel an ongoing contract with that country.
  • Puppets can have market access to other countries (and not just to the overlord's market) and trade with them. (this might be based on puppet level)
  • There will be a scriptable limit on equipment trade for things like US neutrality act etc

Contracts

Purchasing equipment costs CiC. We use a conversion ratio to convert IC value to CiC value. A contract has 2 main variables, CiC cost from equipment and Civ factory allocation for payment

So with this information we can talk about how a contract is structured
IM_12.png

A contract is broken down into payments every 30 days. So every 30 days you will make a payment and receive equipment. The amount of equipment to be delivered is based on the payment rate of the buyer. So the more Civ’s you assign to a contract the more equipment you can receive per delivery.

Selling​

We have a new stockpile called the market stockpile, equipment can be moved from the normal stockpile to the market stockpile. Equipment in the market stockpile can be requested for purchase by any nation we share market access with.

Payment​

So payment is handled via a new construction entry for contracts. When you start a contract a new entry will be created in the construction menu for the number of factories you agreed to pay with and for the total CiC of the contract.this construction task has priority over normal construction.

Contract storage​

CiC payment and equipment before being delivered is stored in a “Contract storage”. At the end of the month the minimum payment/delivery is transferred to each country from the Contract storage. CiC is delivered to the bank while equipment is delivered to the equipment stockpile

The bank​

The bank is a special container for CiC you receive from other countries as payment for a contract it is used in construction by providing bonus CiC to your construction entries.

Here is a flow chart to show you how a contract payment works and then how the bank CiC is used in construction.
IM_13.png

Cancelation:​

Either side can request to cancel the contract at any time no more deliveries are made and all payment to the Contract storage is returned to their originator.

Things that are no part of this feature:
  • Trading Ships
  • Money
  • supply/demand pricing

Things that we are looking into:
  • Limited cost of equipment changes (some active choices, some passive)

MIO addendum​

Last dev corner I spoke about MIO’s, I did my best to explain and answer questions but I want to add an addendum to the previous dev corner to show some things that should hopefully make some things much clearer.

It seems there was some confusion that MIO’s were a totally free form “design your own company” system, this isn’t what was intended to be conveyed. MIO’s have pre predetermined choices which are designed to offer compromise and strategic choice. So Let's talk about what an MIO looks like in terms of a real MIO I get access to for a country.

I’m going to show some numbers here but these are just starting values for initial implementation and so don't read into the modifiers or values too much yet.

So here we have a Generic Infantry MIO
IM_14.png

So the definition for this MIO is

Design teams (red arrows show mutually exclusive)

  • INFANTRY OFFENSE DEPARTMENT
    IM_15.png


  • INFANTRY QUALITY DEPARTMENT
    IM_16.png


  • SUPPORT EQUIPMENT DEPARTMENT
    IM_17.png
INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURERS
IM_18.png

As you can see this focuses almost exclusively on improving infantry equipment with small bonuses for support equipment. Generic MIO’s are generally focused on one specific equipment providing departments that are generally focused around offensive, defensive and quality/reliability.

Here's some more example of generics
IM_19.png

IM_20.png

Generics can sometimes also have specializations for specific stats that are not normally in the equipment specific ones also such as the aircraft range focuses MIO.
IM_21.png


Or pacific fleet MIO
IM_22.png

Of course these are generics and that is why they are very simple. They are there to replace the current generic designer set already present so every nation can enjoy some level of customisation for their mio’s. More major countries might have specific MIO’s that are unique to your country and thus offer very different choices to make. These are just some simple ones but they can be much more branched choices with lots of content tie-ins, but we will show those in a later dev diary.
IM_23.png

IM_24.png


I hope this makes what an MIO looks like as a structure you play with clearer and again I hope to see you in future dev corners.

That's all I have for this week, as always please ask questions and comment. I hope to see you in 2 weeks for the next Dev corner where Arheo will introduce you to another feature coming to you in the future
 

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I vaguely recall Podcat saying years ago that a hypothetical Nordic DLC would need some mechanics that let neutral nations (namely Sweden) affect the war through their industry. I wonder if this could be it...
 
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Can't believe I've spent the past 2 months updating my International Arms Market mod only to wake up this morning and see Paradox decided to incorporate a better version of it in the game. Very happy to see it, paradox will do a much better job than my decisions-based mod will ever do.

I wonder if paradox knew about my mod and got inspired from it? That would certainly be cool.
 
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Lend lease will have to be rebalanced for this, as currently you can get thousands of guns just from lend lease
Why?

This feature is for situations when you can't get suitable Lend-Lease. E.g. if you're Brazil in 1937, nobody will want to Lend-Lease tanks to you. If you want to have an ahistorical war, that's annoying. But maybe Germany will sell you some tanks because they want the CIC.

But if you *can* get Lend-Lease from your friends, then obviously that's better. I don't see why that would need to be rebalanced at all?
 
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as stated in thing we are not doing section, no warship sale via this market due to the non conformal ways ships work
Could you expand on why this is? The Portugal and Bulgaria ship purchases seem like a good template as a way to buy ships.

Almost all minor nations did not build their own warships but instead had them built in a major power. Would be cool if this was represented in game
 
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But then it wouldn't be targeted to a specific country-- there's no guarantee that the correct country would attempt to purchase that order.
Yes, my intent on this suggestion is to point out that, with just a little more tweaking to the market system, lend-leasing can be built into it. I'm not saying it should be exactly as simple as making a free sell order. But imagine the market system implementing three settings, each with their own trade rules of course:

1. Global market
2. Faction market
3. Private sales

The private sales would function as lend-lease if the sale is free. "Hey Romania, I see you're running low on guns. Here's a free sell order (aka, a lend-lease offer) for 3,000 guns."

By all means, add the buttons and vocab to make it obvious that it's a lend-lease. The point is, this market system is a function to exchange equipment. Lend-lease is a function to exchange equipment. As such, in this early stage in development, I think this is an excellent opportunity to improve on the lend-lease system with this new market mechanic.
 
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Why?

This feature is for situations when you can't get suitable Lend-Lease. E.g. if you're Brazil in 1937, nobody will want to Lend-Lease tanks to you. If you want to have an ahistorical war, that's annoying. But maybe Germany will sell you some tanks because they want the CIC.

But if you *can* get Lend-Lease from your friends, then obviously that's better. I don't see why that would need to be rebalanced at all?
You can make a fake deficit and the ai will lend lease you anyway
 
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Oh my.
What comes to my mind if I read this is only the cheese and exploit possibilities and AI being beyond stupid handling this…

„produce a ton of useless shi* that the AI for some reason thinks is valueable (armored cars?) and swim in CIVs…“
 
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Reserved for Developer Replies

C0RAX said: unlikely we are trying to keep this separate from resource trade.
-----


C0RAX said: in the long run yes, we are trying to get as many converted over for the release but if we miss any we can tackle them in future war efforts.
----


C0RAX said: as stated in thing we are not doing section, no warship sale via this market due to the non conformal ways ships work
----


C0RAX said: final balance is still a way off so I cant comment on this
----


C0RAX said: the former, you receive the CiC from the bank at 50% the rate of your normal construction CiC on the construction task. its not that you lose 50% of the CiC when you use it.
----


C0RAX said: we are looking into lend lease balance with this but we will probably make lend lease a bit stricter especially in peace time, and we are looking into price adjustments but more on that in a future DD.

currently no limits to requests but you can refuse purchase requests if you don't want to actually send that country the specific equipment they request
----
Wait, what, a 'reserved for dev replies' post that actually gets used?
 
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Could you expand on why this is? The Portugal and Bulgaria ship purchases seem like a good template as a way to buy ships.

Almost all minor nations did not build their own warships but instead had them built in a major power. Would be cool if this was represented in game
It was in my original design but the more I and the coders looked into the requirements in both code and design wise, the more clear it was it would become basically its own separate but parallel system. ships are just not handled/coded the same way other equipment is.
 
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Looks like an awesome feature is taking shape! ::)

Will the market feature keep a running history record for the player to track what equipment was sold, the quantity sold, and to which country it was sold?

Will a player be able to sell individual parts such as basic light tank chassis, automatic cannon, basic small airframe, etc?
 
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Yes, my intent on this suggestion is to point out that, with just a little more tweaking to the market system, lend-leasing can be built into it. I'm not saying it should be exactly as simple as making a free sell order. But imagine the market system implementing three settings, each with their own trade rules of course:

1. Global market
2. Faction market
3. Private sales

The private sales would function as lend-lease if the sale is free. "Hey Romania, I see you're running low on guns. Here's a free sell order (aka, a lend-lease offer) for 3,000 guns."

By all means, add the buttons and vocab to make it obvious that it's a lend-lease. The point is, this market system is a function to exchange equipment. Lend-lease is a function to exchange equipment. As such, in this early stage in development, I think this is an excellent opportunity to improve on the lend-lease system with this new market mechanic.
This was in my original design but it was actually not as simple as you think, we had hoped we could merge the 2 but it was not to be. its the nature of adding a system to a game that's been out for just under 7 years there so many assumptions made prior that makes trivial things sometimes be very complicated to do without rewriting the entire thing you are trying to merge with. in fact we already had to refactor some pretty hefty chunks of code to make the market function already.
 
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C0RAX

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This new feature looks very interesting. Thanks for sharing it with us while it's still a work-in-progress.

Now that there's this huge new marketplace for arms trading, will the recent trend of many nations leaving their mils idle in the mid-to-late game be reconsidered?
I'm in my design actually to make those mils get used on the market to make things of "value" but more on that if/when its in the game
 
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Looks like an awesome feature is taking shape! ::)

Will the market feature keep a running history record for the player to track what equipment was sold, the quantity sold, and to which country it was sold?

Will a player be able to sell individual parts such as basic light tank chassis, automatic cannon, basic small airframe, etc?
Its on the wish list so maybe we will get history but don't hold your breath.
and no only equipment you can make and store in the stockpile.
 
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Hello there, it's me C0rax back for another dev corner, and some of you may have noticed in our last dev corner I mentioned in the MIO goals we wanted to have MIO’s “Provide a framework for national specialisms that can be used on the world stage” well I'm here to show you that stage and introduce international markets.

This is all super WIP, you are going to see WIP mock ups, and some details are still being finalized!

Feature Intent & goals

  • Introducing a place for nations to buy and sell equipment benefiting both nations with a reward. Creating a new way for countries to contribute specialist equipment to other nations
  • Be able to source equipment from other nations as needed
  • For majors to set the global standard for common place equipment leveraging their superior economic might.
The international market acts as a one stop shop for all your equipment needs from other countries. It's intended to be an international store front, with multiple sellers being able to sell the same thing from the same store front. This means that provided you have the appropriate market access, you can go into the international market and buy tanks from the USA and planes from germany in one interface (but not 1 buy order).


The Flow

So to start us on how to get to the market. Well we will be replacing the diplomacy menu with the market UI, the diplomacy window was one of the least used parts of the UI and so we want to replace it with something that will get more use. The diplomacy menu is now accessed from within the market menu at the bottom of the market window, you can also still right click on a country on the map to open diplomacy with them directly.

From here we can start buying equipment or selling equipment by clicking on the respective button. Beyond that any currently active contract with other countries will be displayed here so you can easily see their current status.

The buy and sell modes look like this

As you can see we don't currently have access to anyones market, so let's look at how we can fix that.


Market access

For market access we need to go to the diplomacy menu for a country where we will find the negotiate market access diplo action, this is what we want in order to send a request. For nations with factions or puppets this market access is given implicitly. This is important since in many cases you don't want those pesky enemies seeing or trying to buy all the amazing equipment you are selling. This is especially important to stop them seeing your latest equipment stats and MIO modifiers. With this only the people you want to see and buy your wares are able to.

So now we’ve got market access and we can start buying and selling equipment. Since we have access to a market the buy screen will now show the equipment they have put up for sale.

Buying

Let's buy some rifles. To do this we click on the rifles equipment from here we choose how many rifles we want and how fast we want to pay for them and thus receive them. The price per rifle is decided by an IC to CiC conversion rate. This gives you all the information you need like total cost, convoys needed and how long it will take to pay/deliver all equipment

We send of our request and the seller has agreed to the contract

The contract will now appear in our market window as an ongoing contract, it will show all the information you need to know about each contract you have ongoing.

Selling

Now let's look at how we sell our equipment on the market. To start off we need to add equipment to the market. We do this by first clicking sell equipment and then clicking the add to market buttons. From here we can add our equipment from the stockpile to the market. We can choose here how many of every variant we have we wish to put up for sale.

So now we have put up some equipment on the market and it appears in the list. The list shows all of our equipment on the market but not currently sold on the market.

Right on time we got a request to buy some of our equipment, this menu will show you what they are buying, how fast they are paying and how many the resultant deliveries there will be. We will accept this request.

We have accepted the purchase request and now we can see the selling entry in our master list of contracts along with all the information around that contract.

So that brings us to the end of our quick journey through the international market and we brushed over a lot of details so that what the next part will focus on.


Technical Details

Market Access

Market access is a Diplo action to request access to a market and to offer access to your market thus it is a Bilateral relationship. Faction members share market access, as do puppets and overlords.​

Market access blockers
  • Market access and Contracts are canceled between enemies in war.
  • Embargoing someone will cancel market access, and all selling/buying contracts with that country.
  • Capitulation cancels all contracts and if the country is NOT going into exile, it will lose all market access too.
  • Civil war will change nothing. The original country will have original market accesses and contracts after the start of the civil war.
  • Making a country puppet will cancel all market access and contracts of that country.
  • Losing market access to a country will not cancel an ongoing contract with that country.
  • Puppets can have market access to other countries (and not just to the overlord's market) and trade with them. (this might be based on puppet level)
  • There will be a scriptable limit on equipment trade for things like US neutrality act etc

Contracts

Purchasing equipment costs CiC. We use a conversion ratio to convert IC value to CiC value. A contract has 2 main variables, CiC cost from equipment and Civ factory allocation for payment

So with this information we can talk about how a contract is structured

A contract is broken down into payments every 30 days. So every 30 days you will make a payment and receive equipment. The amount of equipment to be delivered is based on the payment rate of the buyer. So the more Civ’s you assign to a contract the more equipment you can receive per delivery.

Selling​

We have a new stockpile called the market stockpile, equipment can be moved from the normal stockpile to the market stockpile. Equipment in the market stockpile can be requested for purchase by any nation we share market access with.

Payment​

So payment is handled via a new construction entry for contracts. When you start a contract a new entry will be created in the construction menu for the number of factories you agreed to pay with and for the total CiC of the contract.this construction task has priority over normal construction.

Contract storage​

CiC payment and equipment before being delivered is stored in a “Contract storage”. At the end of the month the minimum payment/delivery is transferred to each country from the Contract storage. CiC is delivered to the bank while equipment is delivered to the equipment stockpile

The bank​

The bank is a special container for CiC you receive from other countries as payment for a contract it is used in construction by providing bonus CiC to your construction entries.

Here is a flow chart to show you how a contract payment works and then how the bank CiC is used in construction.

Cancelation:​

Either side can request to cancel the contract at any time no more deliveries are made and all payment to the Contract storage is returned to their originator.

Things that are no part of this feature:
  • Trading Ships
  • Money
  • supply/demand pricing

Things that we are looking into:
  • Limited cost of equipment changes (some active choices, some passive)

MIO addendum​

Last dev corner I spoke about MIO’s, I did my best to explain and answer questions but I want to add an addendum to the previous dev corner to show some things that should hopefully make some things much clearer.

It seems there was some confusion that MIO’s were a totally free form “design your own company” system, this isn’t what was intended to be conveyed. MIO’s have pre predetermined choices which are designed to offer compromise and strategic choice. So Let's talk about what an MIO looks like in terms of a real MIO I get access to for a country.

I’m going to show some numbers here but these are just starting values for initial implementation and so don't read into the modifiers or values too much yet.

So here we have a Generic Infantry MIO

So the definition for this MIO is

Design teams (red arrows show mutually exclusive)

INDUSTRIAL MANUFACTURERS

As you can see this focuses almost exclusively on improving infantry equipment with small bonuses for support equipment. Generic MIO’s are generally focused on one specific equipment providing departments that are generally focused around offensive, defensive and quality/reliability.

Here's some more example of generics

Generics can sometimes also have specializations for specific stats that are not normally in the equipment specific ones also such as the aircraft range focuses MIO.
View attachment 979822

Or pacific fleet MIO

Of course these are generics and that is why they are very simple. They are there to replace the current generic designer set already present so every nation can enjoy some level of customisation for their mio’s. More major countries might have specific MIO’s that are unique to your country and thus offer very different choices to make. These are just some simple ones but they can be much more branched choices with lots of content tie-ins, but we will show those in a later dev diary.
View attachment 979824
View attachment 979825

I hope this makes what an MIO looks like as a structure you play with clearer and again I hope to see you in future dev corners.

That's all I have for this week, as always please ask questions and comment. I hope to see you in 2 weeks for the next Dev corner where Arheo will introduce you to another feature coming to you in the future
Thank you for these updates, even if it's all still very early in development it's still nice to see that things are moving behind the scenes and the general direction they're moving in. I'm also loving the theme of this military-industrial complex update!

With regards to the international market, and at the risk of crossing over into victoria/line goes up territory, has any consideration been given to allowing countries to put requests for equipment into the market, so that producers can see what kind of demand is out there for various products and adjust their production accordingly?
 
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