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Dev Diary #99 - Ground Combat & Army Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's dev diary is about some changes coming to ground combat and armies in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. This will be the last dev diary before we take a break for the holidays, so there will be no diaries in the next week or the week after that. Stellaris dev diaries return on Thursday January 11th, 2018.

Defense Armies and Fortresses
Constructing Defense Armies have always been largely a meaningless exercise in Stellaris. While they are useful for reducing Unrest and occasionally might be able to beat off an unprepared attacker, the fact that a planet is capped on how many armies can be defending it while the attacker is *not* capped on how many armies are attacking, coupled with the general weakness of defense armies, means that defending a planet against a ground invasion is generally an exercise in futility and will at most delay an attacker by a few weeks. However, if we solved this by just making defense armies a lot stronger or capping the number of attacking units, the result would turn every invasion of a backwater colony into a big affair - something that is not particularly desirable when a war can involve several different actors with hundreds of planets between them.

For this reason, we have decided to rework Defense Armies into something that is actually useful, but requires a significant investment of resources to muster more than a token defense. Instead of being directly buildable by the empire, defense armies are created from certain buildings. The capital building will produce defense armies depending on its level, as will some other planetary uniques like Military Academy. If you want a planet to be well defended, however, you will need to construct Fortress building on its tiles. Fortresses require a pop to work them, do not produce any other resources than a small amount of Unity, but provide a significant amount of defense armies to protect the planet. Armies spawned by Fortresses are also impervious to orbital bombardment, and will not be able to be killed without first ruining the building itself. The armies generated by a building have their species and type set by the pop working it, so a Very Strong Battle Thrall will produce several powerful defense armies if placed on a Fortress, and special pops like Droids will produce their own variants like Robotic Defense Armies rather than the normal ones. Fortified worlds will also be able to be fit with an FTL inhibitor (the exact way they get them is not yet determined) that prevents enemy fleets from leaving the system unless the world is captured, which allows for the creation of Fortress Worlds to protect strategically important systems.
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(Building icon is a placeholder)

One more important change related to Defense Armies is a change to Unrest: Armies on planets no longer reduce Unrest directly. Instead, to handle a planet with high Unrest, you will need to construct Fortress-style buildings or take other measures (such as using Edicts) to reduce the planetary Unrest. This means you cannot simply capture a planet and then spam a dozen defense armies to immediately zero out the Unrest. As part of this, we will be balancing certain events and effect to ensure newly captured worlds do not instantly defect back to their former owner.

Finally, as part of all these changes Defense Armies have received a general buff and there are several new technologies that unlock additional tiers of forts and various improvements to Defense Armies' combat ability, meaning that they will grow stronger alongside the invention of new, more powerful assault armies.

Assault Army Management
A major aim of our changes to armies is to reduce the amount of unnecessary micromanagement of armies. For this reason, and to make Assault Armies' role more explicit, we have decided to change Assault Armies to always be based in space. Whenever not directly engaged in an invasion, Assault Armies will now always automatically embark onto their transports, ready to be used to invade another world. We also aim to fix the minor but immersion-breaking bug where transport fleets are giving endlessly increasing sequential names whenever they land and embark again.

Combat Width, Retreating and Collateral Damage
Another change to ground combat is the introduction of new mechanics in the form of Combat Width. Combat Width is determined by the size of the planet, and decides how many armies can be taking and receiving damage at the same time: For example, if 20 assault armies invade a world held by 10 defense armies with a combat width of 10, all 10 defense armies will be immediately engaged in battle while only half the assault armies will be able to deal and receive damage, with additional assault armies joining the fray as the armies in front of them are destroyed. This means that it is no longer possible to take a well defended world without losses by simply throwing a hundred clone armies at it: If you wish to minimize losses (and thus War Exhaustion), you will need to invest in expensive, high-maintenance elite armies.
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(Interface not final)

We've also added the concept of Collateral Damage: As armies fight on the planet, civilians and civilian infrastructure is caught in the fighting. Each time an army deals damage in battle, it will inflict a random amount of Collateral Damage, which increases Planetary Damage similar to Orbital Bombardment (see below) and can lead to the death of Pops and the destruction of buildings and tiles. Some armies will deal more Collateral Damage than others: For example, Xenomorph armies are highly destructive and cost-efficient, but will wreak immense havoc on the planet, potentially leaving it in ruins in the process of capturing it for your empire.

While working on combat mechanics we also took the time to change the way Morale Damage works, making it something that is suffered by both sides (instead of just the loser) and making the effects of it more gradual, so that armies suffer a drop in combat efficiency once they are <50% morale, and then another, sharper drop when they are broken (0% morale). This should make certain armies, such as Psi Armies, highly effective against low-morale opponents like Slave Armies, but less effective against an unfeeling army of Droids. Finally, we've also tweaked the damage-dealing algorithm so that damage is less evenly spread among combatants, making it so that even an outnumbered force can destroy regiments and inflict war exhaustion on the enemy.
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Finally, we have made some changes to retreats. When an attacker retreats from a ground combat, there is now a significant chance that each retreating regiment is destroyed while attempting to return to space, making retreat a risky endeavour and eliminating the tactic of simply send in the same army again and again in wave attacks, instead making retreats something you do in order to preserve at least some of your army in a poorly chosen engagement.

Orbital Bombardment Changes
Finally, again in the interest of reducing the micromanagement needed during war, we've changed the way orbital bombardment works. Fortifications have been entirely cut from planets, so that there is no need to bombard lightly defended worlds before going in with the ground troops. Instead, we have added a requirement that planets cannot be invaded if there is a hostile Starbase in the system, so that transports cannot snipe worlds that are protected by defensive installations present in the same system. Orbital Bombardment, instead of being something you have to manage and wait for in every single planetary engagement, is now something you do to soften up a particularly well defended target, or simply to wreak havoc on the enemy's planet and drive up their War Exhaustion.

As a planet is bombarded, the fleet will deal Planetary Damage, ruining buildings and killing Pops. Bombarding fleets will also do damage to armies present on the planet (unless those armies are protected by a Fortress), and over a long enough time can decimate a defending force, though doing so will likely cause heavy damage to the planet and may delay the attacker long enough that the owner of the planet has time to build up their forces or inflict enough war exhaustion to force a peace. The rate at which the planet is damaged can also be slowed with the construction of buildings such as Planetary Defense Shield, further dragging out the process.

As part of these changes, we've consolidated the Bombardment Stances into the following:
  • Selective: Deals normal damage to armies/buildings and light damage to pops. Cannot kill the last 10 pops.
  • Indiscriminate: Deals heavy damage to armies, buildings and pops. Cannot kill the last 5 pops.
  • Armageddon: Deals massive damage to armies, buildings and pops. Can turn planets into depopulated Tomb Worlds with enough bombardment. Only available to certain empires such as Purifiers.

Attachments
Finally, on the topic of attachments, we have decided to cut them entirely from the game. We discussed a variety of ways to improve the way you assign them, but ultimately decided that we already have so many types of armies and not nearly enough combat mechanics to justify a significant investment of UI time that could go towards something like the Fleet Manager instead. The technologies that previously unlocked attachments will be changed to give other effects, such as direct buffs to certain army types.

That's all for today! As I said, we're now going on hiatus, so I'll see you again on January 11th with a dev diary about... well, that's a secret, actually. You'll just have to wait and see!
 
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How did you arrive at that? As far as I know, all he said was that they won't reduce unrest. And they will be vulnerable to orbital bombardment, unlike defensive armies from a fortress.

I guess the "very vulnerable to bombardment" because 9 times out of 10, you bombard before you invade.
 
This question is not intended to pull wind from your sales at this great chance; but I was curious so i'l ask!

Was there any consideration to removing the fleet transport ships entirely and replacing them with module on ships? (like and Aux module)
 
^it isnt the same tho :,c
 
I kinda wish land battles in stellaris were like sea battles in HoI4
different speeds and ranges and you could watch them run at each other
fortifications that dont move at all but maybe have long range
maybe you could have guerilla/resistence units that do basically no damage but constantly try to be just out of range so the battle drags on and ties up invading troops longer

give them something other than just damage and health stats to do stuff with
Yes, there's a huge disconnect, incongruence, disunity, comparing beautiful space battles to 1990's game style army icons
Everything else in the rest of the game is an other galaxy away in beauty, immersion and engagement
 
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Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but have you considered adding terrain modifiers to the battles? For example, invading a jungle planet is going to be a bit like attacking into a forest in EU4. Invading a desert planet, if you are an arctic species would also incur some harsh penalties. But perhaps with the right tech, you can train your troops, or even provide armor that negates these issues. (e.g. heat seeking vision, thermal suits, dna editing)
 
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but have you considered adding terrain modifiers to the battles? For example, invading a jungle planet is going to be a bit like attacking into a forest in EU4. Invading a desert planet, if you are an arctic species would also incur some harsh penalties. But perhaps with the right tech, you can train your troops, or even provide armor that negates these issues. (e.g. heat seeking vision, thermal suits, dna editing)
At a planetary scale and specifically with a focus on, y'know, taking strategic targets and not just wandering through the open wilderness, I don't see the point.
 
I really hope they go through with this and soon....Cannot wait for fortress worlds and hardened defense buildings, there is no way in hell that an advanced spacefaring races planet is just walked over by invading aliens, the partisans alone would make life for any invading Alien force a freaking nightmare, not to mention professional millitary assests with terrain knowledge advantages.

In reality invading a country in modern times in the real world takes a 10-1 advantage in either knowledge or tech just to win, and a considerable occupation investment to keep it.

It would be great if they could add factions and nationalism to this somehow. For example if an egalitarian race attacks maybe some of the sympathetic pops jon their effort every nation has traitors. Also factor nationalism into changing pops who do not follow national ethics to instantly switching ethics to the party line.

Also fanatical defenders would be fun maybe a couple of pops spring up every now and then with insane attack and terrible defense.

That being said, attackers should have ways to win with investment, and maybe late game super weapons that destroy defenders and pops and change the world class to irradiated or toxic....even with said weapons some pops should be able to adapt occasionally...life is stubborn.

Cant wait to see the first version of this.
 
It would still be nice to have a way to customize your armies and specialize them for certain roles. Like Shock-Focused armies with an early attack bonus, but a defense penalty, or a attrition army with low attack but high defense, or a gimmick army taking advantage of things like the techs, policies, and government you have. There would be a small cost and a time switch to represent the reequip and retrain the armies.

Yes indeed. It would indeed. be really nice if the DEV Team could give "everyone" "everything" that they want in the Game. Sadly, that is not a realistic goal, never will be a realistic goal, but it would surely be a great thing.

Maybe some day, some DEV will give "everyone" what they want. I just hope we all live long enough to see that game when it hits Steam/Shelf. ;)
 
i am happy about removing the retreat. it was a bit lame tbh. as actually, getting off a planet should be an expensive business. its a lot more expensive than landing on it at least...

what about treebeard now. i don't know if that has been answered, but titans (as in titanic beasts) were always such a nice defense / offense unit. do i understand it right, that with this system, i cannot keep my assault armies / titans / ... as defense units anymore?

also there were some nice mods that added aerial defense (which kinda is unused) or stuff like mech lances - i kinda whish the overhaul would give enough playroom for mods to make the whole ground based combat a bit more flexible / nuanced. i for one welcome making it less work by removing the painfully manual labor of selecting army upgrades, but i do kinda miss a bit depth in this
what about adding mini-risk on the tiles themselves one day.
 
i don't know if that has been answered, but titans (as in titanic beasts) were always such a nice defense / offense unit. do i understand it right, that with this system, i cannot keep my assault armies / titans / ... as defense units anymore?

Per Wiz's twitter, it's been changed so assault armies can defend, but are less than optimal for the job. I assume the idea is that you use them to hold captured planets in a war, at most, rather than lining them up for regular defense duty.

https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/948157558874927104
 
At a planetary scale and specifically with a focus on, y'know, taking strategic targets and not just wandering through the open wilderness, I don't see the point.

Well, except for the planetary scale part, that's what we said about Vietnam.

Don't underestimate guerrilla warfare and deep entrenchment. The Axis couldn't capture Gibraltar because the Brits essentially built their base inside stone. And while we captured Iwo Jima, the same can be said for that location as well. While we took the mountain in just a few days, it took weeks to secure the rest of the island. Heck, there were even a few Japanese holdouts that lasted well into 1949. Capturing all major cities doesn't end the capture of a nation, or a world IMO. If the enemy armies have hidden bases deep in the wilderness of a dark jungle, they can keep using those bases to utilize hit and run missions on the attacking armies, weakening them, while they can just run back and resupply.

To remedy this, one would either need better invasion tech, or change the orbital bombardment policy.

I suppose an alternative to making battles more complex in this manner is to simply dump it into the unrest system, but it ought to put a major drain on defensive armies. Especially if the defensive population has some sort of 'bushido' civic.
 
Well, except for the planetary scale part, that's what we said about Vietnam.

Don't underestimate guerrilla warfare and deep entrenchment. The Axis couldn't capture Gibraltar because the Brits essentially built their base inside stone. And while we captured Iwo Jima, the same can be said for that location as well. While we took the mountain in just a few days, it took weeks to secure the rest of the island. Heck, there were even a few Japanese holdouts that lasted well into 1949. Capturing all major cities doesn't end the capture of a nation, or a world IMO. If the enemy armies have hidden bases deep in the wilderness of a dark jungle, they can keep using those bases to utilize hit and run missions on the attacking armies, weakening them, while they can just run back and resupply.

I've always just went with the assumption that the unrest that escalates into open revolt on a newly captured world to include any hidden remaining military elements. Capturing every city and production center with your assualt armies *does* make you the de facto owner of the planet. A bunch of holdouts running around the woods are only an issue if you let them convince the rest of the planet to join them.
 
Hello there dear sir, for so long i wanted to ask you something, i currently have a group of stellaris players right now who are eagerly waiting for cherry update, and we were talking one day and i suggested an idea for a great mod, it was about making our ruler actual army generals like in EU4, or admirals of our fleets, and the group loved the idea of ruler generals or admirals (or one suggested being a ruler scientist even), i've searched so long for a mod that does that but alas i couldn't find any, and now this cheery update changes seem sooooo cool, can't to wait embrace the new galaxy in new stellaris, but could you take this idea into consideration?

Could we have our ruler commanding our armies/fleets in war? i know that many stellaris players play this very passionetly like actually caring for what their ruler is like, i like to do that too so anyway, i and a small group of stellaris players think that this kind of addition would be incredible and would be very immersive as well.

And i do apologize if this was suggested and denied or already confirmed or anything of the sort. ^^
 
Yes. We realize this is a bit odd, but compare the amount of times you would actually use an assault army to defend a planet compared to the amount of times you have to click 'embark' after invading one...

Did people really complain about this? Of all the clicking in the game, I can't say I've ever even thought about embarking transports as being something that stood out as annoying. Surveying planets on the other hand..

About the new design though, having assault armies always in space seems questionable, especially if the only reason for doing it is to save a few clicks. It might be better to just integrate transport ships into normal fleets if they're going to return to their ships after each action anyway. It never seemed particularly likely that a fleet commander would really just leave transport ships bumbling around alone in an active war zone anyway.
 
If an enemy fleet arrives over a planet your armies are fighting on, will your armies still get into their transports and fly into them? Will I not be able to 'ground' my armies when caught in a friendly system until a friendly fleet arrives or there is no enemy fleet in system?

If I land 100 units onto a planet with 5 width (extreme example) considering the less even damage spread will my units rotate who's at the front lines after a default/selected amount of damage is received? maybe instead of inflicting damage for a turn, or reducing my width for a turn?

If no will this mean I have to create armies and throw them at the front lines like ship replenishment for my fleets? Or is there no new creation/recruitment mechanic?

Do Starbases auto prevent planetary landings randomly for no notable reason, or is it only if they have ion cannon emplacements which have enough range to 'engage' fleets attempting to enter friendly world orbits? locking them into fleet combat unless they flee the system/destroy the starbase etc.
 
If an enemy fleet arrives over a planet your armies are fighting on, will your armies still get into their transports and fly into them? Will I not be able to 'ground' my armies when caught in a friendly system until a friendly fleet arrives or there is no enemy fleet in system?

If I land 100 units onto a planet with 5 width (extreme example) considering the less even damage spread will my units rotate who's at the front lines after a default/selected amount of damage is received? maybe instead of inflicting damage for a turn, or reducing my width for a turn?

If no will this mean I have to create armies and throw them at the front lines like ship replenishment for my fleets? Or is there no new creation/recruitment mechanic?

Do Starbases auto prevent planetary landings randomly for no notable reason, or is it only if they have ion cannon emplacements which have enough range to 'engage' fleets attempting to enter friendly world orbits? locking them into fleet combat unless they flee the system/destroy the starbase etc.
1)I think yes the would still do. Kinda a bad situation...
2)No cause that'd be counter to the idea of ensuring you will take some losses in an attack.
3)I don't know
4)Hostile starbases prevent you from landing troops on a planet.
 
@Wiz This screenshot shows that the armies of titans and genomods are on the planet. However, in the diary it was said that the attacking armies not participating in the invasion are automatically loaded onto the ship. Please help me understand.
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@Wiz This screenshot shows that the armies of titans and genomods are on the planet. However, in the diary it was said that the attacking armies not participating in the invasion are automatically loaded onto the ship. Please help me understand.

They've updated since the diary saying that attacking armies can now garrison planets, but no longer provide unrest reduction.