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Dev Diary #99 - Ground Combat & Army Rework

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris dev diary. Today's dev diary is about some changes coming to ground combat and armies in the 2.0 'Cherryh' update. This will be the last dev diary before we take a break for the holidays, so there will be no diaries in the next week or the week after that. Stellaris dev diaries return on Thursday January 11th, 2018.

Defense Armies and Fortresses
Constructing Defense Armies have always been largely a meaningless exercise in Stellaris. While they are useful for reducing Unrest and occasionally might be able to beat off an unprepared attacker, the fact that a planet is capped on how many armies can be defending it while the attacker is *not* capped on how many armies are attacking, coupled with the general weakness of defense armies, means that defending a planet against a ground invasion is generally an exercise in futility and will at most delay an attacker by a few weeks. However, if we solved this by just making defense armies a lot stronger or capping the number of attacking units, the result would turn every invasion of a backwater colony into a big affair - something that is not particularly desirable when a war can involve several different actors with hundreds of planets between them.

For this reason, we have decided to rework Defense Armies into something that is actually useful, but requires a significant investment of resources to muster more than a token defense. Instead of being directly buildable by the empire, defense armies are created from certain buildings. The capital building will produce defense armies depending on its level, as will some other planetary uniques like Military Academy. If you want a planet to be well defended, however, you will need to construct Fortress building on its tiles. Fortresses require a pop to work them, do not produce any other resources than a small amount of Unity, but provide a significant amount of defense armies to protect the planet. Armies spawned by Fortresses are also impervious to orbital bombardment, and will not be able to be killed without first ruining the building itself. The armies generated by a building have their species and type set by the pop working it, so a Very Strong Battle Thrall will produce several powerful defense armies if placed on a Fortress, and special pops like Droids will produce their own variants like Robotic Defense Armies rather than the normal ones. Fortified worlds will also be able to be fit with an FTL inhibitor (the exact way they get them is not yet determined) that prevents enemy fleets from leaving the system unless the world is captured, which allows for the creation of Fortress Worlds to protect strategically important systems.
2017_12_21_3.png

(Building icon is a placeholder)

One more important change related to Defense Armies is a change to Unrest: Armies on planets no longer reduce Unrest directly. Instead, to handle a planet with high Unrest, you will need to construct Fortress-style buildings or take other measures (such as using Edicts) to reduce the planetary Unrest. This means you cannot simply capture a planet and then spam a dozen defense armies to immediately zero out the Unrest. As part of this, we will be balancing certain events and effect to ensure newly captured worlds do not instantly defect back to their former owner.

Finally, as part of all these changes Defense Armies have received a general buff and there are several new technologies that unlock additional tiers of forts and various improvements to Defense Armies' combat ability, meaning that they will grow stronger alongside the invention of new, more powerful assault armies.

Assault Army Management
A major aim of our changes to armies is to reduce the amount of unnecessary micromanagement of armies. For this reason, and to make Assault Armies' role more explicit, we have decided to change Assault Armies to always be based in space. Whenever not directly engaged in an invasion, Assault Armies will now always automatically embark onto their transports, ready to be used to invade another world. We also aim to fix the minor but immersion-breaking bug where transport fleets are giving endlessly increasing sequential names whenever they land and embark again.

Combat Width, Retreating and Collateral Damage
Another change to ground combat is the introduction of new mechanics in the form of Combat Width. Combat Width is determined by the size of the planet, and decides how many armies can be taking and receiving damage at the same time: For example, if 20 assault armies invade a world held by 10 defense armies with a combat width of 10, all 10 defense armies will be immediately engaged in battle while only half the assault armies will be able to deal and receive damage, with additional assault armies joining the fray as the armies in front of them are destroyed. This means that it is no longer possible to take a well defended world without losses by simply throwing a hundred clone armies at it: If you wish to minimize losses (and thus War Exhaustion), you will need to invest in expensive, high-maintenance elite armies.
2017_12_21_1.png

(Interface not final)

We've also added the concept of Collateral Damage: As armies fight on the planet, civilians and civilian infrastructure is caught in the fighting. Each time an army deals damage in battle, it will inflict a random amount of Collateral Damage, which increases Planetary Damage similar to Orbital Bombardment (see below) and can lead to the death of Pops and the destruction of buildings and tiles. Some armies will deal more Collateral Damage than others: For example, Xenomorph armies are highly destructive and cost-efficient, but will wreak immense havoc on the planet, potentially leaving it in ruins in the process of capturing it for your empire.

While working on combat mechanics we also took the time to change the way Morale Damage works, making it something that is suffered by both sides (instead of just the loser) and making the effects of it more gradual, so that armies suffer a drop in combat efficiency once they are <50% morale, and then another, sharper drop when they are broken (0% morale). This should make certain armies, such as Psi Armies, highly effective against low-morale opponents like Slave Armies, but less effective against an unfeeling army of Droids. Finally, we've also tweaked the damage-dealing algorithm so that damage is less evenly spread among combatants, making it so that even an outnumbered force can destroy regiments and inflict war exhaustion on the enemy.
2017_12_21_2.png


Finally, we have made some changes to retreats. When an attacker retreats from a ground combat, there is now a significant chance that each retreating regiment is destroyed while attempting to return to space, making retreat a risky endeavour and eliminating the tactic of simply send in the same army again and again in wave attacks, instead making retreats something you do in order to preserve at least some of your army in a poorly chosen engagement.

Orbital Bombardment Changes
Finally, again in the interest of reducing the micromanagement needed during war, we've changed the way orbital bombardment works. Fortifications have been entirely cut from planets, so that there is no need to bombard lightly defended worlds before going in with the ground troops. Instead, we have added a requirement that planets cannot be invaded if there is a hostile Starbase in the system, so that transports cannot snipe worlds that are protected by defensive installations present in the same system. Orbital Bombardment, instead of being something you have to manage and wait for in every single planetary engagement, is now something you do to soften up a particularly well defended target, or simply to wreak havoc on the enemy's planet and drive up their War Exhaustion.

As a planet is bombarded, the fleet will deal Planetary Damage, ruining buildings and killing Pops. Bombarding fleets will also do damage to armies present on the planet (unless those armies are protected by a Fortress), and over a long enough time can decimate a defending force, though doing so will likely cause heavy damage to the planet and may delay the attacker long enough that the owner of the planet has time to build up their forces or inflict enough war exhaustion to force a peace. The rate at which the planet is damaged can also be slowed with the construction of buildings such as Planetary Defense Shield, further dragging out the process.

As part of these changes, we've consolidated the Bombardment Stances into the following:
  • Selective: Deals normal damage to armies/buildings and light damage to pops. Cannot kill the last 10 pops.
  • Indiscriminate: Deals heavy damage to armies, buildings and pops. Cannot kill the last 5 pops.
  • Armageddon: Deals massive damage to armies, buildings and pops. Can turn planets into depopulated Tomb Worlds with enough bombardment. Only available to certain empires such as Purifiers.

Attachments
Finally, on the topic of attachments, we have decided to cut them entirely from the game. We discussed a variety of ways to improve the way you assign them, but ultimately decided that we already have so many types of armies and not nearly enough combat mechanics to justify a significant investment of UI time that could go towards something like the Fleet Manager instead. The technologies that previously unlocked attachments will be changed to give other effects, such as direct buffs to certain army types.

That's all for today! As I said, we're now going on hiatus, so I'll see you again on January 11th with a dev diary about... well, that's a secret, actually. You'll just have to wait and see!
 
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ham14

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I went back an read this again this is going to cause nothing but frustration for new players like myself playing this game especially in the early game. Right now to get the same benefit unrest wise with starting armies you only have to spend 150 minerals and less than one energy upkeep. Now with fortresses you instead have to spend 450 minerals and 5 energy upkeep and wait over 6 months for the building to even be built. I usually just split up and leave my attacking armies on the planet after the war for that purpose. Now I will have to still pay for attacking army upkeep and build these way out of line cost wise buildings now on top of that. Not to mention with the unhappiness caused by taking the planets your usually lucky if they are producing enough food and energy to even maintain themselves to begin with.

Edit: Not to mention that these take away a tile that could be used for something else and if you need more unrest reduction will cost you even more tiles.
 
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monsterfurby

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Tomb Worlds can easily be colonized with mid- or late-game tech.
  1. Droids/Synthetics can be used to colonize them.
  2. Machine Empires can do it right from the start.
  3. Habitability-boosting techs can be stacked, with one that specifically boosts the habitability of Tomb Worlds.
  4. Adaptive/Extremely Adaptive further reduces the habitability penalties of Tomb Worlds.
  5. Some species that you Uplift can have "Irradiated", which boosts their habitability. Others specifically have Tomb World Habitability class, which makes them perfect for colonizing any world.

Also, there is a certain being of the nominally elongated, limbless variety which is quite happy to facilitate colonization of tomb worlds for your race. :rolleyes:
 

Dinkelman

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@Wiz Clear one thing up for me please. When you talk about assault armies never defending, are you referring to strictly the assault army unit, or all armies that are not defensive armies? If I build slave or clone armies, are these also not going to defend? If that is the case, which I hope and think it is not, I don't think you have thought this through. Psi armies would never counter slave armies because there would be no scenario in which they would battle each other, as one side would always be defensive armies. Again, I doubt this is what you mean, I just want to make sure because in my head I think of all non-defensive armies as a type of assault army, the first would just be the 'vanilla' assault army, so to speak.
 

kpipersburg

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This is an improvement, but it doesn't resemble actual occupation in wartime at all.

Occupied worlds should have unrest, and the pops should periodically generate armies that attempt to reclaim their homeworld (Think French Partisans from WWII). Maintaining control of occupied worlds during war should require keeping a large contingent of your invading assault armies present on the world to fight partisans -- withdrawing all of your forces will simply leave the civilians free to retake their home.

Assault armies could be balanced by simply having very high maintenance costs compared to defense armies, to represent the additional costs of maintaining large interstellar transport craft. In a pinch, you should be able to garrison your own worlds with your assault armies (think: withdrawing your forces to fortify your heartland). And once you end the war and cede a new world, you could maintain your army there until you've had time to build up a more typical policing force to manage unrest.

Micromanagement would not be increased by this -- it would just mean you need a large army to occupy worlds. Your army could automatically leave a pre-set occupation contingent after it captures a world, with the rest of the army returning to space for the next world.

Was not going to comment or suggest anything on this thread, 'cause frankly my ideas tend to be much larger in scope, but I'll respond to you.

I agree with you that there needs to be some kind of residual occupation force on planets. It confuses me how on the current patch, the militias spring up as the species living on the planet giving the weird effect of having to smash armies of your own species to liberate them. Hearkening to ww2, this isn't too far fetched being similar to the Polish being conscripted by the Germans during the war, but native militias should not be the ONLY occupational forces on a planet. It's just odd. As to the need for large occupational forces of a conquered people... There is none. Every occupation of a nation has been done with a nominal force meant to remind the people that they've been conquered. The main forces move on and the army sends in occupation forces. Occupations often fail due to the mistreatment of the populace coupled with an occupation force that is stretched too thin.

I do not think that we should be able to leave assault forces on planets except to reinforce an ongoing battle. Instead, after a planet has been captured, occupation forces of the attacker species should spawn according to the combat width (or half) of the planet with low hp that gradually fills to signify the conquering people sending in a force to hold the planet. Lots of cool things could be added for this depending on who is doing the occupying. For instance, if your population is occupied by a devouring swarm, they could get a "afraid of being eaten" modifier that causes more frequent attempts at revolt assault forces rising up to displace the occupation forces. Events such as com messages saying the population are being numbered like cattle could go off. In the case of purifiers or exterminators, the events could be "death camps" or "slave camps" for slavers. As a consequence of the event, there could be a loss of population for the owner and food/society/new slave pop in nearest planet for the occupier. In response, the planet spawns resistance forces equal to the number of pops still on the planet. This would bring some urgency to recapturing your planets versus certain empires. It could also be a way to bring more stats/personality to governors or generals (if generals could get some kind of sector slot for defense as suggested previously) in the way of giving them a buff to "occupation resistance" or "military background" increasing resistance force strength.

Anyway, your post was interesting and I think much could be made off the idea of occupation forces.
 

Anschau

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So if a pop on a fortress is psychic the defense army is psychic as well? Slave pop on a fortress is a slave army? Droid is droid army? Do I have to research any of these first?
 

Kinkness

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@Wiz

A question I have, sorry if it's been asked.

1) Since Invasion Armies are always in space now, do we get to modify their transport ships?
2) Do they act like fleets do as well, where we can choose a "Home Base" for them?
3) Will we get an Army manager now that army composition will be more important, and having several different army unit types in the same army will be much easier, and even be almost required?
 

Kinkness

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I hope something will be done with army "unit" fitting interface, its really a pain to fit attachments to a huge army right now.
Read the dev diary. They are removing Attachements.
 

Deadcurze

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uuuh Armageddon sounds nice now.

would it be possible to mod it too so that instead of turning it into a tombworld it instead turns it into a mechanical world with cyborgs or so?
If you really want to, you can make Armageddon bombardment turn planets into Gaia worlds; it will make just as little sense. If you were expecting robotic flowers and sunshine as a renewable energy source you shouldn't be bathing populated worlds in nuclear hellfire, you dunce. (In all honesty though, a little radiation aren't going to affect us those magnificent and benevolent synthetics much, so nuke ahead remain peaceful, because we they are friendly and utterly harmless capable of defending ourselves themselves, but only when doing so does not harm sentient life. Beep Boop. Nuclear Holocaust. Generic robot noise. )
 

Deadcurze

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So, I was wondering, if your armies are in space all the time, aren't they incredibly vulnerable to enemy attacks? With the current system, they would be shredded almost immediately, even if they are next to a friendly fleet or fortification. Furthermore, I really hope I misinterpreted this: "Armies spawned by Fortresses are also impervious to orbital bombardment, and will not be able to be killed without first ruining the building itself."; with the current system, building destruction is rare and random --- I'd hate to see a system where I have to rain hellfire upon a planet for years on end, killing billions, because that one annoying building just won't budge. At that point it might be more humane to just dump a couple hundred thermonuclear warheads on the planet and be done with it, although that would be a PR nightmare.
 

Kinkness

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So, I was wondering, if your armies are in space all the time, aren't they incredibly vulnerable to enemy attacks? With the current system, they would be shredded almost immediately, even if they are next to a friendly fleet or fortification. Furthermore, I really hope I misinterpreted this: "Armies spawned by Fortresses are also impervious to orbital bombardment, and will not be able to be killed without first ruining the building itself."; with the current system, building destruction is rare and random --- I'd hate to see a system where I have to rain hellfire upon a planet for years on end, killing billions, because that one annoying building just won't budge. At that point it might be more humane to just dump a couple hundred thermonuclear warheads on the planet and be done with it, although that would be a PR nightmare.
That's by Orbital Bombardment. It actually makes sense technically.

You can't eradicate the entire planets military from space. You'll have to eventually put boots on the ground and attack them head on. That's what this is doing. It's forcing you to use armies, rather than sit in space and just kill off everything without trouble.

That army an be damaged by other armies, just not space.
 

Deadcurze

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That's by Orbital Bombardment. It actually makes sense technically.

You can't eradicate the entire planets military from space. You'll have to eventually put boots on the ground and attack them head on. That's what this is doing. It's forcing you to use armies, rather than sit in space and just kill off everything without trouble.

That army an be damaged by other armies, just not space.
Ah, in that case it makes total sense. I'll still probably just sit every battle out while slugging projectiles at their cities until I learn how to create non-sentient bullet-sponges. I don't like getting my hands dirty and neither do my minions citizens.
 

SteelPaladin1997

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At this point, I'm not really sure why the distinction between assault and defense armies even exists anymore. The whole concept has always felt like a kludge (actual military units are specialized, but not so specialized that they are completely incapable of taking on either role). With the new setup that (defensive) army units are based on your infrastructure to support them (good; militaries need bases and other supporting infrastructure when not actively deployed), why not just have armies?

If you can't just spam build assault armies and any ground military requires supporting infrastructure, now you have to make interesting choices. Every unit you deploy for assault weakens your defensive capability where that unit is based (since they have homes like fleets now). If you're engaged in all out offensive war, your homeland is going to be much squishier with most of your armies deployed. That's both realistic and useful for gameplay.

It gives defenders an inherent advantage, because their forces are all home rather than outside of their territory leaving their infrastructure exposed. And it further weakens doomstack strategies because you have to maintain a solid front to keep opponents from exploiting your exposed home regions.
 

Deadcurze

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At this point, I'm not really sure why the distinction between assault and defense armies even exists anymore. The whole concept has always felt like a kludge (actual military units are specialized, but not so specialized that they are completely incapable of taking on either role). With the new setup that (defensive) army units are based on your infrastructure to support them (good; militaries need bases and other supporting infrastructure when not actively deployed), why not just have armies?

If you can't just spam build assault armies and any ground military requires supporting infrastructure, now you have to make interesting choices. Every unit you deploy for assault weakens your defensive capability where that unit is based (since they have homes like fleets now). If you're engaged in all out offensive war, your homeland is going to be much squishier with most of your armies deployed. That's both realistic and useful for gameplay.

It gives defenders an inherent advantage, because their forces are all home rather than outside of their territory leaving their infrastructure exposed. And it further weakens doomstack strategies because you have to maintain a solid front to keep opponents from exploiting your exposed home regions.
While it would make sense for some army types, robots and clones could feasibly be spammed to one's heart's desire, as long as one has the resources to create (and possibly train) them. I don't believe restricting that freedom would make much sense lore-wise, though it might make for a good balancing mechanic.
 

Kayden_II

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Assault Armies will now always automatically embark onto their transports
I think, that I would still prefer the possibility, that my actual battle-fleet would carry my ground-forces ...
Since we have different ship-sizes (corvettes, destroyers, cruisers and battleships), I would also introduce different ground-force-sizes (squads, platoons, companies, battalions, brigades, divisions, corps or/and armies) ...
I'm mentioning this to avoid 2 silly situations in which 1.) the corvette-type would already be able to carry a whole army and 2.) nobody would be able to invade a world in the early-game-stage, due to the consideration, that it would be unrealistic, that the corvette-type would already be able to carry a whole army ...

As part of these changes, we've consolidated the Bombardment Stances into the following:
Selective: Cannot kill the last 10 pops.
Indiscriminate: Cannot kill the last 5 pops.
Armageddon: Can turn planets into depopulated Tomb Worlds with enough bombardment.
Why the usage of absolute values instead of relatives ones ? ...
Selective: Cannot kill more than 50% of the POPs of a world ...
Indiscriminate: Cannot kill more than 90% of the POPs of a world ...
Armageddon: Possibility to kill 100% of the POPs of a world ...

Attachments
Finally, on the topic of attachments, we have decided to cut them entirely from the game.
Slackers^^
 

Riftwalker

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And if you say no, and then just keep glassing planets?

if they can get YOU to 100 war exhaustion you'll be forced into peace. you'll gain this from just space battles and the such so they might simply throw what they have at you until you tip over too 100 exhaustion and peace out what they can.
 

SteelPaladin1997

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While it would make sense for some army types, robots and clones could feasibly be spammed to one's heart's desire, as long as one has the resources to create (and possibly train) them. I don't believe restricting that freedom would make much sense lore-wise, though it might make for a good balancing mechanic.

Not really. Maintaining an effective fighting force is always going to require infrastructure beyond the initial cost of creation. Robot armies still need munitions, maintenance, and repairs. Clones can be bred quickly, but they're still living creatures that require shelter and upkeep or they die. Even xenomorphs need food and some place to be contained between uses, plus support for their handlers.

Unless you're going to have armies that literally die off after one use, there's nothing that doesn't require some form of infrastructure to keep it in fighting trim for the next time it's needed.