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Dev Diary #91: Starbases

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary marks the start of dev diaries about a major upcoming update that we have named the 'Cherryh' update after science fiction author C.J. Cherryh. This is a major update that will include some very significant reworks to core gameplay systems, reworks that we have been prototyping and testing for some time. Right now, we cannot say anything about the exact nature of the update or anything at all about when it will be released, other than that it's far away. Normally, we wouldn't be doing dev diaries on an update at this stage at all, but there's simply so much to talk about that we have to start early. Cherryh will be a massive update, the largest one we've done to date, and there are many new and changed things to talk about in the coming weeks and months.

Please bear in mind that screenshots are from an early internal build and will contain art and interfaces that are WIP, non-final numbers, hot code and all that business.

Border Rework
We've never been entirely happy with the border system in Stellaris. While it generally works fine from a gameplay perspective, it has some rather quirky elements, such as being able to claim ownership of systems that you have never visited and indeed have no ability to reach and making it hard to tell what the exact border adjustments will be when planets are ceded or outposts are built. For this reason, we have decided to fundamentally rework the Stellaris border system to be based on solar system ownership. Each system will have a single owner, with complete control of the system, and borders are now simply a reflection of system ownership rather than a cause for it to change. In the Cherryh update, who owns a system is almost always based on the owner of the Starbase in said system.
2017_10_26_1.png


Starbases
A Starbase is a space station orbiting the star of said system. Each system can only have a single Starbase, but this can be anything from a remote Outpost to a massive Citadel with its own 'fleet' of orbiting defense stations. Starbases can be upgraded and specialized in a variety of ways (more details on this below), and is the primary means of determining system ownership. This means that wars are no longer fought for colonies controlling a nebulous blob of border that may not actually include the systems you really want, but rather for the exact systems you are interested in, and their starbases. This change of course would not be possible if we kept the wargoal system that exists in the live version of the game (just imagine the size of that wargoal list...), but more on that in a couple weeks.
2017_10_26_2.png


As Starbases now determine system ownership, it will no longer be possible to colonize or invade primitives outside your borders in the Cherryh update, but if a system contains a colony and no starbase, it will still count as being inside the borders of the colony's owner. These restrictions are moddable. Since Starbases now cost influence to construct (see below), we have removed the influence cost for colonizing and attacking primitives.

Starbases entirely replace the old system of Frontier Outposts.

Starbase Construction
With borders from colonies gone, empires now start only owning their home system, with a Starbase already constructed around their home star. To expand outside their home system, empires will have to construct Outposts in surveyed systems. An Outpost is a level 'zero' Starbase that has only very basic defenses and cannot support any buildings or modules, but also does not count towards your maximum Starbase Capacity (more on that below). Building an Outpost in a system costs influence, with the cost dependent on how far away the system is and how contigous it is to your empire as a whole, so 'snaking' or building starbases to ring in a certain part of space will be more influence-costly than simply expanding in a natural way. Starbases do not cost any influence upkeep, just an up-front cost when first building one in a system. As this change makes influence far more important in the early game, there will also be significant balance changes to empire influence generation in the Cherryh update.
2017_10_26_3.png


As an aside note, because we felt it made very little sense to have a home system with a fully built Starbase but no surveyed planet, empire home systems will now start surveyed, with a only slightly randomized amount of resources, and mining/research stations for some of those resources already in place. This should also help make player starts a little less random, ensuring that you are never *completely* without resources in your home system.
2017_10_26_4.png


Another thing we have been wary about when working on this is making sure that building the Outposts for each system does not simply feel like adding tedium. Right now, between the fact that which systems you choose to spend your limited influence on is an extremely important choice, and various tweaks and interface improvements we are making to ease up the process of developing your systems, we are confident that this will not be the case. We've also made it so that there are no entirely 'empty' systems (systems with no resources at all), as we discovered during playtesting that spending influence to claim such a system felt extremely unrewarding.

Upgrades and Capacity
Each empire will have a Starbase Capacity that represents the number of upgraded Starbases they can support. There are five levels of Starbases:
Outpost: A basic Outpost that exists only to claim a system. Costs no energy maintenance and does not count towards the Starbase Capacity, and cannot support buildings or modules. Outposts will also not show up in the outliner or galaxy map, as they are not meant to be interacted with at all unless it is to upgrade the Outpost to a Starport.
Starport: The first level of upgraded Starbase, available at the start of the game. Supports 2 modules and 1 building.
Starhold: The second level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 4 modules and 2 buildings.
Star Fortress: The third level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 3 buildings.
Citadel: The final level of upgraded Starbase, unlocked through tech. Supports 6 modules and 4 buildings.
2017_10_26_5.png


Regardless of the level of the Starbase, so long as it is not an Outpost, it will use 1 Starbase Capacity and will show up on the map and in the outliner. Overall, the design goal is for the vast majority of Starbases to be Outposts that you never have to manage, with a handful of upgraded Starbases that are powerful and critical assets for your empire. Going over your Starbase Capacity will result in sharply increased Starbase energy maintenance costs. Starbase Capacity can be increased through techs, traditions and other such means. You also gain a small amount of Starbase Capacity from the number of Pops in your empire. If you end up over Starbase Capacity for whatever reason, it is possible to downgrade upgraded Starbases back into Outposts. It is also possible to dismantle Starbases entirely and give up control of those systems, so long as they are not in a system with a colonized planet.
2017_10_26_6.png

2017_10_26_10.png


Spaceports and Ship Construction
Starbases fully replace Spaceports in the role of system/planet defense and military ship construction. Spaceports still exist, but are no longer separate stations but rather an integrated part of the planet, and can only build civilian ships (Science Ships, Construction Ships and Colony Ships). To build military ships you will need a Starbase with at least one Shipyard module (more on that below). Starbases also replace Spaceports/Planets in that they are now the primary place to repair, upgrade, dock and rally ships, though civilian ships are also able to repair at planets.
2017_10_26_1.png

2017_10_26_4.png


Modules and Buildings
All non-Outpost Starbases can support Modules and Buildings. Some of these are available from the start of the game, while others are unlocked by tech. Some modules and buildings are only available in certain systems, for example Trading Hubs can only be constructed in colonized systems.

Modules are the fundamental, external components of the Starbase, and determine its actual role. Module choices include Trading Hubs (for improving the economy of colonized systems), Anchorages (for Naval Capacity), Shipyards (for building ships, duh), and different kinds of defensive modules such as gun turrets and strike craft hangar bays that improve the Starbase's combat ability. There is no restrictions on the number of modules you can have of a certain type, besides the actual restriction on module slots itself. This means, for example, that you can have a Starbase entirely dedicated to Shipyards, capable of building up to 6 ships in parallell. Modules will also change the graphical appearance of the Starbase, so a dedicated Shipyard will look different from a massive defensive-oriented fortress brimming with dozens of gun turrets.
2017_10_26_7.png


Buildings represent internal structures inside the Starbase proper, and typically work to enhance modules or provide a global buff to the Starbase or system as a whole. Building choices include the Offworld Trading Company that increases the effectiveness of all Trading Hub modules, and the Listening Post that massively improves the Starbase's sensor range. You cannot have multiples of the same building on the same Starbase.
2017_10_26_8.png


Defenses
One of the fundamental problems with the military stations in the live version of the game is that they simply do not have enough firepower. Even with impressive hit points and shields, a station with at most a dozen or so guns simply cannot match the firepower of a whole fleet. An another issue is the ability to build multiple defense stations in the same system, meaning that no single station can be strong enough to match a fleet, as otherwise a system with several such stations will be effectively invulnerable. For this reason we decided to consolidate all system defenses into the Starbase mechanics, but not into a single station. Starbases come with a basic array of armaments and utilities (gun and missile turrets, shields and armor, etc), with the exact number of weapons based on the level of the Starbase. These are automatically kept up to date with technological advances, so your Starbases won't be fielding red lasers and basic deflectors when facing fleets armed with tachyon lances.
2017_10_26_2.png


Additionally, Starbases (with the exception of Outposts) have the ability to construct defense platforms to protect them. Constructed defense platforms will form a 'fleet' around the Starbase, supporting it with their own weapons and giving Starbases the firepower needed to engage entire fleets. The amount of defense platforms a Starbase can support may depend on factors such as starbase size and modules/buildings, technology, policies, and so on. The exact details here are still being worked on, but the design intent is that if you invest into them, Starbase defenses will scale against fleets across the whole game rather just being completely outpaced in the late game as military stations and spaceports currently are in the live version.
2017_10_26_3.png


One last note on Starbases: For a variety of reasons (among them to avoid something like the tedious rebuilding of Spaceports that happens at the end of wars) Starbases cannot be destroyed through conventional means. They can, however be disabled and even captured by enemies. More on this in a couple weeks.

... whew, this was a long one but that's all for today! Next week we'll continue talking about the Cherryh update, with the topic being Faster than Light travel...
 
Last edited:

Heowars

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The guys in the New Ship Classes & More mod are going to have a field day with the starbases. I cannot wait for the update to see what they will be able to brew up.
 

youstas

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If my construction ship will be destroyed by space gems or space amebas or whatever and outpost will not be finished i will lost spended influence or i will be able to finish outpost construction in any time later?
 

Kajan451

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Please excuse me for not reading all 43 pages of the discussion, before replying, so maybe it has been brought up already and answered, but reading this it sounds good, but one thing i am concerned about is FTL movement in the late game.

Right now its already a PITA to secure your empire from the enemy smuggling their fleets past your defensive systems. Limiting the number of stations i can have is concerning to me. It sounds like i can no longer protect my borders with a bunch of stations. Especially against the AI, who sends 1-2 ship reinforcements through my system to their main fleet... i sort of depend on my stations to stop these. I might not be able to stand up to their main fleet, but that is what i have my main fleet for. I simply beat their mainfleet, until its on the run... or use a station to farm tech from a superior's fleet's reinforcements with Stations. But now i am limited in the amount of stations i can build.

Also limiting the building of stations to Influence is concerning in this regard. This means not only will i be limited in the amount of stations i can have during a war, and be needing my influence to siphon additional funds from my sector banks, in order to keep my warmachine going, but also will i need influence to rebuild defensive stations that might get destroyed? If so, Influence storage needs to be increased.


I am happy that i will be able to have my Fleet Yards in my home system now, instead of having to find a system with 3+ habitable planets in it, and it will be more rewarding to plaster my home system with habitats as result of this change.... but i really am worried about border security now. Unless defensive stations can pull in an enemy fleet from several other systems... i fear people will just avoid them. With Jump Drives and Wormholes... its difficult enough in Live to secure your border, but its not impossible. I can just put a small Station there.... or fighting a retreat battle against a Fallen Empire or Endgame crisis, in which i relied on small Defensive Plattforms slowing them down by pulling them to the center of the system. All that is out of the window.

I really hope you'll address the way Defensive Stations are going to work now, because they just cannot be only active in the system they are build, or people will just avoid those systems. I am more than happy to hear that Citadel Defense Stations will be able to stand up to fleets... i like the idea of being able to 'turtle' to some degree (which is good for isolating yourself and should help things like empires that cannot create alliances)... or to lure in a superior fleet into my Defensive system, where i wait for it with my entire fleet and the station to help... i like the idea... i just am worried about it being to easy to just avoid these systems.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Unless defensive stations can pull in an enemy fleet from several other systems... i fear people will just avoid them.
Warp and Wormholes are quite likely being completely reworked based on available evidence- hyperlanes will be the default starting tech for everyone and alternatives must be researched later, with likely niche applications.
 

MAju

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I want upgraded starbases are indicated on side tab, like planets or ships.
If not, it is very inconvenient to manage established starbases or make warships.
 

Hype

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you can get clearer. I don't know why people are so against a direct answer, so that it can be directly quoted and not have to use inference to determine if an outpost has all the same rules applied to it that starbases do. I've been dealing with several people not understanding this and so it was not made sufficiently clear, if it was then people would not be confused over this. To be clear, they currently can be destroyed, and nothing in the OP actually says that this is being changed, it appears to state new rules but does not state that current rules on outposts are changing, if it was clear that current outposts are put under the umbrella of starbases(which is never directly said, only inferred by saying most starbases will be outposts, this is an inference that current outposts will become the outposts that are in the OP) or that outposts no longer hold the same destructibility they currently do then no confusion would occur. complaining that you understood it, so therefore it was clear enough, is a logical fallacy of the propositional type. The OP is clear to some people and not clear to others, so it can be improved to encompass all people.

seriously, it's never directly said in the OP, people keep quoting and saying it's clear, but those sentences obviously show no intent to clarify current outposts position relative to the new game rules, you have to use inference to determine that the current outposts are becoming level 0 starbases and thus fall under the indestructible rules.

I don't understand why people are against having a quote that doesn't require inference to be useful.

also, please don't commit an appeal to common sense fallacy, just because it seems extremely clear to you does not mean everyone will pick up on the inferred intent. (I really hate trying to break through people using common sense fallacies, ease of understanding for you doesn't mean you're necessarily correct, and you should still provide evidence and not simply rely on 'it can't get much clearer')

as for unconventional means, I assume that you can still destroy them to abandon a system, a FE can still tell you to remove them, and they can probably be "cleansed" through wargoals or the like. I doubt you can do it through hostile means during a war.

It is directly said in the OP if you don't think so you have a problem with reading comprehension. It can't be any clearer than it is now stating it another way would do nothing for clarifying it. I don't get how you can't understand that. Several people, myself included, have quoted the relevant portion of the post, if you're still not getting nothing Wiz can say will make it any clearer.
 

huru2judge1

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Can you PLEASE add:

1. pure flavor text ship crew numbers. So that at the end of battles there will be a casualty counter. It need not be a playable component for the game. But if you did want to make it a playable component, maybe have "escape pods" that can be captured. Those captured escape pods can be released, ransomed, or executed and there could be positive or negative influence repercussions with an empire's population depending on the choice one makes.

2. Civilian trading ships. Nothing extensive -- just an occasional freighter that pops up between your planets and trades by itself. Empires can then negotiate trade deals to open up international trade (with positive influence generation as a result of the closer ties). Empires should also have the choice to declare trade wars and close borders to trade ships, forcing another empire's trade ships to fly around borders and be exposed to pirates.
 

General Karthos

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Did you read it completely? Stations aren't the only source of territory. Outposts are used to claim territory and don't count towards the station limit. Outposts and stations only claim the system they are built in.

You misunderstood me: What I meant is like what see in basically every single other 4X game, where you can see the territory you will gain by placing a new outpost, new colony, new city, whatever.

Right now I have to basically eyeball my frontier outposts and hope I get the territory I'm looking to add to my empire. Especially when another Empire's borders are right up against mine where I'm building the frontier outposts. I'd like to see how placing an outpost here or there would, theoretically, affect the borders.
 
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Sibericus

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You misunderstood me: What I meant is like what see in basically every single other 4X game, where you can see the territory you will gain by placing a new outpost, new colony, new city, whatever.

Right now I have to basically eyeball my frontier outposts and hope I get the territory I'm looking to add to my empire. Especially when another Empire's borders are right up against mine where I'm building the frontier outposts. I'd like to see how placing an outpost here or there would, theoretically, affect the borders.

I mentioned at the end of my post, but I'll elaborate on the point. Border extrusion as it functions currently will no longer exist. If you want to claim a system, you need to build an outpost in that system and it will only claim that system. If a system does not have an outpost or station, then it will not be in your territory. Predicting border extrusion is irrelevant, since borders from outposts will only ever encompass the system that they are built in.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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You misunderstood me: What I meant is like what see in basically every single other 4X game, where you can see the territory you will gain by placing a new outpost, new colony, new city, whatever.

Right now I have to basically eyeball my frontier outposts and hope I get the territory I'm looking to add to my empire. Especially when another Empire's borders are right up against mine where I'm building the frontier outposts. I'd like to see how placing an outpost here or there would, theoretically, affect the borders.
Your borders will expand to encompass that system, and only that system. There isn't a border "push" anymore.
 

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After reading this I am suddenly looking forward to the future of Stellaris. I’ve never managed to get far as the development curve happens too fast for me in that the AI eclipses me in everything within 200 years. One day I’ll actually learn how to play this game.
This system however makes me thinks it’ll be easier to know when to expand as you’ll be waiting for an amount of influence before clicking a button. Gives a reason to know when expansion is ready to happen.
I’m looking at this and thinking it would be cool if construction ships were removed from the game and stellar buildings were made by drones from a starbase. This means you no longer have a construction ship sat taking up maintenance for the whole game. And Star Bases would be built like a colony is. You build a specific ship that gets used up upon creation of the outpost.
That’s just my ideas on it. I’m sure whatever you guys come up with will be great.
 

Devanor

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The guys in the New Ship Classes & More mod are going to have a field day with the starbases. I cannot wait for the update to see what they will be able to brew up.

Oh yes, it'll be interesting to see what they'll come up with.
 

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Woah, 42 pages.
When I started reading this thread it had only been 30..
Think so many fanboys out there, arguing passionatly is a good sign, but I hope @Wiz you're still reading those posts.

I want to say first this is written from my personal view as 25 to 35 year old casual gamer (hm, still 260 hours in 6 weeks), which I supose are the majority of the people playing this game.
Sorry if I might get emotional at some points, I just love this game so much.

Now after several hours of reading theese past days, although my initial euphoria got dampend by some of the arguments and views (because some do make sense to me), I've got to say I am am still exited.
Multiple constructionlanes in one station / some kind of starbase mega structure had been on my mind for weeks. The remake of the bordersystem is in dire need imho.
Albeit I am unsure whethere this will work out fine on the get go, I am sure that after one or two patches paradox will straighten this out.

I also am happy about the starting system beeing explored and partialy mined. Reading Red Mars, The Expanse and stuff like that, this makes sense to me.
In fact an auto exploration function (not survey) from the start would be nice. Especialy for military vessels, or some new kind of reconvessel (maybe one small or no weapons at all and low hullpoints, but quicker ftl wind up and wind down?) woud be nice from the start.
A rework of the War demands system, give me more like that.
Possible automization for mining and research station building? I've got to get some fireworks burning for that occasion.
I hope diplomacy's going to get a rework to, since it is a bit unintuitive, murky and not well explained how it works(tutorial?).

Indestructible spacestations working like enigmatic fortresses make sense to me from a gaming point of view. Same as only being able to have just one per system situated on the sun. Still it would be nice to shoot them to a dead repairable husk, like the abandoned mega structures.. ..since I guess you guys will implement destroyed citadells as precursor quests or something simmilar.


Now I don't want to mingle in the "This will get us more clicks!" vs. "Oh guess what? You use a mouse for this game!" discussion, but I do want to point out, that me and all my rl-friends who play this game are unsatisfied with the UI.
I think a remoddeling of the UI would rid us entierly of this discussion. Since there have been improvements, and further will surely be.
Noticed the fleet icons in the first screenshot of the OP? Yaaay!
I love it!


So simple, so needed.
I am not optimistic, I am sure there will be more.

Like I would love to know from the galaxymap whether those ten shiny Minerals are located in five or four objects.
Because in the early to early mid game I tend to highly prioritize miningstations with 3+ minerals or minerals + energy for obivious reasons.
Mabe a little list / window appearing when hovering ofer a system or in the construction menue of construction ships. I don't know how you could implement an automization function regarding the building of mining/researchstations including prioritizations without getting it to complicated for the average user, though it would be kind of nice.

Further a centralized fleet contruction screen.
Even with the new starbases this would be awesome, you could still order individualy at the respective starbases.
And shift + left click to order ten ships at a time would be awesome too (like resources in sector or diplomacy menue).

Uh, does anyone else than me have this issue with construction ships?
You right click on a system to see if you can afford the stations, (you don t know if tere are three or six minable objects, right?) you can't afford them and you have to deselect and reselect the constructionship to do the same over the next system.
(unless you have shortbinds for every construction ship, but I save those for my planets to build ships etc.)
I mean it would be easier if the ship would'nt be deselected when I click on the map to close the building menue or if it'd be converted to hold rightclick and release right click over the option you wnat to choose or over the map to close the build menue.
Same with research ships btw.

Now let's get to the beefy part.
Planets, fleets, fleetupgrades and armies.

I wish I could just exclude one ship from a selected fleet by rightclicking it and form a new fleet by successively doing this.
I wish I had an Upgrade menue where I could decide how many ships of my selected fleet get upgraded into which class of the same hulltype(slide bar mabe?).
For example, I have several different classes of corvettes during a game and two to three in the late game and I want to be able to upgrade fifteen of my 50 energysyphon + laser corvettes into energy torpedo corvettes and the rest into plasma corvettes. If thats possible please someone tell me, because I couldn't find it in the game and I think most players don't know. Like ctrl + shift + click should be in the tutorial.(best combo ever)

Furthermore a small bar in the vessel construction list between corvettes and destroyers and cruisers and battleships and civilian ships would be nice.
When you've got a list of several shipclasses for every hulltype it gets tiresome to read through the list and build the wrong ship by accident. The little icons left to the entries aren't that distinguishable, unlike the one to four to one giant square used on the map.
Also it'd be awesome to drag and drop construction orders. Hell, even when I lose progress, which I do now anyway, I would be happy to simply drag and drop. Not delete the whole constrution list.

About Armies..
Now I think all of us can agree, that the armytab is cumbersome and unsatisfactory.
Appart from the usual constructionlist drag and drop issue,
I want to see immediatly which armies are defense armies and which are offensive ones.
Yes even which ones are tier one armies or tier two armies, slave armies, clone armies and so on.
This system with the OVERLAPPING tokens I have to hover over whith the mouse is a royal pain in my behind.
Ever tried to dissassemble all your tier one deffensive grids while having other robot armies?
Why can't I have a proper army srceen which allows me to select several armies and disband them at once?

And I am still not talking about army upgrades.....



......please just do something about it.


Now considering planets the suguestions are similar.

I want a build list on the side in addition to numers on tiles and to drag and drop on that list.
I want to cancel orders by right clicking on them in the list / on the tile.
I would love to see a build menue open(like in the space station tab) when I open the surface tab and simply click on the building I want to build then on the tile and any further tile I want to build. Deselect with right click. Same with buildable pops.
I want to see the natural tile rescources without haveing to click on each tile separately. Put them in brackes mabe after clicking a chekbox or pushing alt. It works for the galaxy map too.
And when upgrading capital buildings, could you show me please how many pops are missing like you show me how many minerals do? Not simply tell me there are insufficient, this is inconsistent.
Since capital buildings need a certain amout of pops a little popcounter would be nice in the surface tab.
I don't want to count manualy if I already have ten or fifteen pops.

Also it would be great to select multiple pops and dissassemble/purge them in one go, not click three or four time for each.
Mabe split the surface tab to a building and a pop tab altogether. Might be easier as long as you can still shove the pops arround in the building tab. But I am no game designer so I am not sure if this would be a good idea.

And a planetary based no reproduction order, edict or at least to be able to mark individual tiles that aren't supposed to get new pops growing or immigrating pops. Ever played driven assimilators, slavers or rouge servitors?
Beeing able to only do this for an entire species and only reajust it evry ten years makes it frustrating.

Imagine this:
Ah, yes I want to build another pop on this planet but... Doh! I paused the game one hundreth of a second to late and another stupid useless biotrophy pop is growing!
I don't have the influence or free tiles on other planets to move it, but if I have had prohibited reproduction I wouldn't have enough to get my rougue servitor moral bonus.


Don't get me wrong I love this game.
It's the first game I consider a worthy successor to MoO2.
Fuck, it is the worthy successor to MoO2!
There's just the little suck in the game I hope you guys get out of it in the next or future patches.


TLDR:
Patch seems promising. Please remodd the interface ---> reduce cliks, make it clearer.


Now for some comment commenting:

On a positive note, the stations could be used to include some kind of civilian life to the game.
Have you considered adding little civie ships flying too and from the station to colonies and such; could perhaps also tie that in to some kind of automation with mining stations and research stations. Something like a "Civilian Mining Authority" that uses up a shipyard slot but auto generates mining stations over time in a system.

To lighten load on generating new models, fake it with particles, I'm sure the artists could make it look good? :p
Yaeh. You scratched a nice topic.
Lets get more life into this universe.
I hope there will be a Patch / DLC adding purely optical civilian freighters and public transports that move up and down gravity wells to stations and FTL Routes to your other systems or other empirers you are trading with.
Also let's pick up the space whales and such. Make an option in the game setup for borne aliens to respawn.
This galaxy feels a little empty.

Warp and Wormholes are quite likely being completely reworked based on available evidence- hyperlanes will be the default starting tech for everyone and alternatives must be researched later, with likely niche applications.

Well I see no evidence.
I see no hyperlanes on the screenshot from the "Stellaris Dev Diary #89: 1.8 Post Release Support (part 2)" thread and since you can make a game Hyperlanes only I wouln'd see a need for it.

It's a flavour choice. There are no arguents why only one should be allowed.
Game setup option do the job just fine.
As it is evryone can have it their way: static trenchwar or whack-a-Mole or both.
I enjoy some of my games this way, some the other.
I think it would suck If you'd force all players to the FTL a fourth likes most(hyperlanes), as it would suck to do the same with the one the other fourth likes(wormholes). The remaining half likes all of them, together and variations.

Why destroy the game for three quaters to appease one?
Makes no sense to me and I don't yet see why Paradox would make such a descision.

Well we will see more on that topic mext week. Mabe you are right, though I hope you are not.
Mabe they decide in a later development stage to drop hyperlanes, also bad. There are issues with hyperlanes when playing on a spiral galaxy or when closed enemy territory is between.
When using the repair- / upgrade- fleet buttons, fleets make huge u-shaped detours in those cases to get to the system closest to their line of sight(mabe thirty jumps) instead to one a little further away which requires far less jumps(mabe ten).

Anyways I'm hyped for this patch and hoping for the best.
Love and peace among the galaxy. Skol!
 
Last edited:

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Outposts are Starbases too, and cannot be destroyed through conventional means.

I will not elaborate on what the unconventional means are at this point.
 

Devanor

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It's a flavour choice. There are no arguents why only one should be allowed.
poster%2C210x230%2Cf8f8f8-pad%2C210x230%2Cf8f8f8.lite-1.jpg


Jokes aside, there is an argument that the devs have brought up. If the game was made so you always had hyperlane to begin with, it would allow for some more strategic (or is it tactical? I never get the difference...) options, and the devs could change the galaxies with 'islands' as they call it with limited amounts of entrances, as well as chokepoints here and there. While those do appear already, they're rarely in spots that actually make a difference.

I will admit, I hated hyperdrive. Hated, as in, I don't anymore, not after doing a hyperdrive-only game, and as I've stated before, I think the new starports will have a huge impact on hyperdrive only maps, and this was a valid point too:
Considering all available evidence points towards "HYperlane Only" now being standard (with all empires starting using them and the other FTL methods being unlocked through research and re-worked to be a bit more niche in application), that was probably a design consideration, yes.
 

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If the game was made so you always had hyperlane to begin with, it would allow for some more strategic (or is it tactical? I never get the difference...) options, and the devs could change the galaxies with 'islands' as they call it with limited amounts of entrances, as well as chokepoints here and there. While those do appear already, they're rarely in spots that actually make a difference.
I get what you mean and it sounds interesting.
Still as long as the glaxy setup has the "xyz FTL" only options, there could be two different galaxy creation algorithms allowing for both(I think?).

Well we will see when we see.

Edit: Nice objection. :D
 

Jim Starluck

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2. Civilian trading ships. Nothing extensive -- just an occasional freighter that pops up between your planets and trades by itself. Empires can then negotiate trade deals to open up international trade (with positive influence generation as a result of the closer ties). Empires should also have the choice to declare trade wars and close borders to trade ships, forcing another empire's trade ships to fly around borders and be exposed to pirates.
Also a mod for that. Annoyingly, it currently fills your civ ship list in the outliner with "Civilian Freighter/Tanker."

Personally, I'd like to have players set up specific trade routes, possibly by constructing infrastructure (trade stations, depots, etc.), and the trade ships populating those. Maybe have them be required to distribute the effects of Strategic Resources throughout your empire -- blockade the trade route leading to the only source of one and the rest of the empire loses access to it. Could do a lot with that.
 

erneiz_hyde

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Mar 19, 2014
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Btw, have anyone commented about how this Starbase mechanic is pretty much how the Unfallen Faction from Endless Space 2 works?
And everyone starting with Hyperlane with unlockable Warp and Wormhole is also straight up ES mechanics. Glad to see Stellaris learns from their betters! :)
Now we just need to take some mechanics off GalCiv for a better planet-tile (and terraform) system and we'll end up with the perfect space game. Oh wait, there's the ground combat left.