• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #47 - Conversion and Assimilation

16_9.jpg

Happy Thursday! Today our topic returns to Pop mechanics, with a discussion around some of the finer details on how Pops may change their religion and culture over time depending on your nation’s legal system. The mechanics themselves are quite straightforward, but as always in Victoria 3, the applications of them can have quite different outcomes in different situations.

Let’s begin by reviewing the mechanics around Discrimination, since this will be important later in the discussion. We’ve already talked about most of this in other dev diaries but some details here may be new.
dakotaculture.png

Discriminated Pops have barely any Political Strength and cannot vote. This means the only way they can impact your country’s politics is by agitating for change through Political Movements, or by starting a civil war for self-rule through a Cultural Secession. In addition to being hamstrung politically, they also get paid substantially less than their non-discriminated counterparts, have a harder time developing Qualifications for certain Professions, and their presence in your country is a potential source of radicalism and Turmoil.

Whether a Pop is discriminated against or accepted depends on who they are, the national identity of the country they live in, and the laws of that country. Both culture and religion are potential reasons for discrimination, and these are controlled by different laws. Your Citizenship laws determine which Pops are discriminated against on the basis of their culture, while your Church and State laws determine which forms of worship are considered acceptable in your country. To be considered non-discriminated by these laws, Pops must pass a more or less stringent selection criteria based on how much they differ from the primary culture(s) and state religion in the country.

For example, under the Racial Segregation Citizenship law, only Pops whose culture’s heritage trait matches that of their primary cultures heritage trait will be accepted. The heritage trait indicates which region of the world the culture originates from (e.g. European, African, Indigenous American), and under this law that is the only thing that matters - whether the Pops speak the same language, or are both transplants in the New World, is unimportant in determining their status. By contrast, under Cultural Exclusion, any similarity between a Pop’s culture and one of the primary ones qualifies them as equal under the law.

The total set of options are:

Ethnostate: only Pops of primary cultures are accepted
National Supremacy: Pops whose cultures share both heritage and another trait are accepted
Racial Segregation: Pops of the same heritage are accepted
Cultural Exclusion: Pops whose cultures share any similarities are accepted
Multiculturalism: no cultures are discriminated against

State Religion: only Pops who adhere to the state religion are accepted
Freedom of Conscience: Pops who adhere to a religion in the same family as the state religion are accepted (e.g. any branch of Christianity, any form of Buddhist)
Total Separation: no religions are discriminated against

citizenshiplawsus.png

The practical impact of these laws therefore depends on what the state religion and primary cultures of your country are, as well as who actually lives in your country. An Ethnostate operates no differently in practice than a Multicultural state if only Pops of primary cultures live there. Since Pops are unlikely to mass migrate to your country if they’d be oppressed there once they arrived, until you expand your borders and populace by force you may not see a practical difference (except for a curious lack of immigrants). But if you were to form a Customs Union with a poorer neighbor, resulting in a lot of economic migration within the market to your country, you might have to deal with substantial political strife until you take steps to loosen up your Citizenship laws. If the option exists for you, as an alternative you might consider attempting to unify your nations instead (which we’ll learn more about next week) in order to accept both cultures as “primary”.

Alright, now that we’ve cleared up how countries can adapt to the Pops, we will consider how Pops might adapt to their country.

culturesus.png

First let’s tackle Religious Conversion. Pops who are discriminated against on the basis of their religion will always be in the process of converting to an accepted religion. The religion they convert to is not necessarily the state religion, though - it could be any accepted religion that is dominant in the state where they live. An Indigenous American following an Animist religion in a United States with Freedom of Conscience instead of Total Separation is eventually going to convert to some form of Christianity to avoid religious persecution, but if they live in a Nebraska that has been settled by predominantly Catholic rather than Protestant Pops, they would convert to Catholicism even though Protestantism is the dominant religion in the nation as a whole.

Pops convert at a percentage-based rate, currently set to a base of 0.2% / month (as usual, numbers such as these are subject to balancing and change before release, and are always moddable). A percentage-based conversion rate naturally means a diminishing number of actual converts over time, so at this rate it would take almost 30 years for ½ of your discriminated population to convert. If you find this rate too ponderous for your strategic goals, you have two primary tools at your disposal to speed it up.

The Religious School System law + institution combination increases this rate by +20% per investment level, up to a potential maximum of +100% (i.e. twice the speed). It also increases the Education Access of Pops overall and increases the Clout of the Devout Interest Group.

The other method is the Promote National Values decree. Like all decrees, it is issued in a certain state and costs Authority for each state it is issued in, so in a larger country you will have to focus your efforts. Promote National Values doubles the rate of both conversion and assimilation.

berbersunniconversion.png

Using a combination of both methods, you could speed up religious conversion such that ½ of a minority population can be converted to an accepted religion within the span of a 10 years. Of course, your school system only extends to incorporated states, so if you’re trying to mass convert Pops in conquered land or colonies you will have to do so by decree - or embark on the often lengthy and painstaking process of incorporating a part of the world that’s culturally alien to your country.

This leads us to cultural assimilation. The conditions for assimilation are a little more complex than conversion, and in some ways operate by the reverse logic. In order to start assimilating, a Pop must already be culturally accepted. After all, if they can’t get citizenship, can’t vote, can’t participate in politics, can’t get paid a fair wage on the basis of who they are, there simply is no way for them to assimilate - by which we mean, integrate themselves into a primary culture such that they are both accepted as such by others and genuinely consider themselves part of that culture. Renouncing one’s religious beliefs and practices can be a very practical and concrete choice, but adopting and being adopted by a different culture is not a utilitarian decision.

In addition, Pops will never change culture if they live in a state they consider their Homeland. A Franco-Canadian in Ontario might over time adopt the ways and tongue of their Anglo-Canadian neighbors, but a Franco-Canadian who resides in Quebec?! Plutôt mourir!

(And of course, if a confederated Canada has been created with both Anglo- and Franco-Canadian as primary cultures, none of those types of Pops would be changing cultures in the first place.)

If a Pop should be assimilating, the culture they will be assimilating into will always be a primary culture. This is because, again, this is not a practical decision that’s just up to the Pop in question, but a two-way-street of assimilation into the dominant national identity. In the case of countries with multiple primary cultures, the one selected will be the Homeland of the state the Pop lives in, or in case none or several apply, the dominant one among Pops who already live there. A Czech Pop living in a unified Germany (North + South German) in the state of Silesia (North German and Polish Homelands) will assimilate into the North German culture; if they lived in Bavaria they would be assimilating into the South German culture; and if they lived in Bohemia they would not assimilate at all, since Bohemia is a not only a South German but also a Czech Homeland. If this Pop instead lived in Transylvania (with both Hungarian and Romanian primary cultures and Homelands), they would be assimilating into whichever of those cultures is more dominant in the part of Transylvania where they live.

The rate of assimilation is the same as for religion, 0.2% per month. As mentioned, the Promote National Values decree can be used to double this rate on a per-state basis. In addition, a Public School System will provide an increased assimilation rate of +12.5% per investment level, representing perhaps a less overt approach to indoctrination than their religious counterparts. With maximum effort, this means you can assimilate half of a minority population in about 18 years.

northgermanprotestantassimilation.png

I’ll end on a small design note. While our primary motivation while developing these mechanics was to provide a logical and believable simulation, a nice side effect of the asymmetry between conversion and assimilation is that there’s no way to benefit from both without an asymmetry in your laws as well. An inclusive, accepting, discrimination-free society won’t also become religiously homogeneous over time, nor will an oppressive, xenophobic country be able to assimilate their cultural minorities just by waiting them out while throwing resources at integrating them. Culture-wise, Pops need to be either accepted or harshly dealt with, now or in the future. Being accepting of all faiths today means there will be problems if you backtrack in the future. There is no one-size-fits-all strategy for dealing with heterogeneous populations.

There are of course a few good examples of countries that already start out with asymmetrical Citizenship and Church and State laws. The Ottoman Empire, home to a lot of cultural and religious minorities, has fairly lenient Citizenship Laws but zero separation of Church and State. As a result they will initially have a lot of both assimilation and conversion, and increasing the rate of those further might be one way for them to try to minimize Turmoil due to discrimination long-term. Meanwhile, the United States has total separation of Church and State (zero religious conversion, but no religious discrimination either) but Racial Segregation laws that cause considerable population segments to be discriminated against, particularly Indigenous- and African-American. Since none of these populations will ever be assimilating unless the Citizenship policy changes, this problem will not just go away on its own. Either the United States changes course legally, or they will have to continue dealing with trouble caused by the oppression of these minorities for the following century.

That’s all for this week! Like I hinted above, next week Martin will get into how Unifications work in Victoria 3, which I for one am very excited about!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 168Like
  • 48Love
  • 21
  • 19
  • 15
Reactions:

commissar roach

Corporal
Community Ambassador
94 Badges
May 27, 2011
38
1.146
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Impire
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Empire of Sin - Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
This comment has been reserved by the community team to gather up dev responses for ease of reading.

LucasG21 said:
How do discrimination laws work if you manage to gain more than one primary culture?

Is the trait-check based on the original primary culture only, or will the other primary culture's traits be counted as well?
All primary culture's traits are counted in the case of multiple primary cultures.

LucasG21 said:
Also, I hope Promote National Values will make sure that pops convert to the official religion rather than any accepted religion: it makes little sense for the Protestant, Freedom of Conscience UK givernment to actively advocate conversion to Catholicism, for example.
It doesn't in the current build, but we plan to make that the correct behavior under that Decree, yeah.

Voigt said:
So there is no way to have a forceful Germanisation/Russification of for example the Polish or Baltc Lands, since the pops there are in their homelands, and will never ever assimilate?
I can understand, that this would happen much slower, but eventually it should happen.

So for example you said currently without modifiers after 30 years 1/2 of the pop would convert to your religion and you can speed it up. So why not have it like 120 years without modifiers for assimilation in homelands, and 60 years with modifiers that in the short term anger the people (school only in your language, streetsigns in your language and so on) to assimilate 1/2 of the people. Maybe even slower than that.

But I dislike an outright block.
We're looking into this, but we didn't want this to be the behavior of natural, passive assimilation - there are numerous examples of minorities who have retained their cultural identity in nations hostile to them for hundreds of years. Rather, as you say, this should be the result of forceful, active assimilation on part of the state. But we also do not want forceful, active assimilation to be the primary means of engaging with the assimilation mechanic, since this counteracts some of the core design principles I outlined in the DD. But stay tuned on this topic.

Voigt said:
Also a question about Shinto in Japan, what religious group are they, if Japan goes for Freedom of Conscience. Is there any other religion in their group, or are they grouped with Buddhism? Or will State-Shinto not be a thing, and Japan will always stay Buddhist as their state religion?
Shintoism are not grouped in with any other religion, so in countries with Shinto (or Hinduism, or Judaism, or Animism (which, as an aside from some other comments here, II concur is much too broad - hoping to represent the diversity among animist religions better sometime post-release)) as a state religion there is no difference between State Religion and Freedom of Conscience laws.

FinesseVult said:
Can minorities assimilate into other minority cultures? For example will Africans brought to Cuba through the Slave Trade assimilate into Afro-Caribeno?
Not currently, but this is actually on our list of things to at least try out - might not be prior to release, though.

magriboy0750 said:
can the assimilation and conversion base rate be modded outside of defines and decrees,with temporary event country or state modifiers for example?
The base rate is a define that you can change, and on top of that you can add other modifiers on country- or state-level, or on any database type that applies modifiers on that level. So you can make Laws affect it, Decrees, Technology, even Ruler or Interest Group traits, among others. Even buildings can apply modifiers to their states, so you could mod in a Clockwork Orange-style re-education center building if you wanted. And of course you can apply all those modifiers via events as well.

Sawaiki2 said:
Out of curiosity, is it possible to mod:
1) A country to have multiple national religions (in general, and specifically without breaking this system)
2) A third trait (say, language - or maybe magic in a fantasy conversion mod) which also follows some sort of assimilation rules?
Countries cannot have more than 1 national religion, though that's only because we haven't seen a need for it in vanilla. We may add support for more if only for mods. As for traits, cultures and religions can have as many as they like, though only one major/heritage trait each.

AHumpierRogue said:
So Italians(and Irish, and Greeks, etc.) and any other "white" Europeans won't be discriminated against in America? Please reconsider the approach here, to imply that Italians faced no discrimination during this era is ridiculous. There was a significant portion of northern Europeans(and northern Italians, for that matter) who considered (esp. southern, though not exclusively) Italians to not be "white" like the rest of them, and tbh white basically meant Northern European at the time to many people in America. Additionally, as has been mentioned above Catholics and Protestants were definitely not singing kumbaya and dancing into the sunset in this era either.

At the very least heritages need to be somewhat more granular with north european and south european being separate for example.
At the moment our system is designed to primarily represent legislated discrimination, not systemic interpersonal discrimination Pops may experience by being minorities. We're going to look into this more in the future because we would like to represent for example the American dynamics you're referring to, but we also didn't want a system whereby you could pass a law to make everyone in your country suddenly get along. Instead, assume we are not currently modeling interpersonal discrimination other than indirectly via Turmoil.

sbadkins4 said:
Can you take actions to remove a cultural homeland over time? For example, if you were Japan, and conquered Korea, could you somehow still assimilate Koreans culturally, as was attempted historically?
A cultural homeland is defined as a region that Pops of a certain culture consider to be their homeland, so another country cannot remove that designation for as long as there exists Pops of that culture (and if they don't, the homeland has no effect, naturally). Mechanics for adding or removing homelands was something we discarded quite early on in development due to the timespan of the game - a long-term action could not take longer than 10-20 years to carry out in order to have any effect on your campaign, and that's not enough time to effect cultural shifts that major.
 
Last edited:
  • 15Like
  • 9
  • 1Love
  • 1Haha
Reactions:

LucasG21

Captain
79 Badges
Feb 23, 2017
318
1.866
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Semper Fi
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Empire of Sin - Premium Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Prison Architect
How do discrimination laws work if you manage to gain more than one primary culture?

Is the trait-check based on the original primary culture only, or will the other primary culture's traits be counted as well?

Also, I hope Promote National Values will make sure that pops convert to the official religion rather than any accepted religion: it makes little sense for the Protestant, Freedom of Conscience UK givernment to actively advocate conversion to Catholicism, for example.
 
Last edited:
  • 14
Reactions:

magriboy0750

Colonel
89 Badges
Jun 27, 2018
1.025
551
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
Good evening,great dd and like the new mechanics.It is logic for the culture conversion that pop should already be of an accepted culture.Definitely make sense.Question,though,can the assimilation and conversion base rate be modded outside of defines and decrees,with temporary event country or state modifiers for example?
Thanks for any replies about this.
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:

WeissRaben

Gian Galeazzo Visconti #1 Fanboy.
92 Badges
Sep 29, 2008
6.861
4.838
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
Meanwhile, the United States has total separation of Church and State (zero religious conversion, but no religious discrimination either)​
Mmmmmh. But should it, really? There was a lot of discrimination in places, against for example Catholics.
 
  • 45
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Reinou

Corporal
8 Badges
Dec 14, 2010
39
71
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Magicka
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
I don't understand. What's the point of assimilation if you can only assimilate already accepted cultures? What's the difference between accepted and assimilated pops?
 
  • 31
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Al-Khalidi

Colonel
1 Badges
Sep 23, 2020
812
5.703
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
Happy Thursday! Today our topic returns to Pop mechanics, with a discussion around some of the finer details on how Pops may change their religion and culture over time depending on your nation’s legal system. The mechanics themselves are quite straightforward, but as always in Victoria 3, the applications of them can have quite different outcomes in different situations.

Let’s begin by reviewing the mechanics around Discrimination, since this will be important later in the discussion. We’ve already talked about most of this in other dev diaries but some details here may be new.
Discriminated Pops have barely any Political Strength and cannot vote. This means the only way they can impact your country’s politics is by agitating for change through Political Movements, or by starting a civil war for self-rule through a Cultural Secession. In addition to being hamstrung politically, they also get paid substantially less than their non-discriminated counterparts, have a harder time developing Qualifications for certain Professions, and their presence in your country is a potential source of radicalism and Turmoil.

Whether a Pop is discriminated against or accepted depends on who they are, the national identity of the country they live in, and the laws of that country. Both culture and religion are potential reasons for discrimination, and these are controlled by different laws. Your Citizenship laws determine which Pops are discriminated against on the basis of their culture, while your Church and State laws determine which forms of worship are considered acceptable in your country. To be considered non-discriminated by these laws, Pops must pass a more or less stringent selection criteria based on how much they differ from the primary culture(s) and state religion in the country.

For example, under the Racial Segregation Citizenship law, only Pops whose culture’s heritage trait matches that of their primary cultures heritage trait will be accepted. The heritage trait indicates which region of the world the culture originates from (e.g. European, African, Indigenous American), and under this law that is the only thing that matters - whether the Pops speak the same language, or are both transplants in the New World, is unimportant in determining their status. By contrast, under Cultural Exclusion, any similarity between a Pop’s culture and one of the primary ones qualifies them as equal under the law.

The total set of options are:

Ethnostate: only Pops of primary cultures are accepted
National Supremacy: Pops whose cultures share both heritage and another trait are accepted
Racial Segregation: Pops of the same heritage are accepted
Cultural Exclusion: Pops whose cultures share any similarities are accepted
Multiculturalism: no cultures are discriminated against

State Religion: only Pops who adhere to the state religion are accepted
Freedom of Conscience: Pops who adhere to a religion in the same family as the state religion are accepted (e.g. any branch of Christianity, any form of Buddhist)
Total Separation: no religions are discriminated against

The practical impact of these laws therefore depends on what the state religion and primary cultures of your country are, as well as who actually lives in your country. An Ethnostate operates no differently in practice than a Multicultural state if only Pops of primary cultures live there. Since Pops are unlikely to mass migrate to your country if they’d be oppressed there once they arrived, until you expand your borders and populace by force you may not see a practical difference (except for a curious lack of immigrants). But if you were to form a Customs Union with a poorer neighbor, resulting in a lot of economic migration within the market to your country, you might have to deal with substantial political strife until you take steps to loosen up your Citizenship laws. If the option exists for you, as an alternative you might consider attempting to unify your nations instead (which we’ll learn more about next week) in order to accept both cultures as “primary”.

Alright, now that we’ve cleared up how countries can adapt to the Pops, we will consider how Pops might adapt to their country.

First let’s tackle Religious Conversion. Pops who are discriminated against on the basis of their religion will always be in the process of converting to an accepted religion. The religion they convert to is not necessarily the state religion, though - it could be any accepted religion that is dominant in the state where they live. An Indigenous American following an Animist religion in a United States with Freedom of Conscience instead of Total Separation is eventually going to convert to some form of Christianity to avoid religious persecution, but if they live in a Nebraska that has been settled by predominantly Catholic rather than Protestant Pops, they would convert to Catholicism even though Protestantism is the dominant religion in the nation as a whole.

Pops convert at a percentage-based rate, currently set to a base of 0.2% / month (as usual, numbers such as these are subject to balancing and change before release, and are always moddable). A percentage-based conversion rate naturally means a diminishing number of actual converts over time, so at this rate it would take almost 30 years for ½ of your discriminated population to convert. If you find this rate too ponderous for your strategic goals, you have two primary tools at your disposal to speed it up.

The Religious School System law + institution combination increases this rate by +20% per investment level, up to a potential maximum of +100% (i.e. twice the speed). It also increases the Education Access of Pops overall and increases the Clout of the Devout Interest Group.

The other method is the Promote National Values decree. Like all decrees, it is issued in a certain state and costs Authority for each state it is issued in, so in a larger country you will have to focus your efforts. Promote National Values doubles the rate of both conversion and assimilation.

Using a combination of both methods, you could speed up religious conversion such that ½ of a minority population can be converted to an accepted religion within the span of a 10 years. Of course, your school system only extends to incorporated states, so if you’re trying to mass convert Pops in conquered land or colonies you will have to do so by decree - or embark on the often lengthy and painstaking process of incorporating a part of the world that’s culturally alien to your country.

This leads us to cultural assimilation. The conditions for assimilation are a little more complex than conversion, and in some ways operate by the reverse logic. In order to start assimilating, a Pop must already be culturally accepted. After all, if they can’t get citizenship, can’t vote, can’t participate in politics, can’t get paid a fair wage on the basis of who they are, there simply is no way for them to assimilate - by which we mean, integrate themselves into a primary culture such that they are both accepted as such by others and genuinely consider themselves part of that culture. Renouncing one’s religious beliefs and practices can be a very practical and concrete choice, but adopting and being adopted by a different culture is not a utilitarian decision.

In addition, Pops will never change culture if they live in a state they consider their Homeland. A Franco-Canadian in Ontario might over time adopt the ways and tongue of their Anglo-Canadian neighbors, but a Franco-Canadian who resides in Quebec?! Plutôt mourir!

(And of course, if a confederated Canada has been created with both Anglo- and Franco-Canadian as primary cultures, none of those types of Pops would be changing cultures in the first place.)

If a Pop should be assimilating, the culture they will be assimilating into will always be a primary culture. This is because, again, this is not a practical decision that’s just up to the Pop in question, but a two-way-street of assimilation into the dominant national identity. In the case of countries with multiple primary cultures, the one selected will be the Homeland of the state the Pop lives in, or in case none or several apply, the dominant one among Pops who already live there. A Czech Pop living in a unified Germany (North + South German) in the state of Silesia (North German and Polish Homelands) will assimilate into the North German culture; if they lived in Bavaria they would be assimilating into the South German culture; and if they lived in Bohemia they would not assimilate at all, since Bohemia is a not only a South German but also a Czech Homeland. If this Pop instead lived in Transylvania (with both Hungarian and Romanian primary cultures and Homelands), they would be assimilating into whichever of those cultures is more dominant in the part of Transylvania where they live.

The rate of assimilation is the same as for religion, 0.2% per month. As mentioned, the Promote National Values decree can be used to double this rate on a per-state basis. In addition, a Public School System will provide an increased assimilation rate of +12.5% per investment level, representing perhaps a less overt approach to indoctrination than their religious counterparts. With maximum effort, this means you can assimilate half of a minority population in about 18 years.

I’ll end on a small design note. While our primary motivation while developing these mechanics was to provide a logical and believable simulation, a nice side effect of the asymmetry between conversion and assimilation is that there’s no way to benefit from both without an asymmetry in your laws as well. An inclusive, accepting, discrimination-free society won’t also become religiously homogeneous over time, nor will an oppressive, xenophobic country be able to assimilate their cultural minorities just by waiting them out while throwing resources at integrating them. Culture-wise, Pops need to be either accepted or harshly dealt with, now or in the future. Being accepting of all faiths today means there will be problems if you backtrack in the future. There is no one-size-fits-all strategy for dealing with heterogeneous populations.

There are of course a few good examples of countries that already start out with asymmetrical Citizenship and Church and State laws. The Ottoman Empire, home to a lot of cultural and religious minorities, has fairly lenient Citizenship Laws but zero separation of Church and State. As a result they will initially have a lot of both assimilation and conversion, and increasing the rate of those further might be one way for them to try to minimize Turmoil due to discrimination long-term. Meanwhile, the United States has total separation of Church and State (zero religious conversion, but no religious discrimination either) but Racial Segregation laws that cause considerable population segments to be discriminated against, particularly Indigenous- and African-American. Since none of these populations will ever be assimilating unless the Citizenship policy changes, this problem will not just go away on its own. Either the United States changes course legally, or they will have to continue dealing with trouble caused by the oppression of these minorities for the following century.

That’s all for this week! Like I hinted above, next week Martin will get into how Unifications work in Victoria 3, which I for one am very excited about!
That all sounds very lovely! It feels amazing to have so much more agency in those things than in vic2! So do I understand right, with full religious schools and promoting national values Ottomans can convert half of Balkan christians to islam within a bit more than a decade? Looks a bit fast, but I bet doing this effort effectively will require significant resources invested
 
  • 12Like
  • 1
Reactions:

PeterIsMyName

Recruit
80 Badges
May 16, 2017
7
201
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Dungeonland
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris
Enjoyed the diary as a whole. I am rather dissapointed to see that you are still using the "Animist" name for Native Americans, and presumably also other indiginous peoples, like Aboriginies. With this framing, there would be 0 religious tension between a Paupan native and a Cherokee nation, even if that nation had an enforced state religion. Having at least reigional religions for natives (Such as one for Polynesian peoples, one for North American Natives, etc) would add far more flavor, avoid those weird circumstances, as well as just being alot less historically inaccurate and eurocentric.
 
  • 43
  • 4Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

NilsFabian

Excited for Vicky3
106 Badges
Oct 24, 2015
936
1.918
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Surviving Mars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Prison Architect
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Emperor"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • PDXCon 2019 "Emperor"
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
So the french Quebecois will stay forever?
Or even more important Prussian Germany can never free itself from the Bavarian culture.
 
  • 6
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:

MylesSCP

Major
49 Badges
Apr 16, 2012
573
1.653
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines
I kind of wish assimilation rate had some more modifiers than decrees and schooling, something like cultures/religions more closely related will assimilate quicker(IE, a protestant in a catholic nation with state religion will assimilate quicker than a buddist) but the systems seems to do what it needs to do well enough.
 
  • 12
  • 2Like
Reactions:

Voigt

General
64 Badges
Mar 15, 2012
2.081
2.313
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
So there is no way to have a forceful Germanisation/Russification of for example the Polish or Baltc Lands, since the pops there are in their homelands, and will never ever assimilate?
I can understand, that this would happen much slower, but eventually it should happen.

So for example you said currently without modifiers after 30 years 1/2 of the pop would convert to your religion and you can speed it up. So why not have it like 120 years without modifiers for assimilation in homelands, and 60 years with modifiers that in the short term anger the people (school only in your language, streetsigns in your language and so on) to assimilate 1/2 of the people. Maybe even slower than that.

But I dislike an outright block.


Also a question about Shinto in Japan, what religious group are they, if Japan goes for Freedom of Conscience. Is there any other religion in their group, or are they grouped with Buddhism? Or will State-Shinto not be a thing, and Japan will always stay Buddhist as their state religion?
 
  • 56
  • 10Like
  • 2
  • 1Love
Reactions:

MylesSCP

Major
49 Badges
Apr 16, 2012
573
1.653
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines
Is there any interaction with Pops that is province-based?

My fear is the loss of detail compared to Vic2. I don’t read every DD, so it’s not clear for me yet
No, everything is state based. The only province interactions are during war where individual provinces get occupied and you have a create treaty port war goal which will create a 1 province treat port in a state.
 
  • 5
Reactions:

Liquid Ghost

Colonel
68 Badges
Sep 23, 2009
1.176
1.889
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
Uuh, we're getting to the stuff that could motivate eyebrow-raising and pearl-clutching.

Could you tell us which is the smallest ethnic minority represented in-game? Maybe a single Pop in some forgotten corner of the world.
 
  • 15
  • 2Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Sawaiki2

Private
71 Badges
Aug 13, 2020
20
79
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Out of curiosity, is it possible to mod:
1) A country to have multiple national religions (in general, and specifically without breaking this system)
2) A third trait (say, language - or maybe magic in a fantasy conversion mod) which also follows some sort of assimilation rules?
 
  • 9
  • 1Like
Reactions:

King Doom and Ice Cream

Corporal
58 Badges
Feb 26, 2018
33
166
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Majesty 2
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
I believe an earlier dd explained that discrimation is discrimination by the state, not by other pops. Which I guess makes sense for the base game but with such a binary system (pops are either discriminated or not) what is the point of assimilation? If pops could be tollerated but not completed accepted, there would be some purpose to it. It also makes more sense historically, because i dont believe enacting multiculturalism typically inmidiatly solved racism and equal opportunity for all...

[Deleted reference to modern day situation]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 18
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:

asosa

Sergeant
65 Badges
Oct 25, 2019
57
119
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • King Arthur II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
So one way to get the concept of ottomanism to reality and eliminate (or, at least, minimize) the endless nationalist problems the ottoman empire had would be to have the multiculturalism reform? Or could we get some of the inner cultures of the empire as primary (like albanian, greek, serbian...)? And how would a pop of an accepted religion but non accepted culture be treated (like a sunni albanian pop in the ottoman empire)?
 
  • 4Like
Reactions: