• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Dev Diary #43 - The American Civil War

16_9.jpg

Hello folks, welcome to another dev diary for Victoria 3! This week we're going to talk about the American Civil War, a dark period in the history of the United States.

Turmoil had been building under the surface of the United States for decades prior to the outbreak of the Civil War, with tension growing increasingly violent particularly in the 1850s. In 1861, several states voted to secede from the Union, and established the Confederate States of America. The Union and the Confederacy fought for four years, to 1865. After the surrender of the CSA, the Union reincorporated the states of the former Confederacy and initiated an era generally known as Reconstruction, a period of ambition, domestic unrest, and, ultimately, a failure to complete some of the most significant social reforms instigated in the wake of the CSA's defeat. The efforts and failures of Reconstruction resulted in Jim Crow laws and the promise of racial equality becoming a generations-long struggle that has carried on well past the end of the Victorian era.

Let's get something established first before we dive into the game: Slavery is central to the Civil War. The authors of secession did not dance around this point. The institution of slavery was singled out time and time again by the people seceding from the Union in their reasons for secession, during their debates over secession, and then throughout the Civil War itself. After the war, rhetoric shifted as the Lost Cause myth developed, but before and during the war slavery was declared as a central element in the rebellion time and time again.

This interpretation of history is built on solid foundations with ample evidence. Victoria 3 uses this approach as its basis for the American Civil War.

Antebellum America's unrest is centered around slavery.
DD43 01.png

The United States of America begins the game with a Journal Entry already underway. In the first years of the game, and historically, the 1830s were already rife with national debate over the issue of slavery, although violence was only just beginning to escalate. At this point on the national level, all the United States can try to do is balance the pressures of abolitionists and pro-slavery advocates, and either limit escalation or come down firmly on the side of one camp or another.

Even a policy of appeasement and reconciliation will not stop rising tensions entirely. Some events will ratchet up tensions regardless of whatever option is chosen; the main difference in choices is determining who will become more mad and who will be more mollified by ensuing government actions.

Iowa has become the front line in the fight over slavery, and will be struck with unrest regardless of the choice picked.
DD43 02.png

As tensions rise, violence will rise, and events will become more and more polarizing. Early events may talk about a single senator's words, or a single death in a city, but as the issue festers, things will just get worse and worse until something gives way. Newspaper debates will turn into arguments on the floor of the Senate, then those arguments will turn into canings, and people will stop campaigning with pamphlets and start campaigning with paramilitaries.

Attempts to ban slavery are more likely to create a reactionary movement in the United States.
DD43 03.png

The most straightforward way to end the debate over slavery may be to just end it, but this carries enormous risks - political movements may emerge in reaction to the potential passage of these laws. Of course, not banning slavery may also lead to a movement emerging explicitly agitating for the abolition of slavery, and that has its own set of challenges.

Triggering the Civil War early caused a slightly different set of states to secede. Florida simply didn't have enough pro-slavery supporters here to join the pre-war movement that formed the basis of the CSA.
DD43 04.png

This is where we've decided to engage with our own revolution mechanics in order to create a more dynamic American Civil War. If the Slavery Debate Journal Entry is active when a revolution over slavery erupts, the revolutionary government will turn into a secessionist government. Secession is determined by what states join the radicalized movements for preserving slavery or banning slavery, which means the strength of the secessionist government will vary depending on which IGs align themselves with the radicalized movement prior to the outbreak of revolution. If pro-slavery Interest Groups had been empowered again and again prior to their radicalization and revolution, then secessionists will control a large number of states, but if those same Interest Groups had been suppressed and their influence limited time and time again, then their government will be far smaller when war breaks out.

Of course there's a train-centered event.
DD43 05.png

The war itself has its own incidents that can complicate the pursuit of victory or give some unique opportunities. Raiders will jump back and forth across the border, causing chaos, while Unionist sympathizers in secessionist-held areas and secessionist sympathizers in Union-held areas will challenge the authority of local governments as long as the war still burns. If the secessionists are pro-slavery but the Union has not finished enacting abolition yet, the country will have a special change to radically hasten the change in law through a certain proclamation.

The war itself plays out the same way

If the secessionists win, then… the secessionists win, and a new country is established in North America. A Union victory, however, will lead to Reconstruction.

Reconstruction varies depending on how the Civil War went.
DD43 06.png

Reconstruction is a long and varied process. Depending on who fought, what laws were passed, and the general shape of the United States at war's end, different journal entries will spawn. Establishing the Freedmen's Bureau and pursuing the cause of equality only makes sense if you fought against slavery. Reconciling the South only makes sense if the South was the part of the country that rebelled. Conversely, it's possible to end up with multiple goals for Reconstruction that end up conflicting.

Escalating violence is still a threat, even after the Civil War comes and goes.
DD43 07.png

Reconstruction will be ugly. Historically, it wasn't a clean and smooth process, and in the game it's not a clean and smooth process. There was a struggle to balance the ambitions of Reconstruction against the resistance of a reactionary coalition that sought to restore their antebellum political power and impose a vision of racial supremacy upon society. Pursuing egalitarian measures will alienate these people and related groups, which may make governance more difficult and more expensive, while currying favor with them will undercut the foundations of Reconstruction and create another alienated population that will have to be contended with for the rest of the game. Every step is fraught with challenges to the government and to the welfare of the people; Reconstruction will be rough.

Frontier justice is a tricky thing.
DD43 08.png

Not all postwar turmoil will be right where the fighting happened. Knock-on effects of the Civil War will be felt across the nation, from the very center of government to the furthest tendrils of the frontier. It's up to you, the player, to decide how the country will face all these myriad challenges. What kind of America do you want to create?

How's that for something to stew on for a week? Next time, we're going to talk more about how you can fight battles, both in the American Civil War and with wars in general, with the one and only KaiserJohan!
 
  • 235Like
  • 88Love
  • 16
  • 14
  • 12
  • 3Haha
Reactions:

MfgLuckbot

Major
Mar 21, 2022
579
2.146
Will there be alternate pathes to solve the conflict? I read the DD as "if I placate the slave-owners th abolitionists will try to secede", does that mean a civil war is completely unavoidable or is it possible to solve the debate peacefully (If I succesfully ban slavery that's possible right?)
 
  • 1
Reactions:

AskingForIt138

Sergeant
45 Badges
May 21, 2021
85
566
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
This seems like a great way to simulate the American Civil War, with potential for things to change if the player deviates from the historical path. One question though: how will characters end up on each side? Will interest group trump state/federal loyalty?
 
  • 3
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:

arosenberger14

Major
73 Badges
Jun 22, 2011
587
2.830
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
Love this! Hopefully in the future this sort of level of detail for unrest and civil wars can be more dynamically added to general cases so that the US Civil War isn't the only one that feels so dynamic. You hinted that the player could choose to support either side in the lead up... if you manage to manipulate things such that the slave states retain their political majority and it's the abolitionist North that's increasingly upset over things like the fugitive slave act or expansionist wars in Latin America, is it possible to fight a "reverse civil war" against a secessionist North?
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:

neuroxcx1

Corporal
1 Badges
Apr 16, 2021
25
39
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
I like your work and I hope that victoria 3 comes out as well as possible, but speaking on behalf of the Spanish-speaking community that awaits your game, I would like you to please not refer to America as the United States America, is all the countries that are in it American continent is as if, for example, they only considered France as European and if a Swede was asked "hey, where are you from" and he answered, "Well, I'm European", the one who asked automatically said "ooo and maybe you live in paris or lyon", things like that, well, maybe they won't understand thanks to the fact that you mainly communicate with people from the United States or English, things like "American market" could be changed to "USA market" or things like that, and well, if you can't Change then, please, could you do it in the translation into Spanish and that in events or in the view of markets people from the United States do not put American or Americans , because in Spanish we have a demonym for people who live in the United States, it's "Estadounidence or estadounicences".
It's just that if it sounded a bit hateful or something like that, because that wasn't my intention, I just wanted to let you know thanks to the fact that being one of an American country and Consider or call the United States as America is ugly and feels ugly for the people who live in the america and is not part os USA.
Thank you for your attention and I hope you are well .

psd: sorry for my english Ñ.
 
  • 68
  • 10Like
  • 8
  • 7Haha
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:

vyshan

Retired Kaiserreich Developer
84 Badges
Mar 30, 2011
3.745
6.208
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Empire of Sin
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
I don't know if this has been noticed, but I noticed that West Virginia didn't secede, while Virginia did. They were both the same state at the time, and West Virginia should secede with Virginia, or stay in the Union with Virginia no matter what.
West Virginia in Vicky3 is IIRC from the maps its own state. But your suggestion isn't good because historically virginia seceeded while west virginia did not.
 
  • 26Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Mav12

Captain
110 Badges
Feb 20, 2011
462
675
24
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Pride of Nations
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Surviving Mars
Can abolitionists form a Free States of America analogue, or is a pro-abolitionist rebellion just another generic revolt?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

gela1212

custom luser title
97 Badges
May 11, 2008
3.129
288
  • Sengoku
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Lost Empire - Immortals
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • For The Glory
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I don't know if this has been noticed, but I noticed that West Virginia didn't secede, while Virginia did. They were both the same state at the time, and West Virginia should secede with Virginia, or stay in the Union with Virginia no matter what.

Er, I think I must be misunderstanding you? The entire reason West Virginia exists is because Virginia seceded and WV did not.
 
  • 26Like
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:

hazard151

Second Lieutenant
107 Badges
Jul 1, 2011
134
389
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Semper Fi
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • BATTLETECH
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Prison Architect
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
How flexible are the various Reconstruction entries?

I saw a Bleeding Iowa instead of a Bleeding Kansas, so there's clearly some flexibility in seeing which areas become major conflict points, but it'd be nice to see a a variety of potential political conflicts and multiple ways to resolve them. Or even avoid (part) of the civil war by programs like the government outright buying slaves, but which in game terms means switching industries from production methods permitting slaves to those that don't, if the game can handle that.

For that matter, I'd love to see a Journal entry as the matter heats up regarding the Underground Railroad and the ability to strengthen or weaken it.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

noblehunter

First Lieutenant
125 Badges
Mar 18, 2005
286
952
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Magicka
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Can the war just end in white peace where neither side can annex the other one?
Presumably. The other question is: will the Union and Confederacy be locked into repeated wars as the Union attempts to reconquer its lost cores. Victoria 2 did not have a good post-war status quo if the North lost the Civil War.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:

A Mighty Fish

Private
46 Badges
Apr 21, 2021
19
124
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
This sounds incredible! I'm starting to wonder what would happen if one sided with the confederacy and ceded and won, but then sided with a slavery revolt like in Haiti, and the confederate states became under the control of the slave revolt! Just speculating but does anyone think this could be a possible situation? Also someone else will have likely asked this but in terms of the journal entry resulting in a revolution turning into a succession, I suppose this could appear anywhere in theory if there was a journal entry in another country? Really shows the versatility of the journal, some great design there!
 

Askorti

Major
13 Badges
Oct 13, 2018
772
3.594
I'm mildy disappointed that it appears that just like in Vic2, by default it's the slavers who secede. I think it could be an interesting reversal, if it was instead the abolitionists who could secede if the pre-civil war atmosphere supports it.
 
  • 20
  • 16Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

$ilent_$trider

Prince of Trivia
82 Badges
Mar 13, 2010
1.782
3.148
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Impire
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 2
I really like the explanation of how Reconstruction can go. Hopefully, the devs vision and actual implementation will match, or closely match.
I wonder, is there a Reconstruction option for the government to send freed slaves to Africa?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Jamaican Castle

Lt. General
12 Badges
Jan 27, 2019
1.361
5.197
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
Can you elaborate on what mechanics the Civil War shares with cultural secessions? In the previous dev diary you described it as a mixture of political revolution and secession but all of the mechanics presented here seem to belong to the former. For example, the cultural axis of Yankee vs. Dixie pops isn't touched on, and you don't say whether it's possible for the war to end in white peace (possible for secession, impossible for revolution).

Also, to what extent are the events described here unique to the ACW? Railway sabotage for instance could be common to rebellions in general, or even wars in general, without really being particular to the ACW. Will we see those types of events pop up elsewhere or only during this one conflict?

Will states being slave or free actually change the pop makeup of those states? Can you have slave labor disallowed in buildings on a state-by-state basis?
According to DD#15, yes.

Legacy Slavery: This law is meant to represent countries that have made slave trade illegal but not abolished it altogether, most notably the United States of America. Under Legacy Slavery, the country is divided into Free States and Slave States. In Free States, slavery is illegal and everything functions exactly as if the country had the Slavery Abolished law, while Slave States function as though they had the Slave Trade law with the notable exception that new slaves cannot be imported from abroad.

Will there be alternate pathes to solve the conflict? I read the DD as "if I placate the slave-owners th abolitionists will try to secede", does that mean a civil war is completely unavoidable or is it possible to solve the debate peacefully (If I succesfully ban slavery that's possible right?)
In earlier DDs, the general description was that it's possible but very difficult. You'd have to put off the war starting as long as possible, while taking political steps to marginalize the slaveholders, and doing so slowly enough that they don't just revolt over your other law changes.

Which brings up an interesting aside: in history, secession (and potentially the Civil War) was almost sparked by a debate over tariffs and trade law. If there's a similar flashpoint in-game and you end up having a rebellion on some other point that is important to the southern landholders (economic law, or maybe labor laws, for instance?), will the game merge that with the slavery question or leave them as separate rebel sentiments?
 
  • 4Like
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:

FryFroFella

First Lieutenant
66 Badges
May 30, 2015
251
1.228
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Victoria 2
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
will the confederacy be able to spawn with different ideologies like socialism to represent fitzhughism?
will there be a revolt against an america that refuses to stop the encroachment of slavery?
Seems like a huge stretch to call Fitzhugh socialist. He only agreed with their opposition to industrial capitalism, as far as relation to socialism went his ideology wasnt any closer than standard planter quasi-feudalistic paternalism. About as socialist as a duke arguing that they consider the peasants their children and it would be cruel to let them go compete to sell their labor on the market.
 
Last edited:
  • 14Like
  • 1
Reactions:

IsaacCAT

Field Marshal
141 Badges
Oct 24, 2018
3.390
7.653
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
This DD is a description of a railroad for historic events. There is a long debate as how much this should be enforced in a simulation game. I am not decided about what is better, however I would like to have the option to rewrite history.

I was under the impression than many things that happened in the Victorian times where going to be present in the game if some conditions were fulfilled but in this case it seems it is a complete railroad to the US civil war, isn't it?

Wolfieguy has made a good question:

Is it possible to avoid the Civil War altogether?
 
  • 21
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Status
Not open for further replies.