• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Greetings, fellow crusaders!

In this Dev Diary we’ll give a brief insight in how the CK2 QA team works and functions.

The team consists of myself (Servancour), PeterSkager, rageair and Leo Larsson. I’ve been here the longest and have been at Paradox for close to two years now, and so far it’s been a blast! We’re a close-knit team and work very well together, each and every one specializing in different types of gameplay.

As a team, we work very closely with the developers and attend all sorts of meetings to ensure that we stay up to date with the game. When you work with QA you need to know almost everything about the game, from overarching design to the smaller details of specific features. It’s challenging but also very rewarding.

While our primary responsibility may be to test the game, it’s not the only one. Many believe that the life of a QA only consists of reporting bugs, but it’s actually much more than that. We’re responsible for ensuring the overall quality of the product, by providing constant feedback, voice concerns where needed, comment on design and suggest improvements in order to make the game both better and more accessible!

Something we do every now and then when there’s new features to test is to simply play the game in order to get a feel for how to play with them. We usually test a variety of different scenarios, with varying start dates and setups, where we play for anything between a few years to several centuries. Sometimes we play for just a few hours, other times we have the campaigns going over the course of a few days, all while we gather feedback and impressions to the developers. This type of testing allows us to get a more accurate representation on how the game actually plays to find issues you wouldn’t find in a few minutes of playtime. Sometimes we even start using the same scenario just to see how far we can deviate from each other as we use very different playstyles. We believe that having many eyes on the same problem yield the best results.

We’re extremely passionate about the game. Each and every one of us here at the CK2 QA team has played the game for anything between a few hundred to several thousand hours and most of it has been purely for our own enjoyment. I myself play the game regularly outside of work and in my latest campaign I started off as Charlemagne himself, culture switched to German and created the Holy Roman Empire! I’m almost done with it though, with just the last hundred years or so left before the end date. My current ruler is Kaiserin Amalia “The Hammer”, ruling over Europe with an iron fist!

This passion also motivates us to not only ensure that the game performs well from a professional standpoint, but also from the perspective of a player. This causes us to often go above and beyond our ordinary tasks! We at QA has, on occasion, contributed with content to the game. Often to ensure that each and every part of the game feels like a quality experience. For example; we’ve created events to enhance certain aspects of the game (see the Sky Burial and Master Wrestling event chains) and even created art in the form of the Nomadic CoA’s introduced in Horse Lords.

I hope you gained some useful insight in how we approach CK2 from the QA team, and that we work hard to give you, the fans, a product that you deserve. Since we at QA love quality of life improvements, I’ll wrap this up by showing you the following screenshot of a previous feature we are extending somewhat:

ck2_diary_screen.jpg
 
really scraping the bottom of the barrel here with these "dev" diaries

I disagree, I enjoy these insights into how Paradox and the teams work. I hope PDX continue with these kinds of dev diaries in between the ones revealing new features, etc. While I love the crunchy details about an upcoming feature, there are alot of other stuff that's interesting to read about.
 
  • 89
  • 7
Reactions:
How is it that you are allowed to keep your job after all the cheesy tactics are discovered by the players few hours after DLC release ?

Luckily people here understand things like math. If 10,000 people play for an undefined "few" hours, lets say 3, that is 30,000 hours of testing. For 4 QA working 8 hour days that would be ~2.5 years of testing. Which doesn't even consider that QA aren't testing the final version for the entire period, or that fixing one bug can reveal other bugs, unbalanced things, or exploits.
 
  • 79
  • 8
Reactions:
How is it that you are allowed to keep your job after all the cheesy tactics are discovered by the players few hours after DLC release ?

Because fixing one bug usually causes another and the Devs release the product on the announced day, no matter how many bugs remain to be taken care of.

If you do not have enough material for "proper" DDs you may commit not to have them weekly. If this is all about the timing of the announcement well, I would have started this series two weeks before the announcement itself.

How these weekly DD's came to be: people constantly complained about EU4 having weekly DDs but CK2 lacking them. Aka, people wanted DDs even though the Devs really did not have anything to write home about.
I actually doubt that CK2 Devs want this that much. Not everyone is Wiz, after all.

No offense, but I think it's BS that nomads have been thoroughly (or at all) tested for Horse Lords, when it's pretty clear from 1 hour of play that their retinues are overpoweringly broken, pillaging is tedious af and being able to accidentally settle when you just want to burn, because it's on the same button, is just bad.

I think quality over all has improved a lot, but things always come out way out of balance and stay that way for a long time. Seduction still isn't balanced (imho), and Hordes still melt everyone.

Testing =/= Fixing. QA team reports the bugs and problems, the Devs then fix them as they go on. When the release date gets close, development is halted and continued after release.
As far as Seduction and Hordes go, that's not the issue with QA and PDS is well aware of it. The problem here is HOW to fix it and how to fix it without causing another issue.

Not to mention, that Mongols don't even achieve anything. Seriously, they used to be really strong, then got progressively weaker which each patches, and I expected them to finally fix this in a nomad-centered DLC, but nope. I guess making the Mongols a threat in 2015 is too hard.

The problem is in how to represent this. Until HL, EVERYTHING leaving to Mongol Invasion happened off-screen but now the game needs to be able to properly represent the whole course of events through game mechanics. And that is much harder to properly achieve than just throwing in a railroading event.
And it does not help that the main reason for Mongol Horses invading Europe and Middle East was Gengis Khan. Had such a skilled leader not been born and achieved those accomplishments, Mongols might never have had become a threat of such caliber. Such unique events are much harder to represent in the game.
 
  • 34
  • 1
Reactions:
I like these dev diaries. It doesn't have always to be about new stuff. PDS already has 3 hype trains going on at full speed (Cossacks, HOI4, Stellaris). they'll probably delay a bit the 4th hype train so that there isn't too much overlap.
 
  • 31
  • 11
Reactions:
No offense, but I think it's BS that nomads have been thoroughly (or at all) tested for Horse Lords, when it's pretty clear from 1 hour of play that their retinues are overpoweringly broken, pillaging is tedious af and being able to accidentally settle when you just want to burn, because it's on the same button, is just bad.

I think quality over all has improved a lot, but things always come out way out of balance and stay that way for a long time. Seduction still isn't balanced (imho), and Hordes still melt everyone.
 
  • 22
  • 15
  • 2
Reactions:
Why would someone continue to maintain and pay for 4 QA, while releasing closed beta for around 100-200 people would be better choice(imo) ?

Quality of reported bugs is the main reason. Beta testers are great, but they aren't paid to test and most of the time they'll test stuff that is fun. There are exceptions of course and some beta testers amaze us with the work they put in.
Paradox relied almost solely on beta testers up until V2 release (and then only as limited time contractors), EU4 was the first releases (as far as I remember with a in house team of QA). I'd say that quality has gone up since EU3 and HOI3 releases. QA isn't the only reason, but it's definitely one of the major.
 
  • 11
  • 7
Reactions:
It does appear splitting with Ctrl click is coming to dynasty view that'll be cool.

really scraping the bottom of the barrel here with these "dev" diaries

I kind of agree with this actually. As much as I don't want to complain about my weekly crumbs, they are just crumbs. I understand that it is not in the best interest of any game developing company to just release all the details at once, to string us along and build hype. But the DLCs that you folks put out are not small you could spare a few more crumbs each week.
 
  • 13
  • 7
Reactions:
This seems like a good place for

Flanders and Aquitaine for France!
Can people just shut up about the Flanders issue,... I agree with your point, but I am getting sick of seeing it posted everywhere. It is about as annoying as the bloody china bandwagon!
 
  • 13
  • 12
Reactions:
Are you still doing the three DLC plan for 2015?
Sadly, no.
You can safely assume that we won't release two more expansions this year.
The dev diaries won't contain all that much about the expansion (or the patch released at the same time), until we're closer to announcing anything official.
If that bothers you, then feel free to consider these as non-dd:s and just random posts from the dev team. We won't take offense ;)

Are there topics that people would like us to have for these dd:s? If it's not related to the expansion/patch, we might consider putting it in.
 
  • 11
  • 1
Reactions:
Hmm, a realm's sub-dynasties are now visible for people of that realm? Neat, I guess.
Am I the only one actually really happy about this map mode? The dynasty map mode is one of the main ways I gauge success in my games, and it's always bothered me a little that I can't see the dynasties for vassals. A lot of games I'm not actually the top liege for a very long time, but my dynasty spreads insidiously throughout the realm's duchies. Finally being able to see this is a nice addition.
 
  • 12
Reactions:
Servancour,

I really appreciate you writing this. You started a solid foundation for a continuous feature column ... one which would really allow the average community member to understand what you do and the challenges you face day-in-and-dayout.

People who criticize these "non-game-play" diaries are not looking at the big-picture nor do they understand that the community has a wide spectrum of people interested in all aspects of this game not just a "oooo pretty picture" concern.

Knowledge is power and knowing the Q/A team and their SOP is key for the community at large helping finding and quashing bugs. We need more communication between everyone not less.

Everyone is not Wiz but we can all learn lessons from what he does. Yes, I am a Wiz fangirl - deal with it.
 
  • 12
Reactions:
Well, to be really honest QA gets the worst from the community by right. After all, their work is to not allow bugs and glitches meet community.

Not really.
QA can only inform the dev-team and producers about problems, they have no mandate to cancel or post-pone a game.
If someone is to blame it's either me or the producer (or anyone above us in the chain of command).
 
  • 10
  • 2
Reactions:
I mean, I love these insights about the inner workings of the Dev Team, but rather than publishing them all at once before announcing a new DLC and somehow spoiling hyped fans who were expecting a DD about new features, I would have released them more regularly outside periods not close to the announcement or release of a DLC.

If you do not have enough material for "proper" DDs you may commit not to have them weekly. If this is all about the timing of the announcement well, I would have started this series two weeks before the announcement itself.
 
  • 11
  • 3
Reactions:
They do exactly that. They actually asked for more beta-testers a few months ago.

Two things to add to aono's comments
1. Some 'obvious' bugs arent that obvious once you realise CK2's scope. Take the pagan reformation button going missing (on reload from memory). At the moment, there are broadly 7 groups with substantial different mechanics in the game (Catholic, Muslim, pagan/tribal, nomad, indian, merchant republic, ERE), 3 main starting dates (+ many more bookmarks), ways of life etc - you can't count on somebody playing x group, for long enough, and doing the necessary steps, and paying attention to x when there are a lot of other things that require attention too. Remember also that you dont see the bugs QA caught before it went live.
2. Its not a case of getting the 'final' product and wringing the bugs out of it for months. Bugs can be introduced in the process of fixing another bug (just check some of the notes from some of the hotfix patches for 'simple' fixes having unintended consequences), or balance or other changes don't work as intended.

BZ1Ky0BIYAAYsH_.png
 
  • 10
  • 1
Reactions: