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Dev Diary #38 – Trade Routes & Tariffs

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If money is the sinews of war, then trade is the lifeblood of nations and in no period is this truer than the Victorian Era. Victoria 3 takes place in a period of time where the nations of the world pushed this concept further than before, through a period of industrialization and growing interconnectivity of first homelands and colonies and then among nation-states themselves. The trade routes on the map connecting our nations became the fabric that underpins many of the understandings of our modern world today.

But what is trade? It may seem obvious to some but to better understand the systems we need to make sure we understand the foundations they are built upon. Thus, trade is understood to be the movement of goods between two markets as a means of commercial transaction so that the other party is effectively paid for their services. Trade is not conducted between businesses and/or nations but is instead conducted through their national markets and by proxy their trade centers. While this may not seem a meaningful distinction, the market and economy of a nation is not synonymous with its national government; while that government may attempt to influence the economy it does not always have an absolute degree of control over it. Thus the trade that goes on in your market is something that you can influence and encourage (or discourage if you like) but never fully control (unless you are the only nation in existence I guess?).

While trade takes place between national markets at the behest of players and AI, it is conducted in the trade centers of those respective countries. Trade centers function similarly to urban centers, talked about in a previous dev diary. These are not buildings that are constructed manually but develop as a result of their engaging in trade routes as they are representative of the many gray areas of industry that necessitate the collection and movement of goods.

If you were to create an import route of goods for your industries, a resulting level of trade centers would develop within your nation. While urban centers tend to develop where you have placed many industrial buildings, trade centers develop in the market capitals and the ports of your nation. While you cannot paint the placement of trace centers outright, you can influence their development by creating ports in states that are naturally suited to such, where infrastructure and pops are readily available to staff them.

Where there is a port and people, there is likely to be trade, and hopefully profit!
DD38 01.png

Yes, trade centers must be staffed. Goods do not just appear in one nation from the next but require the maintenance of bureaucrats, laborers, clerks, and the like to offload and onload cargo, take account of it, tax it, and move it forward. These are for the most part privately owned enterprises that normally have capitalists in charge, instead of government run services. Without pops staffing your trade centers you will find yourself unable to conduct trade in accordance with your aspirations but that shouldn’t be too hard to manage as trade centers have also been historically known to be centers of migration, the first stop of migrants both domestic and international seeking a better life and sometimes finding it.

All the goods moving to and from New York means it's easier for Pops to hitch a ride.
DD38 02.png

Trade centers collect revenue on both sides of the routes they manage, in relation to how many goods are moved and how much the routes affect the prices in their respective markets. This revenue is allocated to the employees and taxed by the same logic as any industry, so who makes money off your trade is related to your domestic policies in the same way as the rest of your economy.

While trade is something every nation can take a part of, how they affect trade in relation to conducting it efficiently, preventing it when it hurts them, or profiting off of it when they can is dependent upon its trade policies, which also dictate how a nation can utiize embargoes and tariffs to achieve such. Yes that’s right, I said tariffs, cue historical excitement of the fanbase.

Where at first there was one law category, now there are two!
DD38 03.png

We’ve done a little restructuring of the economic laws in Victoria 3 since we wrote the Law dev diary, where originally your economic system affected both your domestic and international situations. It has been broken into economic systems which now cover the domestic economy, and trade policy which covers your international endeavors. As such trade policy governs how you interact with a customs union, your ability to set embargoes and tariffs, as well as the general efficiency of your conducted trade.

The Trade Policy laws are broken down into the four categories of ideology relative to the time period which interact with each of the economic systems you can put into place domestically.
DD38 04.png

Embargos represent the ability of a national government to extend its influence in protecting its national market and subsequent interests. Most, if not all nations can engage in embargoing a good but their effectiveness of doing such is dependent upon the trade policy the national government is centered around. A government centered around the ideas of protectionism has an easier time implementing a more efficient embargo on goods vs those that are committed to a more mercantilism or free trade policy. Notice I said influence, not authority there? While it costs authority to enact taxes domestically it costs influence to place embargos as whether or not they are able to be enforced is dependent upon your ability to influence other nations to respect them. Refusing to make fair trade deals will strain your diplomatic corp.

Protectionism means that not only are embargoes easier to maintain, they are also more efficient.
DD38 05.png

And now for the potentially more controversial statement, embargoes are not absolute. Sure you may embargo trade of a specific good into your country but that’s not going to stop it outright, only hinder the ease of its trade. Another nation might try and continue to push goods into your country but it will certainly require more of an effort to facilitate such, it all depends. In history there’s certainly something we can agree upon, embargoing something, making it illegal, or hindering its trade reduces the flow of the good but does not stop it outright if there is a vested interest by another nation and a profit to be made.

Tariffs are the means where a national government extends its influence as an intermediary in the trade between national markets, if not for the means of protecting its national interests, to at the very least ensure it gets its fair share of the profits that such entails. Tariffs are set on both exports and imports leaving the national economy because yes the government is interested in its fair share and if it cannot get the revenue by means of a consumption tax it will find other means. The ratio of this tariff level is dependent on the trade policy set. A more mercantilist trade policy would seek to ensure exports exceed imports so tariffs on exports will undoubtedly be lower. Protectionism is equal in its ratio as it seeks to shelter the domestic economy from booming or busting on either side of the equation. Free Trade, well free trade cares not for tariffs and seeks to profit through other means.

While the laws set the tariff ratio of import/exports these can be customized further in the budget screen by setting their tax levels. Tax levels don’t just bring in revenues but offer incentives to your economic actors, your pops. Lower tariffs encourage trade while higher tariffs will hinder their efficiency because well if the nation is getting a bigger cut, how motivated can you expect the pop to be in engaging in such trade?

A higher tariff means minimizing the profit to be had by business and disincentivizing trade.
DD38 06.png

So how do treaty ports play into these systems, as they certainly existed during the time period? Treaty ports are a means to ensure that you have access to a national market despite such embargoes and tariffs. They are a wedge in the barriers to trade another nation may put up so the goods may be funneled out of the market. Treaty ports have the special function that they permit the bypassing of embargoes and tariffs set in land adjacent markets through trading. They are a more permanent means of opening the market to your access but in the same vein also require a more permanent investment. Since treaty ports are first and foremost ports they will certainly become trade centers and will require the infrastructure and staffing to function. As you invest in this profitable endeavor, be aware that you will need to protect such from the eyes of other imperialist nations who might seek to take it away from you.

At game start Portugal finds itself holding the Treaty Port of Macao, a very profitable trade endeavor, but will such profits attract the attention of greater powers?
DD38 07.png

How do Customs unions come into play here? If you recall from the previous developer diary, customs unions are an agreement between one or more nations where one nation agrees to subject itself to another's national market. By agreeing to subject your national market to another nation you are agreeing to take on the structure set into place by their economic system and policies. While you are still able to enact trade between that national market and another you lose the ability to set embargoes on specific goods and tariff policies across the market, though you do receive your contributing share of the profit of such tariffs. Sometimes this development can be beneficial, sometimes it can majorly hurt your national sources of income, as the previous dev diary goes to great length to summarize “it depends.”

And that's a bit about trade, tariffs, and more! I may not have succeeded in delivering a concise explanation this time but it's certainly a shorter one. Next week is going to be the Kaiser himself (Johan Jons) to talk about Shipping Lanes. I’ll let the fanbase craft their own conspiracy theories about whether or not we are being literal with that one.
 
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Svenska Super

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Aren't tariffs on exports a somewhat rare exception? Usually they are only paid on imports.
if you hold a monopoly over some goods on world market you can in this case benefit from taxing it more
or of course protect domestic market to prevent destabilisation due to absent of important goods which have a social security component like beer / coffee or modern day gasoline
 

Axe99

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Cheers for the DD Alastorn and the extra info from you and Wiz - I predict that enthusiasm futures for Vicky 3 went up with this DD :) My impressions of this are that it sounds very good, but it also sounds like quite a complex system that won't always work in ways players expect from the names of things, and hope that it's well explained in-game (both via tutorials and tooltips/clear UI) - and also that there are appropriate notifications for when a trade situation arises that as a player I would want to know about.

For a maritime-themed pic, I very much liked the reference to trade centres as migration avenues - that brings to mind the packet ships of the 19th century, which mixed cargo and passengers while trading, often across the Atlantic but also as far afield as Australia :)

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shoebird

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Treaty Ports can be demanded from anyone. There's also some Treaty Ports at the start of the game, like Gibraltar and Melilla.
Is that an adequate depiction of Gibraltar and Melilla (And Ceuta? or not Ceuta in Vic 3 again?). Melilla was not taken to open any market, was taken at the end of the 15th century and I don't think there was any trade treaty relating its conquest. Nor I think it allowed Spain to bypass any trade restriction to enter the Moroccan market, but not sure.

And Gibraltar had to go through the Spanish tariffs and embargoes. Of course, it facilitated smuggling, but my understanding is that trade ports allowed for legal trade.

What about Macau, is a trade port at game start? It was rented in the 16th to Portugal I think, but didn't turned into a colony until the end of the 19th century.

In any case, for what I know real trade ports where cities under Chinese control where British traders could operate without restrictions. I think one was Shanghai, there were others, but don't remember which ones. Hong Kong was under full British control, but didn't it have to go through Chinese tariffs and restrictions, because it was not under Chinese control?

I'm a bit confused with trade ports in the game. It feels like they have been designed to justify taking Hong Kong in a war to open Chinese market, and then generalized to other cases. But are just tangentially related to what real treaty ports were. Is this because places like Gibraltar and Hong Kong doesn't make sense militarily? You don't need a base close enough to operate your navy? So, their only justification is a commercial one.
 
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Can't wait to become the greatest arms dealer in the world, selling guns to both sides of conflicts and reaping the profits! This will definitely not blow up in my face later!
 
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I don't think I understand exactly. Does this mean that imports/exports are not automatic and are only done manually? Is the Victoria 3 trade system more similar to Imperator Rome than to Victoria II?

Treaty Ports can be demanded from anyone. There's also some Treaty Ports at the start of the game, like Gibraltar and Melilla.
Please Martin don't forget about Ceuta. It hurts me that it isn't represented in the map. Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron has the enclave represented. Victoria should have it too.
 
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armour_crafter

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I hope we can tariff individual goods differently, and raising tariffs doesn't mean automatically raising it for all goods.

I want to be able to have high tariffs on finished goods and low tariffs on raw materials and industrial goods
 
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DominusNovus

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I’m looking forward to playing a protectionist US and building a large customs union in the Western Hemisphere, basically ensuring that the resources of the New World stay in the New World - or that my economic empire gets its cut.
 
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Hammrtime

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I like the premise of the trade centers and trading as presented here from a gameplay prospective. Would be great to see tariffs have more depth.

So does this mean we choose which port/trade center our goods are imported to? Or are all Trade Center's trade routes amalgamated?
 
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VineFynn

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Is the money trading centres make offset by an increase in the price of the imported/exported goods? Or is it just magic money?
 

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While you are not wrong that it would be cool to utilize such features (maybe one day in the future) you are quoting mercantilist doctrine that is a bit early for the timeperiod.
Economic thoery tangent short: There are plenty of other ways in game to nourish your industrial base including subsidizes, encouraging consumption, and embargoing specific goods coming into your markets which are available to you. It might not be the exact level of detail you want this moment but it is there.
This combined, mercantilism can given the right ( extremely narrow or somewhat depending on the countries market-power especially demand power ) circumstances make economic sense ( see Most Krugmann Add-ons, or Merlitz add-ons, those that are not econometrically shot down specifically ), but it can make a lot of sense game-theoretically, as relative power can be far more important than absolute depending on underlying functions.


Is there any chance you guys are planning to add something that abstractly models IIT? Given that we have trade centres now, which is huge, IIT could be modeled via a myriad of ways now ( specifically abstractly modeled, so it doesn't clog the game ). Is it possible to mod modifiers to trade centres?
No, the AI doesn't just work on pure profit calculus. There's other factors that play into it as well, most importantly which economic strategy it's following. The important thing is that the AI is built with the intent that it should be able to predict opportunities instead of just being reactive - I'll go more into how this works in a later DD.
Does the AI have global information, including what is being built?
Can there be a game option to enable profit maximization ( this would be handy for modding ) or can you mod in economic strategies, so cost minimization and profit maximization can be added to tags?

Is there any chance you guys will post either algos or functions?

Since production methods are modable, how hard would it be to implement marginal productivity?
 
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dav77-b

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If money is the sinews of war, then trade is the lifeblood of nations and in no period is this truer than the Victorian Era. Victoria 3 takes place in a period of time where the nations of the world pushed this concept further than before, through a period of industrialization and growing interconnectivity of first homelands and colonies and then among nation-states themselves. The trade routes on the map connecting our nations became the fabric that underpins many of the understandings of our modern world today.

But what is trade? It may seem obvious to some but to better understand the systems we need to make sure we understand the foundations they are built upon. Thus, trade is understood to be the movement of goods between two markets as a means of commercial transaction so that the other party is effectively paid for their services. Trade is not conducted between businesses and/or nations but is instead conducted through their national markets and by proxy their trade centers. While this may not seem a meaningful distinction, the market and economy of a nation is not synonymous with its national government; while that government may attempt to influence the economy it does not always have an absolute degree of control over it. Thus the trade that goes on in your market is something that you can influence and encourage (or discourage if you like) but never fully control (unless you are the only nation in existence I guess?).

While trade takes place between national markets at the behest of players and AI, it is conducted in the trade centers of those respective countries. Trade centers function similarly to urban centers, talked about in a previous dev diary. These are not buildings that are constructed manually but develop as a result of their engaging in trade routes as they are representative of the many gray areas of industry that necessitate the collection and movement of goods.

If you were to create an import route of goods for your industries, a resulting level of trade centers would develop within your nation. While urban centers tend to develop where you have placed many industrial buildings, trade centers develop in the market capitals and the ports of your nation. While you cannot paint the placement of trace centers outright, you can influence their development by creating ports in states that are naturally suited to such, where infrastructure and pops are readily available to staff them.

Where there is a port and people, there is likely to be trade, and hopefully profit!
View attachment 819125
Yes, trade centers must be staffed. Goods do not just appear in one nation from the next but require the maintenance of bureaucrats, laborers, clerks, and the like to offload and onload cargo, take account of it, tax it, and move it forward. These are for the most part privately owned enterprises that normally have capitalists in charge, instead of government run services. Without pops staffing your trade centers you will find yourself unable to conduct trade in accordance with your aspirations but that shouldn’t be too hard to manage as trade centers have also been historically known to be centers of migration, the first stop of migrants both domestic and international seeking a better life and sometimes finding it.

All the goods moving to and from New York means it's easier for Pops to hitch a ride.
View attachment 819126
Trade centers collect revenue on both sides of the routes they manage, in relation to how many goods are moved and how much the routes affect the prices in their respective markets. This revenue is allocated to the employees and taxed by the same logic as any industry, so who makes money off your trade is related to your domestic policies in the same way as the rest of your economy.

While trade is something every nation can take a part of, how they affect trade in relation to conducting it efficiently, preventing it when it hurts them, or profiting off of it when they can is dependent upon its trade policies, which also dictate how a nation can utiize embargoes and tariffs to achieve such. Yes that’s right, I said tariffs, cue historical excitement of the fanbase.

Where at first there was one law category, now there are two!
View attachment 819127
We’ve done a little restructuring of the economic laws in Victoria 3 since we wrote the Law dev diary, where originally your economic system affected both your domestic and international situations. It has been broken into economic systems which now cover the domestic economy, and trade policy which covers your international endeavors. As such trade policy governs how you interact with a customs union, your ability to set embargoes and tariffs, as well as the general efficiency of your conducted trade.

The Trade Policy laws are broken down into the four categories of ideology relative to the time period which interact with each of the economic systems you can put into place domestically.
View attachment 819128
Embargos represent the ability of a national government to extend its influence in protecting its national market and subsequent interests. Most, if not all nations can engage in embargoing a good but their effectiveness of doing such is dependent upon the trade policy the national government is centered around. A government centered around the ideas of protectionism has an easier time implementing a more efficient embargo on goods vs those that are committed to a more mercantilism or free trade policy. Notice I said influence, not authority there? While it costs authority to enact taxes domestically it costs influence to place embargos as whether or not they are able to be enforced is dependent upon your ability to influence other nations to respect them. Refusing to make fair trade deals will strain your diplomatic corp.

Protectionism means that not only are embargoes easier to maintain, they are also more efficient.
View attachment 819134
And now for the potentially more controversial statement, embargoes are not absolute. Sure you may embargo trade of a specific good into your country but that’s not going to stop it outright, only hinder the ease of its trade. Another nation might try and continue to push goods into your country but it will certainly require more of an effort to facilitate such, it all depends. In history there’s certainly something we can agree upon, embargoing something, making it illegal, or hindering its trade reduces the flow of the good but does not stop it outright if there is a vested interest by another nation and a profit to be made.

Tariffs are the means where a national government extends its influence as an intermediary in the trade between national markets, if not for the means of protecting its national interests, to at the very least ensure it gets its fair share of the profits that such entails. Tariffs are set on both exports and imports leaving the national economy because yes the government is interested in its fair share and if it cannot get the revenue by means of a consumption tax it will find other means. The ratio of this tariff level is dependent on the trade policy set. A more mercantilist trade policy would seek to ensure exports exceed imports so tariffs on exports will undoubtedly be lower. Protectionism is equal in its ratio as it seeks to shelter the domestic economy from booming or busting on either side of the equation. Free Trade, well free trade cares not for tariffs and seeks to profit through other means.

While the laws set the tariff ratio of import/exports these can be customized further in the budget screen by setting their tax levels. Tax levels don’t just bring in revenues but offer incentives to your economic actors, your pops. Lower tariffs encourage trade while higher tariffs will hinder their efficiency because well if the nation is getting a bigger cut, how motivated can you expect the pop to be in engaging in such trade?

A higher tariff means minimizing the profit to be had by business and disincentivizing trade.
View attachment 819135
So how do treaty ports play into these systems, as they certainly existed during the time period? Treaty ports are a means to ensure that you have access to a national market despite such embargoes and tariffs. They are a wedge in the barriers to trade another nation may put up so the goods may be funneled out of the market. Treaty ports have the special function that they permit the bypassing of embargoes and tariffs set in land adjacent markets through trading. They are a more permanent means of opening the market to your access but in the same vein also require a more permanent investment. Since treaty ports are first and foremost ports they will certainly become trade centers and will require the infrastructure and staffing to function. As you invest in this profitable endeavor, be aware that you will need to protect such from the eyes of other imperialist nations who might seek to take it away from you.

At game start Portugal finds itself holding the Treaty Port of Macao, a very profitable trade endeavor, but will such profits attract the attention of greater powers?
View attachment 819136
How do Customs unions come into play here? If you recall from the previous developer diary, customs unions are an agreement between one or more nations where one nation agrees to subject itself to another's national market. By agreeing to subject your national market to another nation you are agreeing to take on the structure set into place by their economic system and policies. While you are still able to enact trade between that national market and another you lose the ability to set embargoes on specific goods and tariff policies across the market, though you do receive your contributing share of the profit of such tariffs. Sometimes this development can be beneficial, sometimes it can majorly hurt your national sources of income, as the previous dev diary goes to great length to summarize “it depends.”

And that's a bit about trade, tariffs, and more! I may not have succeeded in delivering a concise explanation this time but it's certainly a shorter one. Next week is going to be the Kaiser himself (Johan Jons) to talk about Shipping Lanes. I’ll let the fanbase craft their own conspiracy theories about whether or not we are being literal with that one.

Can we have an option to automatically set up profitable routes? These routes should be defined as "non-manual route" and also automatically stopped if unprofitable.

"Manual set up routes" however should not be affected by this.

Because I already see myself pausing the game every 10 minutes to check my trade routes.
 

kviiri

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Hold up, am I reading this right?

Treaty ports have the special function that they permit the bypassing of embargoes and tariffs set in land adjacent markets through trading.

Suppose a few decades into the game, the US has embargoed a good I want to export. I crafily demand a treaty port in Tijuana, Mexico, such that the port borders both the US and Mexico. Can I really bypass the embargo like this?
 
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Nicolas-

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There definitely needs to be the ability to embargo countries and set tariffs on specific goods, or this is going to be a major complaint after release.

It's just one of the most obvious expectations. I think if people realize they cant do it, they'll be disappointed.
 
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uleslaw

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Great diary! One question: can you effectively play as trade intermediary? Let's say you have many ports and connections to China. So you are importing their goods or materials, however, not to feed your factories or pops, but rather to encourage different nations to import those importet goods from your market. would that be possible? and profitable, at least under some conditions?
 
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