• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #20 - Religion and Faith

Come one, come all! Zealots and cynics, fundamentalists and heretics! It is time for us to finally talk about religion in Crusader Kings III, and all that it entails.

While parts of the religion system in CK3 may seem familiar to fans of the previous games, the system itself has been completely rebuilt from the ground up. As a result, there is little point in talking about changes from CK2; instead, I will start diving into how religion works in CK3 and what that means to you as a player.

The Religious Hierarchy
The most logical place to start talking about religion in CK3 is with… Religions! As a game concept, a Religion is defined by four main things:
  • What Traits are considered Sins and Virtues (3 each by default)
  • What Religion Family it belongs to (Abrahamic, Oriental, or Pagan)
  • What the standard religious Doctrines are for its Faiths
  • What Tenets are available to its Faiths
Individual characters and counties will never believe in a whole Religion — they believe in a Faith instead, with each Religion having several Faiths under it. For example, Catholicism and Orthodoxy are Faiths under Christianity, while Theravada and Mahayana are Faiths under Buddhism.

DD_WM_ChristianFaiths.png

[Screenshot showing a selection of either Christian Faiths, including distinct Coptic and Apostolic Faiths]

Similar to the way that Faiths belong to a Religion, Religions belong to a Religion Family. Religion Families are little more than groups of Religions, but this does serve an important purpose, as it plays a significant part in how Faith Hostility is calculated (more on that in a later Dev Diary).

Anatomy of a Faith
So if a character believes in a Faith, what does that mean for them? Well, each Faith is based on its parent Religion and inherits those attributes, but will be differentiated from other Faiths by its Tenets, Doctrines, and Holy Sites.

Tenets
Tenets are mechanical representations of the most important rites, rituals, and traditions of a Faith. Every Faith has exactly 3, picked from a total of around 50 different Tenets in the whole game. Tenets are the things which make a Faith special and unique, the things that set it apart from the other Faiths even within the same Religion (and especially outside of it).

DD_WM_Catholicism.png

[Screenshot of the Catholic Faith’s 3 Tenets - Armed Pilgrimages, Communion, and Monasticism]

Taking Catholicism as an example, we see one of their Tenets is that of Communion. This Tenet is what allows the Catholic Pope to excommunicate rulers, as well as allowing rulers to buy Indulgences from the Pope.

DD_WM_CommunionTenet.png

[Screenshot of the Communion Tenet, promoting values of honesty and community among adherents]

You may notice here that Communion also modifies what traits are considered Sins and Virtues by the Faith. While every Faith inherits 3 Sins and Virtues from its parent Religion, Tenets can add, modify, or remove these.

While some Tenets are unique to a single Faith, others are shared among multiple Faiths. For example, both Catholicism and Orthodoxy have the Communion Tenet. However, it is important to note that no two Faiths have the exact same combination of Tenets — as a result, every Faith will play at least a little differently, and some drastically so!

DD_WM_SacredLies.png

[Screenshot of the Sacred Lies Tenet, promoting scheming and treachery among adherents]

Doctrines
While less impactful than Tenets, Doctrines are still a crucial part of each Faith. A Faith’s Doctrines determine both its clerical structure as well as what its adherents can and cannot legally do.

DD_WM_Doctrines.png

[Screenshot of the Catholic Doctrines]

Every Faith has at least 18 Doctrines, with a few extras depending on the circumstances. While every Religion has a default stance for each Doctrine, these should be considered guidelines more than actual rules; individual Faiths can and do break away from standard dogma when appropriate. The different Doctrines are broken up into 4 categories:

  • Main Doctrines
  • Marriage Doctrines
  • Crime Doctrines
  • Clergy Doctrines

Main Doctrines cover how a Faith is organized on a fundamental level. These include things such as the traditional gender roles of a Faith, if the Faith has a Religious Head or not, how accepting (or unaccepting!) the Faith is of other Faiths and Religions, and if its priests must be part of a dedicated theocracy or if lay clergy are permitted.

Marriage Doctrines cover who is allowed to get married and how: if rulers can have multiple spouses, if concubines are permitted, if and when divorce is permitted, if extramarital relations can result in legitimate heirs, and who can even get married in the first place.

The Crime Doctrines cover what acts, if any, are considered immoral or even outright criminal. Characters who are publicly known to have violated these principles are Shunned, suffering an opinion penalty with all characters of that Faith, and may even be considered an outright Criminal who can be lawfully imprisoned and punished for their violations against divine law.

Finally the Clergy Doctrines determine how priests must behave and what their primary role in society is. The Clergy Doctrines also determine what power, if any, secular rulers have over the clergy within their realm.

Holy Sites
Finally, every Faith has some number of Holy Sites that this Faith considers to be more sacred than the rest. Controlling these Holy Sites will give a bonus to all characters of that Faith; this can create a significant source of conflict in the game, as many different Faiths can share specific Holy Sites, and every one of them wants to be the one in control!

DD_WM_HolySites.png

[Screenshot showing the five Orthodox Holy Sites and their corresponding bonuses]

Moddability
I’m going to go on a quick tangent here and talk about modding Faiths and Religions in Crusader Kings III. Primarily, I want to mention that everything I have talked about so far is completely modular! This means Religion Groups, Religions, Faiths, Doctrines, Tenets, and Holy Sites can all be swapped in and out, modified, changed, or new ones added with even just a basic knowledge of scripting.

DD_WM_Script.png

[Screenshot of a script snippet showcasing the Coptic Faith’s parameters]

This is one of the primary reasons we settled on the Faith, Tenet, and Doctrine system for CK3. Even though religion has a massive impact and touches dozens of game systems, it is easy for even new modders to dip their toes into the pool and start adding or changing things as they see fit. For experienced modders, this setup improves productivity and reduces the risk of introducing bugs. This has also had the side-effect of improving our productivity here at the office, which brings me to...

This is my Faith. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
At current count, we have 99 different Faiths in Crusader Kings III, all of which are fully playable. That more than doubles the number of playable religions we had in CK2 after Jade Dragon released.

DD_WM_EgyptNubia.png

[Screenshot of Egypt and Nubia, showing the diverse number of Faiths in the region]

Remember what I said earlier about how no two Faiths have the same combination of Tenets, and how every Faith would play at least slightly differently?

Yeah.

Your options are quite extensive:
  • You can play as the good ol’ Catholics, or one of their heresies like the Cathars.
  • You can play a different branch of Christianity, such as the Coptic Church or the Armenian Apostolic Church.
  • You can play as a more unusual branch of Christianity like the Adamites.
  • You can play not just as Sunni or Shia, but as individual religious movements or schools within them such as the Ash’ari or Maturidi, and the Isma’ili or Qarmatian.
  • You can play as various Jewish movements, such as the Karaites or Rabbanists.
  • You can play as a Dualist sect, such as Sabianism or Manicheanism.
  • You can play as individual branches of Hinduism, such as Vaishnavism and Shaktism, or make the choice between Therevada, Mahayana, and Vajrayana Buddhism.
  • You can play as one of three different schools of Confucianism, shaped by differing philosophies and focuses.
  • You can play as a distinct African pagan Faith such as Bori Animism or the Senegambian Roog Sene.
  • You can play as either Tengri or Magyar steppe pagans each with their own special traditions.
  • You can play as one of the Indian or Tibetan pagans as well, extending beyond Bon and into other regional and cultural Faiths.
  • Finally, don't forget the old favorite pagan Faiths like Norse (now called Asatru)!
While many of these faiths will have some similarities and common elements (especially within the same Religion), none of them are identical to each other. They all differentiate themselves mechanically in at least one way, and often in many ways. But… let’s say you’ve looked at every single one of these Faiths, and none of them are quite right. What, then, is a soul-searching medieval ruler to do?

Well, join us next week for the Dev Diary on Custom Faith Creation and Pagan Reformation!
 
  • 18Love
  • 7Like
  • 5
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

DreadLindwyrm

Augustus of the North
86 Badges
Jan 31, 2009
10.586
13.299
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Victoria 2
  • 200k Club
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Can new faiths spawn without the interference of the player character? For instance, most of the heresies in medieval Europe were attempts at clerical reforms by dissident priests. I don’t think there’s any example of individual nobles starting their own religion

Is there the possibility for any “heretical priests” to show up in your court preaching new teachings, or *something* along those lines?
I guess that'll be in the heresies diary that's forthcoming.
They previously did say that the AI would be able to create historical heresies though.
 

AndrejK

Major
1 Badges
Aug 6, 2015
798
420
  • Crusader Kings II
Looking at that religious map of East Africa I notice 2 odd name choices.

  1. Waaqi: Which I guess must be the worship of Waaq or Waaqa. I am not sure where the name Waaqi comes from and google isn't telling me much. The religion is still practiced today under the name Waaqeffanna by the Oromo, so that could maybe be a better name.
  2. Kushite: I assume this is a reference to the Kingdom of Kush. The catch is that the Cushitic people share the name, and they worshiped Waaq back in their pagan days. So maybe Nubian would be a better name.
For Waaqqefana I have suggested some Holy Sites and stuff in another thread.

As for Nubia, it appears that both Makuria and Nobatia used to have substantial pagan populations, who worshiped Isis (the Egyptian deity, not the terrorist group). As for the Beja, those desert people used to be Kemetic pagans with a temple in Philae... Heck perhaps the last followers of Amin Ra or Ptah ..

I actually have no idea what "Kushite" represents
 

BrotherJonathan

Petty King of Washington
49 Badges
Jun 15, 2015
955
2.081
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Knights of Honor
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
Very impressed by the depth of this new system. My one quibble is naming different versions of the same religion "Faiths"; I feel that "sects" would be a more precise term.
 

DeinonychusTaco

Second Lieutenant
59 Badges
Oct 8, 2014
148
83
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Impire
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
The schism of 1054 was just between Cardinal Humbert and Patriarch Michael I. All it did was emphasise an already deep rift that existed between the two post-Chalcedon (867: Photian Schism, 769: Iconoclasm Controversy).
It is probably fair to say "if we really want to actually have a schism instead of doing what CK2 did, we're going to have to simplify parts of it and restrict certain dates to certain game mechanics". Which I really would like to have some sort of something communion-related happen, either in 1054 or later, and if we do get a start date prior to 867 I really would like to see a single chalcedonian faith that then splits, but yeah it's never going to fully and accurately represent the whole relationship over the entire time period, it's too complex.
 

DeinonychusTaco

Second Lieutenant
59 Badges
Oct 8, 2014
148
83
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Impire
  • Majesty 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
FWIW on pagan religion naming, I like the way ARR handles it for many of them: "Baltic Pagan" before reformation, "Romuva" after reformation. I think an ahistoric pagan reformation is the appropriate time to introduce neo-pagan terminology, if you want to introduce it at all, and that distinction sounds a lot nicer and more immersive to me than the "Reformed Romuva" vs. "Old Romuva" the base game has. It's like, one of the reasons we have a hard time naming these religions is that they were so freeform and non-standardized historically that even the people who practiced them didn't have very good names for them, so "Baltic Pagan" is a totally fine and clearly comprehensible way of describing the religion. Same with norse, germanic, whatever you want to call it.

Also, if we have 99 religions already, there is absolutely room for celtic paganism. I don't want the devs to waste time on things that aren't important either, but it's clearly not too complicated to throw a shell of a religion into the game now, and I think it would really help both modders and potential for future expansions to set it up now.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Eternal Phobia

Sergeant
88 Badges
Mar 6, 2012
70
47
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Please do not call all eastern religions Oriental, that is a word with a long history of being used in very discriminatory ways. The religion changes look absolutely amazing, it would suck for it to be tainted like that.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Jorlem

Field Marshal
118 Badges
May 9, 2012
4.561
4.024
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • The Showdown Effect
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
Well, join us next week for the Dev Diary on Custom Faith Creation and Pagan Reformation!
For the custom stuff, just how flexible is it? For example, if I wanted to have kings and above in my faith be seen as holy hermaphrodites, and thus give them two spouses, one of which would be male and the other female, could I do that? (No multiple wives or multiple husbands allowed, just one of each.)
 

BrokenSky

Field Marshal
88 Badges
May 1, 2015
4.393
5.727
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
Holy Sites
Finally, every Faith has some number of Holy Sites that this Faith considers to be more sacred than the rest. Controlling these Holy Sites will give a bonus to all characters of that Faith; this can create a significant source of conflict in the game, as many different Faiths can share specific Holy Sites, and every one of them wants to be the one in control!

This may be a question for next week's dev diary, but will holy sites be changable during the game (e.g. if you reform a pagan religion or found your own heresy, if a saint is martyred there or a large temple/cathedral is built etc.
 

Frostschaden

Captain
75 Badges
Apr 11, 2012
488
88
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
This new religion system is looking really good.

I do hope we eventually get some content packs that distinguish between early and late portraits. Alexander II, for example, quite likely did not wear a two-crowned tiara. That change afaik came in the 13th century.
 
Last edited:

pengoyo

Penguin
71 Badges
Dec 9, 2015
1.349
4.055
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
In game terms, Zoroastrianism is part of the Oriental family. It's quite different from the other Oriental religions though, so we gave it some unique mechanics to separate it from them.

I'd suggest that there be an Iranian religion group that includes Zorastrianism Manichaeism, and Yazidism.

I'd also suggest making a Dharmic religious group for Hinduism, Janism, and Buddhism (this might make conversion between Buddhism and Confusionism harder, but that probably better solved by a doctrine or tennet).

It just feels wrong that the Abrihamic faiths are the only ones to get a proper religious group and everything else is kinda lumped together (I know the rest are put into two piles, but it still feels lumped). Especially since given all the exchanges between the Abrahamic and the Iranian religions, the Iranian religions should be lumped in with the Abrihamic religions instead of the oriental religions if they are going to be lumped in at all (could call the group Occidental). Zorastrians were even recognized as people of the book by Muslim rulers (though I believe this also got extended to Hindus).
 

Black7Emperor7

Creator of Africa Plus
28 Badges
Jun 9, 2017
340
462
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Has the map been extended west of Mali into the Senegal region? If not why is the religion of Roog Sene being added?

No mention of the religion of the dominant power of the ck2 map of West Africa, Wagadou, is a concern, or anything about religion in the area of modern day Nigeria or Ghana, which has also been added to the map now?

Im guessing/hoping alot of detail has been left out or is incomplete at this stage regarding West Africa, but will be done before release.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Leivve

Captain
71 Badges
Aug 25, 2016
319
550
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Age of Wonders
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
Map has been confirmed to extend to just short of china in the east, and go as far south as the gold coast. So yes, all of west Africa will be in game.
 

DominusNovus

Field Marshal
86 Badges
Oct 2, 2007
7.624
7.053
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
View attachment 561060
[Screenshot of Egypt and Nubia, showing the diverse number of Faiths in the region]

Is that a historical starting position right there, or has there been a bit of playtime before that shot? I ask because it doesn't look especially historical.
 

FleetingRain

Field Marshal
58 Badges
Aug 2, 2014
3.050
5.833
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
This looks astounding and excellent! Only one small question: is it too late to rename "Oriental" to "Eastern"? It means exactly the same, bu the former term has some unfortunate historical baggage which could detract from the wonderful job you're doing trying to represent faiths past the Indus. And I say this as an (almost) alumnus of an Oriental Studies Faculty ;)

I kinda agree with this but I guess in this game's context, "Eastern" is more about Eastern Europe than Eastern Hemisphere, and "Orient" is the more appropriate term for the time period.
 

FleetingRain

Field Marshal
58 Badges
Aug 2, 2014
3.050
5.833
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
Technically. It exists, but was primarily added to fill out our history database for characters who actually were Hellenic — nobody alive in either start date is a follower of it.

Can you convert to it? Well, it is a 'dead' Religion as mentioned above, so it's not really a realistic goal for most characters. All of its tenets and doctrines do exist however, and they will function as with any other faith.

That said, we haven't added any custom Hellenic events or decisions to CK3, since we decided to prioritize content for the many non-dead Religions.

What about the other dead pagan religions, such as the ones in Arabia before Islam? Surely they'd be present in the history files too, if Hellenism got in.