• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary #14: Sieges

Greetings again future Conquerors! Welcome to another Development Journal! I’m Bas, who also wrote the Development Journal on Ancient Wonders. This time, we’re not looking at cracking open Ancient Wonders for treasure, but rather, we’ll be looking at cracking open Cities! I’ll be talking about the new Siege System in Age of Wonders 4!

DevJournalSiege1.PNG


Cities in Age of Wonders are the core of an empire’s economy, which in turn fuels their war machine. Having one of your cities taken is therefore a huge blow and in the case of someone’s capital, could even result in a player losing or winning the game.

In Age of Wonders 3 players had to make sure they always had armies close to vulnerable cities as they were not defended by default. In Planetfall, we had garrisons to make sure cities and sector bases were defended at all times. However, it added a lot of extra units to already huge fights with exactly the same layout, making players tired of fighting these kinds of battles and auto-resolving them. It also couldn’t stop a player from launching surprise attacks and overwhelming the garrison in a single turn.

Age of Wonders 4 offered us an opportunity to sit down to tackle and improve upon these points. Our aim was to give defenders time to respond, to add more variety to City battles, and to not use the Garrison system to cut down on the amount of units involved in battle.

In the end, we came up with the Siege system, where defending players can invest in structures that help to delay attackers and affect the battle map. Attackers in turn have to lay siege to the cities for multiple turns in the world map where they can invest in Siege Projects to bring siege engines to the battle, or otherwise counter some of the defenses the city has, before they can launch a final decisive battle!

DevJournalSiege2.PNG.jpg


Let’s go back to those defensive structures for a minute, we’ll get into the siege itself later:

Some of the coolest and most appreciated parts of Age of Wonders 3 and Planetfall’s City battles were that certain structures such as turrets would be represented in battle. In Age of Wonders 4, we tried to go a step further! We now have several categories of Defense Structures that will be represented in the Siege battle:

  • Wall Defense Structures will contribute the most to Fortification Health (more on that later), and at least one wall must be built in a city to add the requirement for attackers to siege it. Furthermore, they are represented as different obstacles in combat! Palisade walls are wooden obstacles with low health, but Stone walls are Fortified obstacles with a lot of health that are tricky to take down. The latter also will have less breaches at the start of combat. Making it easier to funnel the attacker down killzones!

StoneWalls.png


  • Tower Defense Structures are the turrets of Planetfall. They spawn units during combat alongside the walls with incredible range and will automatically fire upon attacking units. There are even some more special Towers that instead cast magical buffs or even heal nearby defending units.

NecroticSpires.png


  • Battlement Defense Structures create special obstacles on the positions just behind the wall that benefit the Defender in some way. They often buff Ranged attacks, and can specialize further in buffing Magical or Physical ranged attacks. Such as units gaining extra range, more accuracy, or straight up setting target locations on fire with their attacks!

ArcaneBattlements.png


  • Support Defense Structures add special modifiers to the combat, often in the form of Combat Enchantments! They can do things like spawn Caltrop obstacles in front of the walls. Forcing attackers to go through Slowing and Sharp terrain which inflicts bleeding on them as they try to pile through the breaches!

CatropStash.png


All defensive structures also add Fortification Health, which is displayed beneath city banners and determines the rough amount of time attackers will need to spend sieging the city before they can launch their attack.

This is visible to everyone as long as you’ve discovered the city, so it’s handy to scout out enemy cities before moving in to know what kind of time investment you’ll need to make! If you have a good eye, you can even spot the kind of walls they have by looking at the city model.

FortificationHealth.png


Alright, enough about the defender preparing. Let’s look at the attacking side!

You can start a siege simply by initiating an attack or move order on a hostile walled city! You must do this with at least one hero available in the army who will be leading the siege (Marauders are exempt from this rule, yep, that’s right, infestation stacks can and will siege you!).

A prompt will ask you if you wish to start a siege, and a time estimation in turns is given. Pressing Start will begin your siege!

SiegeIntro.jpg


In the first turn of sieging, you have a nice overview of the Fortification Health of the city and its defense structures. Every turn during a siege, the Fortification Health (wall icon) will be diminished by the amount of Fortification Damage (broken wall icon) you deal. Until Fortification Health reaches 0 at which point you can initiate an attack!

Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
Siege Projects are specific actions the attacker wants to undertake to take out certain defenses of the attacker, speed up the siege, construct siege engines or employ something else like stealing population from the besieged city, they often come at a cost and take up a Siege Project slots, which you can get more of through empire skills.

As the attacker you can select which Siege Projects you wish to undertake only in the first turn of the siege, at which point they will be locked as your armies are executing your plans. In the case of Siege Projects that speed up a siege, they will contribute extra Fortification Damage done per turn.

This was set up in a way to have siege projects be more effective when a city is heavily fortified, creating a different balance between cost and effect per siege.

Headlong Assault for example, which contributes +5 Fortification Damage on top of the base 10 Fortification Damage, will reduce siege time with a city of 30 Fortification Health by 1 turn. But in a city with 120 Fortification Health, it can reduce it by 4 turns!

All empires have access to a multitude of standard Siege Projects, but more can be obtained through tomes or even Ancient Wonders. Such as a displacing effect from the Tome of Mayhem’s Sow Confusion siege project, or the Soul Siphon siege project from Tome of the Reaper to gain extra souls upon completion of the siege and gain Zombie units in combat.

SiegeProjects.png


While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

Be aware though that this leaves the defender with opportunities for counter attacks by catching you outside of reinforcement range! This lets sieges be more dynamic.

Pillaging.jpg


Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.

A defender can see what Siege Projects are being taken against the city and how long the siege lasts. They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.

While this is going on, Defenders can also rally defenders from other places, Rally of the Lieges and Empire Rites can often prove handy in these situations to raise a quick army. Defenders can still freely move defenders in and out of the city.

We’ve tried restricting movement for defenders in besieged cities but found it too restrictive for the defenders to raise a proper defense. This allows defenders to actually undertake successful relief efforts and keeps attackers more on their toes.

RallyLieges.jpg


Once the timer has run out, the Fortification Health depleted to 0, the attacker can initiate the battle! The battle map is a lot more grim and ridden with destruction than previous city battle maps. After all, a siege has now taken place and breaches have appeared in the walls! These breaches form perfect funnels for the defender to exploit. But the attacker can, if they brought the right units, spells or siege engines, create their own additional breaches by attacking the walls!

Next to that, City Defense Structures and Siege Projects can also affect the battle map as described! Siege battles can now really look different depending on what has been undertaken by both defender and attacker.

SiegeExample1.jpg


As for the battlemap. It’s always challenging to create a city map that is balanced yet not samey, look grimey yet not unreadable. What me and Sara have done primarily is realize a vision of a battered city wall, a last bastion of defense, by littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching.

Most of these are decorative to create enough space for the players’ massive armies. And we’ve created custom lighting to contrast the units and line of wall obstacles from the background decoration!

Speaking off, Wall obstacles count as cover, making targets count as Obscured when they shoot over them. However, if defending units stand on the intact battlement hexes, they get to ignore Obscured as they have the high ground!

SiegeExample2.png


Next to this, breaches will already appear at the start of battle, unlike in previous Age of Wonders games, as you’ve been besieging these cities for a while. These are generated in a controlled way to create killzones for defenders, but with the occasional unfortunate breach that allows fast units to break through quickly!

If you’ve brought siege engines or units with Demolisher, you can also easily create new breaches in the walls that are still intact, or destroy enemy towers or battlements if they have any.

SiegeExample3.jpg


So, there you have it! Sieges do away with the micro-intense cat and mouse movements of the old games. Instead creating more trust for players to venture out with their armies. Giving them enough time to come back to, or raise new armies in defense. While attackers can employ tools to counter defenses or instead aim for more economic damage than outright city conquest. I hope to see and hear of many epic siege battles deciding the fate of empires on the brink of destruction or victory. Don’t forget to lock your gates when you get to play Age of Wonders 4!


We are only two weeks from release! Stay updated on all the AOW content!
 

Attachments

  • 1681924475389.png
    1681924475389.png
    797,9 KB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475508.png
    1681924475508.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475308.png
    1681924475308.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475441.png
    1681924475441.png
    2,5 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475657.png
    1681924475657.png
    2,9 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475735.png
    1681924475735.png
    3,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475178.png
    1681924475178.png
    2,8 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924474890.png
    1681924474890.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475097.png
    1681924475097.png
    2,6 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475256.png
    1681924475256.png
    2,9 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475592.png
    1681924475592.png
    3,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924474966.png
    1681924474966.png
    3 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475365.png
    1681924475365.png
    2,1 MB · Views: 0
  • 1681924475034.png
    1681924475034.png
    2,8 MB · Views: 0
  • SiegeIntro.jpg
    SiegeIntro.jpg
    593,8 KB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
  • RallyLieges.jpg
    RallyLieges.jpg
    802,9 KB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
  • DevJournalSiege1.PNG
    DevJournalSiege1.PNG
    5,8 MB · Views: 0
  • SiegeExample2.png
    SiegeExample2.png
    4,1 MB · Views: 0
  • CatropStash.png
    CatropStash.png
    5,8 MB · Views: 0
  • Pillaging.jpg
    Pillaging.jpg
    727,8 KB · Views: 0
Last edited:
  • 41Like
  • 26Love
  • 9
  • 1Haha
  • 1
Reactions:
Amazing stuff! Interesting to read that defenders can still freely move armies in and out of the city during a siege.
Can't wait to fight these epic battles which are my favorite part of AOW. Luckily release date is not that far anymore :)
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I like this system.

I do have a question though: Some of these siege projects sound really strong, so can I as the defender just attack the besieging army to prevent them from becoming active? I assume sometime fighting on open terrain without the siege project effects would be better than fighting behind walls but with active siege projects for the attacker.
 
  • 4Like
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
I do have a question though: Some of these siege projects sound really strong, so can I as the defender just attack the besieging army to prevent them from becoming active?
Yes :
They can still recruit units in the city, rallying a quick militia to hold out against defenders to discourage the attacker from splitting up or even counter attack.
If you destroy the army making the siege, the siege stops and the siege projects don't apply anymore.
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Why do you, dear devs, kill all possible dynamics in the game? 8 turns siege without projects??? -1 turn on city with 30 fortification - 2 turns siege minimum. 2 turns staying with your army leaded by a hero at one place. Do you know what will happen next? If attacker somehow captures the city on next turn he will be crushed. In previous games he could destroy the city and retreat. Hit-and-run tactics. Now devs wiped out it completely. The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.
 
  • 36
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
It would be nice if defenders have the possibility of building a defensive siege structured called 'the goretusk piglet cages', having 2-3 goretusk piglets appear as defenders. :)

On a more serious note what about water moat (for wet / slow debuffs / cancels a land charge strike) and... why not, a lava moat for burning / slow debuffs. Probably these can't be modded in, because it takes visual implementation. I guess the caltrop stash is the only option then, for bleeding / slow.
 
  • 7Like
  • 2
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
It seems to be no more offensive city spells, they are now all siege projects. What about defensive city spells? Do defensive City spell exist or are they now just defensive structures that you have to build.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Why do you, dear devs, kill all possible dynamics in the game? 8 turns siege without projects??? -1 turn on city with 30 fortification - 2 turns siege minimum. 2 turns staying with your army leaded by a hero at one place. Do you know what will happen next? If attacker somehow captures the city on next turn he will be crushed. In previous games he could destroy the city and retreat. Hit-and-run tactics. Now devs wiped out it completely. The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.
I suppose it will kill MP also. One player fights neutrals earning resources and XP, another is doing nothing while "sieging". Guess who wins when the first hero returns for defense.
 
  • 21
  • 2Haha
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Why do you, dear devs, kill all possible dynamics in the game? 8 turns siege without projects??? -1 turn on city with 30 fortification - 2 turns siege minimum. 2 turns staying with your army leaded by a hero at one place. Do you know what will happen next? If attacker somehow captures the city on next turn he will be crushed. In previous games he could destroy the city and retreat. Hit-and-run tactics. Now devs wiped out it completely. The game becomes prolonged, slow, but favorable to low skilled players and dumb AI.
Do you (genuine question, not trying to needle) mind elaborating on why the attacker is so disadvantaged here? There isn't a garrison stack to reinforce against you, and you have the ability to concentrate force better than the defender can, not least because if they attack you elsewhere you can fall back and defend if needed, because of the time sieges buy you. It feels to me less like it will disadvantage the attacker and more like it will increase the prospects of 'all-in' battles between kingdoms where forces are concentrated (because it's not risking immediate destruction from another direction to do that), but I haven't played much of the previous games, so I don't know if there's something important I'm missing here.
 
  • 10Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Are there any ways to significantly decrease siege time? This seems like it gives a major buff to the defending side and not many major buffs to the attacking side. I think Planetfall was the better model as it prevented scout armies from taking undefended cities, but wasn't enough to defend against proper armies.

Is there a fundamental reason that you feel defenders needed such a massive buff over previous versions? I think already making it so that armies can have the same numbers on both sides would be enough.

Maybe this will feel better in practice, but just from reading I'm a bit apprehensive about the system favoring defense and slowing down the game.


Do you (genuine question, not trying to needle) mind elaborating on why the attacker is so disadvantaged here? There isn't a garrison stack to reinforce against you, and you have the ability to concentrate force better than the defender can, not least because if they attack you elsewhere you can fall back and defend if needed, because of the time sieges buy you. It feels to me less like it will disadvantage the attacker and more like it will increase the prospects of 'all-in' battles between kingdoms where forces are concentrated (because it's not risking immediate destruction from another direction to do that), but I haven't played much of the previous games, so I don't know if there's something important I'm missing here.

In previous games, when the attacker attacked, the battle was immediate and the defender had what was in the city hex and hexes adjacent. In AoW3 and previous, this meant you had to leave units in your city to defend against enemy attacks. A common strategy was using fast scout units to harass enemy cities that were left undefended. You could also raze cities in 2? turns after taking the city. In planetfall,, you had garrisons that gave you units even if you had nothing stationed in the city itself and you would have them in addition to any units you had in the city.

Hit and run strategies are no longer viable when you have to sit for multiple turns before being able to attack an enemy city. Nor is it as easy to punish undefended cities.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I suppose it will kill MP also. One player fights neutrals earning resources and XP, another is doing nothing while "sieging". Guess who wins when the first hero returns for defense.
Let's play this scenario in our mind. Let's say Attacker Alice is trying to siege Defender Bob's city while Bob is fighting neutrals.
So here is what can happen:
1) Alice did accumulate enough troops when not losing them to neutrals and Bob did lose enough that Alice is in position to take the city.
2) Somehow Alice doesn't have troops, so she retreats just before Bob arrives.

In case 1), Alice wins, obviously.
In case 2), for 2+ turn Alice did cut Bob's city revenue by half, while preventing it from making any building, AND pillaging all the provinces around. Alice wins again.

Conclusion: don't let the enemy reach your domain and pillage your province and siege your cities if you can avoid it!
 
  • 17Like
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
littering the battlefield with broken remnants of the city, with plenty of muddy puddles and the occasional corpse fallen from previous attempts at breaching
I looked for these with some trepidation, and was relieved when all I found were piles of rib cages and skulls—old bones. In the first screenshot where I noticed them, some of the attackers looked a tad skeletal, so I figured the army had consumed the flesh, but the bone-piles seemed to be the same in the other screenshots as well (I may have missed something). I’m not fond of gore, so—thank you! :)

Thank you for another interesting diary! Hope you had as much fun making this as we’ll have playing it!
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Let's play this scenario in our mind. Let's say Attacker Alice is trying to siege Defender Bob's city while Bob is fighting neutrals.
So here is what can happen:
1) Alice did accumulate enough troops when not losing them to neutrals and Bob did lose enough that Alice is in position to take the city.
2) Somehow Alice doesn't have troops, so she retreats just before Bob arrives.

In case 1), Alice wins, obviously.
In case 2), for 2+ turn Alice did cut Bob's city revenue by half, while preventing it from making any building, AND pillaging all the provinces around. Alice wins again.

Conclusion: don't let the enemy reach your domain and pillage your province and siege your cities if you can avoid it!
There is no need to theorize. I still recall my first MP HoMM3 match which happened 20+ years ago.
I controlled more towns and had more troops with my hero and then my opponent crashed me without any chance because while I was fighting nearest neutrals my opponent cleared several dragon utopias and had amazing artifacts. 8 turns is a huge amount of turns, I recall an AoW3 game where my Necromancer got 10 levels during first 10 turns.
 
While I do like the idea of interacting siege projects vs fortification level, this particular approach seems stagnant. Hit and run tactics should be possible, just more challenging to pull off than in AoW3. A 2 turn minimum siege, if correct, destroys this outright.

First, I wish that if siege projects generate more fortification destruction on turn 1 than the defender has fortification score, the attack should be able to commence immediately.

Second, I'd hope for 0 base fortification score, it should all be the result of built defenses.

I like the idea of this system, but not at the cost of ruining any chance of hit and run tactics. Hit and run should be hard to pull off, much harder than AoW3, but not a 2 turn minimum, just have to come more prepared.
 
Last edited:
  • 8
Reactions:
Interesting. I like the garrison system but I am willing to give this a try.
A quick question, can an army with flying units attack a walled city without besieging it ?
Seem a bit silly for a stack of dragons to sit outside a city for 5 turns before they can fly over the wall and BBQ it to a crisp.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Let’s quickly go back to the Defender, while their city is under siege, it suffers a hefty -50% penalty on all resource incomes except Draft, and cannot produce any City Structures during a siege either! This incentivizes defenders to take action instead of just waiting for the very last moment. Luckily, there are ways for defenders to prepare while a siege is going on.
A few questions here:
1. What map will a battle be done on, a siege map or regular map, if a defender attacks the sieging army?
2. If it will be on a siege map, will there be some effects of the attacker projects?

P.S. When a defender has less projects than the attacker:
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I feel the people complaining that hit and run tactics are gone are just looking at it the wrong way. Hit and run tactics should never be enough to take out a city of 1000's of people. Hit and run tactics have always been about destroy the resources of the enemy, not their strongholds. In past game, the hit and run tactics worked on strongholds as well... That has now be corrected, in my opinion. If you want to hit and run, you need to focus on razing tile and province improvements. Depriving resources and gaining some your self. But once a city has a wall, you in for the long hall. That should not be a hit and run target. And now it isn't. Seems like the right move to me.
 
  • 33
  • 14Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Fortification Damage per turn is determined by:
  • A base value of 10 damage per turn
  • Units with Siege Breaker in besieging armies, such as Giants and Iron Golems
  • Siege Projects active during the siege
While a siege is progressing, if the attacker has brought multiple armies, they don’t have to simply wait around the walls for the timer to run out. Reserve armies can simply run around the domain, scouting for hidden relief forces on the way or pillaging province improvements, especially Special Province Improvements like Teleporters and Spell Jammers you may want to take out while besieging to make sure no nasty surprises will await you once in battle.

A couple of questions:
1) Do auxiliary armies with Siege Breaker units contribute to Fortification Damage or only units within the stack of the Hero who is conducting the siege?

2) Do units with Siege Breaker stack their Fortification damage bonus? ie. Can you hypothetically have a hero and 17 units with Siege Breaker conducting a siege and get absurdly high Fortification Damage values?

3) Is Fortification Damage updated dynamically? ie. If auxiliary armies leave to go explore/scout/etc. Or if the defender attacks the besieging stack and specifically targets/kills the units with Siege Breaker, does the Fortification Damage adjust based on those losses? (Or gains, if the stack returns).

3b) Can units be added/removed from the Hero's stack while the siege is ongoing? ie. Keep Siege Breaker units in the Hero Stack during the siege period, and then swap them out for combat-based units before the attack begins? Or have a Hero start the siege early while your Siege Breaker stacks are en route?


I like the idea of this system, but not at the cost of ruining any chance of hit and run tactics. Hit and run should be hard to pull off, much harder than AoW3, but not a 2 turn minimum, just have to come more prepared.
While I agree with you that hit and run tactics should be possible, I think they still are. Instead of capturing/razing cities however the intent would be to raze provinces (which as far as I can tell, have no innate defense and give resources when pillaged. In fact it might be more profitable to have stealthy scouts repeatedly pillage land each time the target recaptures it (if they do) than it would have been to raze the city. I wonder if camouflaged units remain stealthed while pillaging...
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions: