• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Dev Diary 12 - Challenge Accepted! By Boian Spasov from Haemimont Games

Hello and thank you for checking out this shiny new dev diary dedicated to the upcoming update, codenamed Sagan. While our previous update (Da Vinci) catered mostly to our players that like to focus their efforts on city-building in Creative Mode, Sagan's main feature is targeted towards our more hardcore survivalist crowd. It introduces a new game mode meant to test your colony building skills as well as your mastery of not just surviving under the alien conditions, but being fast and efficient while doing so.

Challenges
How can you measure the skills of a player in a sandbox city-builder? Even in a survival-oriented one, like Surviving Mars, the difference between a very good player and merely a competent one is often in the efficiency and game time they need to accomplish their goals. While the existing Score system tries to evaluate this to some degree, it is far from perfect, and there is really no fair way to balance it for all possible play styles and game rules.

Challenges are meant to be our answer to this problem, introducing a new way to test your skills. Each Challenge presents a single objective before you that may be as simple as "complete the Founder stage" or more complex like "research all technologies". All Challenges are time-limited, so you have to optimize your approach and be efficient to pass the test.

qJnGhklVYun0vByA3nNq14ymsqC5HrrhAfZQEDeX6Cl7TJV5B6FRNUdJPM2D0awSXF1hSlKlTUHxBacB0l5agpaspUeqHcw5jw9ACBLfptFawbYK6lmFrS_-h3uz12F4uCNfXJl27HGVGXeySg


Each Challenge is set on specific map coordinates, with a particular sponsor and game rules. If you are attempting a Challenge, you are playing under the same basic conditions as any other player. As a side effect, specific Challenges encourage you to try combinations of sponsors and game conditions that you would likely not experience otherwise. No Mysteries are active during the challenges, because we don't want any distractions to get in the way of pursuing the challenge objective.

Each Challenge has a time limit to be "completed" - you will fail if the objective is not completed during this time. If you manage to finish a challenge exceptionally fast, in another, much tighter time frame, it will be considered "perfected". While completing some challenges can be a significant feat on its own, perfecting them is balanced to be a challenge. Even our most dedicated players here at Haemimont had to learn new challenges and rethink their approach more than once while pursuing perfection. And if you are really adventurous you can try to set your own record - how quicker than the perfected deadline you can finish a challenge? We expect to discover new ways to play our own game more efficiently once we see what the best players can do.

We have created three different Challenges for all sponsors, except Paradox Interactive, since we wanted to avoid exclusive challenges locked behind the bonus sponsor. Challenges vary in playtime greatly - the shortest can be completed in just a few Sols and are ideal for a quick play session that still puts your skills to the test, while the longest can take hundreds of Sols. Each sponsor offers three Challenges spanning different time frames.

If you particularly enjoy a given Challenge playthrough, you are free to continue playing the map as a normal sandbox game after the Challenge has ended, even if it was failed.

fuNKubLqMOyqnqi3McYObwhMdBUC6YaYfJBEjnASq8_EFqVIwlQENQ7vzs87Z6WFWE6l_eQF2Stc5kiIb-LJdsif3Hdy4yKDqmyAzMZTdefrp2fHu6ADKKrIPtpeaFwG9CHxcfmVATv--gBGyg


Maps
We've made some pretty significant changes to our maps in Sagan with two main goals in mind - to guarantee that players playing on the same map encounter the same technologies in the same order and to increase the overall visual variety of the maps. The accumulated changes will make sure that all maps in the game will be different than the maps on the same coordinates that you've visited pre-Sagan. On the upside, they should remain significantly more stable in future releases.

To guarantee an even playing ground for the Challenges and for the players that like to compare their score and accomplishments while playing on the same map, randomization of technologies and possible breakthroughs is now map dependent. This means that if you are playing on the same coordinates the technologies in the research screen will always appear in the same order and encountered anomalies will tend to yield the same breakthroughs. If you are lucky to get a particular breakthrough or technology early, keep in mind that all players playing on the same map will also be able to do so. The one exception is the "Chaos Theory" game rule that will offer a true randomization of technologies, even on the same map just for the players that enjoy a completely unpredictable experience. Of course, technologies added in future updates will also shake the status quo a bit.

Revisiting the map generation logic, we noticed that several sets of environment objects and map themes were underused, resulting in many maps ending much more visually similar to one another than our artists and level designers intended. We tweaked the map generation algorithm and you should see more radically different maps from now on. Check out the screenshots below for some beautiful landscapes from the new maps.

NQE--vpuWCOTdxWGRendxvPQRfwphzK_e5QZXz2FhadqcNJVwGXs7FpVsuWWuToaUtVgmb-tUbvA___mLiKHVIqZCkTfAhCFi6owj8Ikjy0v7OLWslS9fvkFA3Yfkv8RoghAIvMm1tJsHjeKcg



3tuochUBrc8UmWbLGMrQ9dsutIt7elwyziL3wmoFKX0oRQ9cpZjwT_yy3YC024y4zWag1zgKvm4R19rAidArHMIxpHUwwqP1siQEvoIBnj1xtG5mwTqHeWtwAezyYv99swlrB9u0rXrMRLGSVg



cvKlT7Do7QM3_VXepljSBmK9GxhCR7-EvqUsg636_Fv8ln4n08BqP8SKNWc9FDQ2sc0SFrFIdDScP2Yg2Mm3M6S6S4mwRpUbi3FyXnlw0_-U6UEzIFwV2MRuwVoOkTIu8JhEBNrjmwlEs9CGqg


Self-sufficient Rovers
Managing battery power of your Rovers almost never provided real survival challenges, but was an annoying source of frustration, especially when managing multiple vehicles at the same time. As part of our initiative to reduce tedious micromanagement and focus your attention on more important mechanics, we removed the batteries from all Rovers and made the vehicles self-sufficient. Drone batteries and Charging Station still work like they did before and we are quite happy with them.

We also redesigned to Rover Command AI technology that previously removed Rover batteries as part of its effects. Currently, in addition to increasing Commander Drone capacity as before, it provides a much needed automated mode to Explorer and Transport functionality. This handy feature was inspired by some of the most popular mods out there - thanks, Mod creators, keep being awesome!

R1hGcqwDSmn6eihYS5So21RLF6_m6RtHTP8T_I9BVgs1X7ctSBd5jyLhaRhRbg_8XxZwzjGmg1tQiwoj5CoR6mCoTX3pMmExYL2v7PwcENMeqDNMUxSQPfUiQEXMJaAMfFr-t8sb6QlaBRU6Gg


Patch highlights

As is tradition, I will end with some highlights from the patch notes. Feel free to check the complete list when it comes out (which will be very very soon!).

S1ELIwlmY_eTgowo8sF8MXmeacpVU2GSAJgf8_UsyJ4AaWXly4eNP3tER3zjLUIs5mzbgEGz8YwPAISxyJSseP-M_h-iZtaUE6cTqjJJDiIbJSnKjgHw-fPQOD6w0Fu0nPdlzgYNJe6i-qiB5A


- Concrete deposits have been reworked to work more like other existing deposits. Their functionality now depends on the deposit marker, instead of the exact coverage over the yellowish terrain patch. Concrete Extractors can now easily exhaust nearby markers without the need to place extractors to cover up the whole patch, a feat that was practically impossible in many previous cases.

- Popup messages were getting a bit too intrusive, so most of them now appear minimized as a notification and do not interrupt gameplay. They will be maximized automatically if you don't pay attention to them for a while, but generally are less likely to interrupt you. We were happy to find out that players tend to pay more attention to messages when they are opened manually instead of automatically.

- Dust effects of buildings and rockets are now visualized by building placement and selection, making this process more transparent. It is now more obvious why buildings tend to malfunction near Extractors and rocket landing sites.

It is time to wrap this up. Please, share your favorite challenge and best time when Sagan comes out! And stay tuned, something big is on the horizon!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I like 99% of the things here, but I am not sure about the fixed order of technologies for each map. Some maps, like Mons Olympus, I may want to play multiple times but still be surprised - without going all Chaos Theory and have my first techs be spires and shuttles. Maybe there can be a lighter version of Chaos Theory that just detaches technology order from the map, but doesn't make it fully random.
 
Can there be either a new rule allowing for randomized breakthroughs only? Or would placing the new system behind an “Ironman option” or “ranked play” option work?
 
While I like the idea of dealing with issue of battery micro-management of the Rovers, I think removing the batteries is the wrong way.

I would much prefer a system to like how "Auto<insert>Rovers" did from the Steam Workshop where if the battery got to a pre-set level the Rover would return and recharge at the nearest wire, or the Drone Carrier would go out and give one of the others a quick boost to get it back to a wire to recharge.

Outside of that issue, which I admit before I got those mods was a big issue, I am quite enjoying the look of this patch
 
I like many things about this update but some changes bother me :
- I liked the battery management of the rovers, it adds more challenge early on
- I liked how the concrete extractor had to be perfectly placed on the deposit to extract concrete, the new way sounds too easy

Can two new rules be added to make those two point work like before ?
I think it "casualizes" the game a bit too much as it removes some micro-management and ideal extractor placement.
 
Concrete extractor fix is good - no more needing to build 3 extractors, let them finish, then wait until you had finally found the tech to remove buildings before you could demolish them and build a few more extractors to finish off the deposit.
 
Well. Looks like I'll be hunting out a list of which maps have nano refining. I hate making Mohole. Would rather have that drive to keep expanding for my resources while the old ones give that little trickle.
 
Love the concrete extractor/dust radius changes, couple of similar issues I'd love fixed:

When placing anything with an adjustable radius (subsurface heater, turboelectric scrubber, etc) you should be able to adjust the radius before placing or the radius should at least start out maxed so we can see if things will really be in range.

Subsurface heaters show an area of effect that is false, as it's actually a circle not a hexagon, it'd be great if it showed what tiles are actually covered and what aren't instead of needing to guess.
 
I like 99% of the things here, but I am not sure about the fixed order of technologies for each map. Some maps, like Mons Olympus, I may want to play multiple times but still be surprised - without going all Chaos Theory and have my first techs be spires and shuttles. Maybe there can be a lighter version of Chaos Theory that just detaches technology order from the map, but doesn't make it fully random.

I agree with this.

I'm happy with challenges having a fixed tech progression (for repeatability, comparability etc.) but removing it from the base game removes some of the challenge and definitely lots of the enjoyment.

I've played maps multiple times and this is basically removing that option so that they are only playable once.
 
Good changes. I am looking forward to upcoming patch.
 
Can't say I'm all that interested in the fixed tech trees by map either. I'm ok with doing that for challenge maps so that people can do actual apple/apple comparisons but for regular play, I'd really like to see the map randomized completely every time you hit that "Restart Map" button.
 
Are we ever going to see more building options or more dynamc supply chains? the ability to scult terrain? Actual social change over the hundreads of sols we spend? More things to build? A way to make sol 1000 feel in any way differnt to sol 100?
 
Hey challenges sounds great especially when there are different once for short to long time fun ;) I have already seen I'm not the first who don't always like the fixed tech tree. I would suggest an option that unlink map seed and tech seed. Then it would serve the purpose but also allow playing the same map with random tech.

The other two (big) changes I'm not really a fan of. While the power line change helped to understand the mechanic and made it logical consistent this two changes just make the game easier without a real benefit. Maybe you have a good reason but "for the player" might not resonate with all players ;)
Rover limitations are an early game drawback and prevent you from going across the map from the start. Later there is the tech that make tedious charging obsolete and open up the map. That sounds good for me.
Concrete mining is at first "difficult' and you find out on the 2-3th try that maybe not placing the first extractor right on top make it easier to mine with more then one extractor. This is kind of a mini game (like the old power line) that I would be sad to miss it. Again a tech that make it later easier would be better, like little rovers that dive around and find all the missing spots.

But yes, I'm looking forward to play with the new changes, keep on the good work.
 
I like the challenges - but to not be able to have different research orders for the same map is boring.
Some of the maps are my favourites - and especially the hard maps are (was) rather few.
No change means less replayability
I agree with others and want a "standard" order and a random order - don´t care which order that is standard and which is optional.

But except thing - that I expect you to fix - I´m happy with the update.
 
I like the challenges - but to not be able to have different research orders for the same map is boring.
Some of the maps are my favourites - and especially the hard maps are (was) rather few.
No change means less replayability
I agree with others and want a "standard" order and a random order - don´t care which order that is standard and which is optional.

But except thing - that I expect you to fix - I´m happy with the update.
Note that there's not as many map layouts as coordinates, if the order is set for each coordinate, the same map layout can have different orders as the coordinates are different.
 
Note that there's not as many map layouts as coordinates, if the order is set for each coordinate, the same map layout can have different orders as the coordinates are different.

You are correct - it was fewer unique maps than I thought.
Out of a little bit more than 50000 maps, there are just 2101 totally unique settings in the database.

If you do not take into account dangers - that I either way set to maximum via options - there are only 153 unique maps settings in the game - the rest is "only" graphics and different placement of settings (actually pretty big differences that heavily affect the game, more than a concrete more or less).

Of course graphics varies a bit more -so the unique maps are absolutely more than that. But that doesn´t change that there is room for more. I think we need both more very flat map for megabuilders, and more very hard maps for people like myself
 
I have a couple of ideas based on this dev diary:

Chaos Theory vs. Fixed technologies - Make it a slider. So we can set either absolutely no variation depending on map coordinates, shake them up a bit, or randomize them completely like Chaos Theory works now. I like Chaos Theory but sometimes it's only late game technologies at the start and it's not as fun.

Environment objects could make the colony more visually appealing, and increase colonists well-being or even the tourism potential once you finally add that to the game ;);)