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Dev Diary #115 - Monumental Foundations

Hello and welcome to this dev diary where we will be looking into some new map visuals that’ll be added in the future. As the team grows, we’ve had the opportunity for our new artists to warm up by sprucing up the map a little. Among the things we’ll show off today, chief is the Canterbury Cathedral and its evolution over time: made by our new Environment artist Joel, who’s written about his process and the research involved.

Building a Monument – Canterbury Cathedral​

The Original Church - Tier 1​

When creating the first tier of the Canterbury Cathedral, which references the Anglo-Saxon church extant in the 867 & 1066 start dates, it was important to acknowledge the lack of available visual reference material. Historically speaking, the Anglo-Saxon church was burnt down in 1067, but we do have some conceptual renditions and blueprints of the estimated building layout to work from, courtesy of the archeologists (our heroes).

blueprint1.png
blueprint2.png

Sometimes luck strikes and blueprints or estimated ones can be found.

From this, I created a fairly basic interpretation of the church that serves well as the first/starting stage for the Canterbury Cathedral. Additional geometry, like pillars and an external house, was added to the building to create a more compelling in-game silhouette.

tier1.png

The original Anglo-Saxon church - Tier 1

The Norman Cathedral - Tier 2​

After the first fire, a second church was built in its place, distinctively making use of the Romanesque style. As we move forward in history, more references become available, and fortunately the church foundations are described as rather similar to the church of today. The more significant differences to modern Canterbury Cathedral are, for example, the front and main towers: they are still Romanesque.

tier2.png

Canterbury Cathedral - Tier 2

Romanesque and Gothic
If this happens to be your first time coming across these terms, some explaining might be in order. Romanesque and Gothic are two styles of architecture which defined buildings and churches throughout the Medieval era. Romanesque, the older of the two, emerged sometime around the year 1000 and lasted until around 1150. It’s a style arising from and defined by Germanic, Byzantine and old Roman influences, favoring circular Roman arches and a more solid-looking facade compared to later churches.

lessay.png

Romanesque Abbaye de Lessay

From the Romanesque emerged the Gothic in the 12th-13th centuries. In Gothic architecture, Roman arches find themselves replaced by Gothic ones; we also see elaborate ribbed vaults, towering flying buttresses, and church interiors brightened by large stained glass windows.

chartres.png

Chartres Gothic Cathedral

Modeling
I technically started with the third tier of the structure of the Canterbury Cathedral, rather than the second tier. Because we work with modular pieces and texture atlases, I find it easier to work from the complete cathedral, then remove any additional geometry. It also meant that the last tier would have most of the same layout as the modern cathedral, minus some of the later additions.

modular.png

Modular pieces used for building the Cathedral

With the modular pieces ready, it was then just a question of assembling the cathedral.


The Gothic Cathedral - Tier 3​

We could see in the final version of the Cathedral that a lot of areas had been raised since the time of the second, so I simply made minor tweaks to the height of some walls and roofs, while preserving the original UV. The back of the cathedral had also been extended and rebuilt, with the addition of two new structures. The south-west tower was rebuilt, but not the north-west tower as of yet: that happened later historically.


cathedral.jpg

The cathedral with the towers in the front. The main tower however was a new construction past CK3’s timeline.

tier3.png

Canterbury Cathedral - Tier 3

The third tier takes on a Gothic style, with flying buttresses along the length of the cathedral, and it also puts a golden angel on the pinnacle of the main tower.


Basing and Decal
In order for us to be certain that our holdings will be placed correctly on the map, we extend the ‘basement’ of the mesh into the ground to accommodate for the map’s height differences.
This ensures we have no areas free flying in the air. Usually this is a bigger issue for holdings than monuments, as monuments have a single specific place on the map where they exist.

decal-texture.png

Decal texture in Substance Painter

We also create decals that show a more interesting ground variation around the structure. In my case, I painted out some roads to give life to the area. Some color variation to the grass to better blend in with the rest of the map, and darker areas where the cathedral would be located. The decal plane is on average twice the size of our building.

tiers1-3.png

Anglo-Saxon church , Romanesque Cathedral, Gothic Cathedral T1 - T2 - T3

After all the buildings were done and I was happy with the progression from tier 1 to tier 2 and tier 3, I could finalize the UV’s. We use two UV maps to layout the textures: one is for the ambient occlusion that we bake in, and the other for the texture atlas. The texture atlas lets us reuse textures to save on performance. I did the baking in marmoset with a low poly to low poly set up. Normally you have a high poly to bake down to the low poly mesh, but I was only after the ambient occlusion.

Bonus Bridge Update​

A new set of cultural stone bridges will be added over the world, replacing some of the old wooden bridges and overall making it a bit clearer where the safer river crossings are. We will be adding a total of four standard bridge types, for Western Europe, the Mediterranean, the Middle East, and Indian regions.


bridges.png

These bridges have been based on historical examples sampled from these regions. The Western and Mediterranean bridges are based on arched bridges from Europe, with the appropriate local flairs. The Middle Eastern bridge is based upon Sassanid designs like the Marnan and Kohneh bridge, among others, and are mostly found in the regions around modern Iran and Iraq. The Indian bridges take their inspiration from the Athernala bridge in eastern India.
 
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You can go on praising them, but I'm not going to praise everyone like a kindergarten teacher, and I don't think they are sensitive children either.
You really missed my point entirely.
I have a fair share of criticism of the game (some of them shared with the general community). And i do talk about them. See my suggestion about the annoying perk unlocks for basic actions. I just think it's in the way of believability and freedom of roleplay. (Seriously, i don't need to invest years of my life to figure out that i can blackmail people and make friends.)

What i am advocating for is not to suck up to the devs and kiss their feet, but to be respectful when criticising. And not to pointlessly voice unspecified discontent merely out of spite with not a hint of goal-orientated effort. What good could that possibly do?
If you want the game to get better, turning the forums toxic is counter-productive and stupid. The devs won't be here to listen in that case. That is my point.
 
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Good development diary.
 
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davidproxy

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This is kind of a stretch but I was just thinking with the first teaser image being a bridge and this dev diary being about bridges and a church. Well, the term Pontifex Maximus is thought to have originally meant supreme bridge builder (at least according to wikipedia) so I wonder if they're actually going to include religious content. Plus, one of the devs and a community ambassador on the CK subreddit specifically responded to someone who said that they thought the dlc was going to be religion based and then followed up to a different comment by saying,

"Wouldn't be the first time we've deliberately smoke-screened like this.
Or would it?"

Not sure where the cave fits in with this though. Like I said though, I'm bored and there's not much else to talk about right now.

Good job by the way to the new person who did the map render! Looks good!
 
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SauronGorthaur

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Eh, I for one am actually disappointed that we won't be getting monuments. They are fun mechanics in EU4 and CK2. Especially CK2 where they were modular and you could do things like turning Vatican into a spike covered brewery after conquering Rome as a pagan. Obviously I'm not saying it should be the only or even the main feature of an expansion, but I wouldn't mind them returning at some point.

Thanks for your constructive contribution.
I am sure responses like this will motivate the devs to engage more with the community and spend time on the forums to listen to their ideas.
Because they've been super engaged at any point prior to the community's reaction to CK3 souring.


As someone who's very keen for the CK3 team to move to a Stellaris-style "more, but smaller" approach to dev diaries, this sort of thing is exactly what I'm talking about.

Good work - and welcome to the team Joel!

What will trigger the model change? Date? Technology of the owner? Player "investing" in the Cathedral?
More than what? Dev diaries for EU4 are more frequent, yet they manage to be larger than this one like 90% of the time.
 
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grommile

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They are fun mechanics in EU4 and CK2.
They are contentious mechanics; some people really loathe the game concept represented by EU4 and CK2's implementations of "monuments".
 
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They are contentious mechanics; some people really loathe the game concept represented by EU4 and CK2's implementations of "monuments".
True. If I remember the controversy correctly, some people complianed that they felt too "gamey", and made the games play too much like Civilization.
 

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I'd like a small dev diary saying how the team is expanding by one junior programmer to tackle their embarrassment that one lone non employee that is not dedicated to working on the game, produces a mod called Unofficial Patch that tackles a huge swathe of bugs in vanilla that Paradox have ignored, even while producing a end of year bug fix release that tackled nothing in terms of impactful game bugs.

I'm sure that modder wouldn't mind if they even just merged their mod into vanilla, because that's all I do when I unashamedly port their fixes to my mods using a simple merge tool.

I know just how much the EOY bug fix patch didn't imho, because I review every game update to see how they impact my personal mods, and I was expecting so much more.

And before someone, pipes up that I'm being passive aggressive and might hurt their feelings, jog on, I'm being honest and if that hurts guess that's part of the territory.
 
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I'd like a small dev diary saying how the team is expanding by one junior programmer to tackle their embarrassment that one lone non employee that is not dedicated to working on the game, produces a mod called Unofficial Patch that tackles a huge swathe of bugs in vanilla that Paradox have ignored, even while producing a end of year bug fix release that tackled nothing in terms of impactful game bugs.

I'm sure that modder wouldn't mind if they even just merged their mod into vanilla, because that's all I do when I unashamedly port their fixes to my mods using a simple merge tool.

I know just how much the EOY bug fix patch didn't imho, because I review every game update to see how they impact my personal mods, and I was expecting so much more.

And before someone, pipes up that I'm being passive aggressive and might hurt their feelings, jog on, I'm being honest and if that hurts guess that's part of the territory.
And still bringing your (valid!) core message (= there is an unoffical patch, which -or parts of it- could be included in the main game) over in a more constructive and less aggressive manner would be possible and more helpful. Why not just simply suggesting that they might have a look at mod X to save them some work or updating the bug reports of the bugs covered by the patch mod with a hint that a solution has been found by a modder? Don't you think that this might be more productive than making demands about what the dev team has to feel or claims about them "ignoring" certain bugs?
 
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grommile

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And before someone, pipes up that I'm being passive aggressive and might hurt their feelings, jog on, I'm being honest and if that hurts guess that's part of the territory.
The passive aggression starts with "is expanding by one junior programmer to tackle their embarrassment" and is liberally sprinkled through the rest of the post.

The non-passive-aggressive version of your post would look something like this:

"Have you looked at this mod (link to mod here)? It fixes a bunch of things you've not yet published a fix for."
 
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Is there any chance modders will be able to directly target the numerical value of level of splendor (rather than simply reducing or increasing it by a whole tier) in the future?

It feels really weird to me that I can make something cost Fame or Devotion, which are the cumulatives for prestige and piety, but not Splendor which is the cumulative of renown.
 
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I'd like a small dev diary saying how the team is expanding by one junior programmer to tackle their embarrassment that one lone non employee that is not dedicated to working on the game, produces a mod called Unofficial Patch that tackles a huge swathe of bugs in vanilla that Paradox have ignored, even while producing a end of year bug fix release that tackled nothing in terms of impactful game bugs.

I'm sure that modder wouldn't mind if they even just merged their mod into vanilla, because that's all I do when I unashamedly port their fixes to my mods using a simple merge tool.

I know just how much the EOY bug fix patch didn't imho, because I review every game update to see how they impact my personal mods, and I was expecting so much more.

And before someone, pipes up that I'm being passive aggressive and might hurt their feelings, jog on, I'm being honest and if that hurts guess that's part of the territory.
When it comes to passive-aggressive posts in this thread you are certainly better than others. At least you had some constructive criticism and goal-oriented direction in there.

The passive-aggression doesn't help your point, but you are right that there exist open-source-ish patches for objective bugs in the game that the devs maybe should take a look at.
Just cut out the unnecessary part next time and you'd make an even better contribution to the discussion. :)
 
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Herr Doctor

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It's a very nice content and idea for buildings, respect your work a lot as it's really nicely done and looks niet. But it's really hard to enjoy stuff like this when there are so many important things this game lacking in almost every aspect from the basics like overlapping feudal sovereignties (well, in real world you could be easily a vassal for two or even three lords for various territories under your legitimate rule like for example Valois dukes of Burdungy in France and the Holy Roman Empire, but in CK universe you would be considered usurper for some de jure lands) or cities struggle for their rights and autonomy (including the city leagues or bloody wars and conflicts with their lords like that in Flanders) to the church hierarchies and organisation (conclave, saints cult, abbeys, bishoprics, archbishoprics etc) or the proper crusades (where AI don't just jump into them for no reason except random call)...
 
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grommile

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when there are so many important things this game lacking in almost every aspect from the basics
I wouldn't hold your breath for a formal system to represent multiple suzerains, though. The best time – and possibly the only sane time – to do that would have been in 1.0, because it has such far-reaching implications for how you do everything else.

As for the rest of the things, this recent post by Wokeg, on the hows and whys of the general state of the game, is very enlightening. (It arose in the particular context of someone complaining about the map having India when Europe is shallow.)

 
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Duzgun

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the basics like overlapping feudal sovereignties (well, in real world you could be easily a vassal for two or even three lords for various territories under your legitimate rule like for example Valois dukes of Burdungy in France and the Holy Roman Empire, but in CK universe you would be considered usurper for some de jure lands)
Yes, this is something I had pointed out here a while ago already, though it is not a simple task...
 
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WestuHal

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Sadly confirmed on discord, not today but next week apparently!
Thanks for the update! Here’s hoping it’s the next DLC announcement…if the team are aspiring to four releases this year, and if I recall correctly they said in a previous dev diary that big releases would get around 2 months’ worth of dev diaries, then I expect the announcement can’t be too far off!
 
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