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DD #106: A Fistful Of Friends & Foes

Hello everyone!

Nice to meet all of you! A little background on me: I am Noodle, a Game Designer on CK3. I’ve been on this project since before the release of the game, but for most of its life I’ve been some delicious flavour of QA. Anyway, enough about me, I know you’re all here for more on our Event Pack!

Last time out Trin took you through some of the more mechanical changes, such as the memory system and viewer, the loyalty traits and some of our childhood event changes. Today I’ll walk you all through some of the flavour-driven content you can expect to find in the Event Pack, though we’ll also look at a neat little system we’ve mentioned in passing before towards the end.

We’ve been hard at work creating over 100 new standalone events for this pack, and at this point it probably behooves me to explain that when we say ‘over 100’ we mean something a little different than just counting out each individual event we’ve made. To avoid any grey areas, we count both big event chains and small, one-off events exactly the same. No matter if you’re counting a singular event or a behemoth 14-event long chain: as Gimli would put it, it still only counts as one. As such, whilst we’ve bandied around a figure of 100, you’ll all be getting quite a bit more than that!

All of the new events pertain to the relationships between characters in some fashion, meaning that all relationships - from lieges to vassals, from friends to spouses, from lovers to foes to… lover-foes - have new events tied to them, to greater or lesser degrees. I’m going to take you through some of the joyful and jocular, the serious and the sad, and of course the weird and the wacky of this pack.

Let’s begin by addressing an event or two that could bring your character happier times, shall we?

The Good​


You should always be able to rely on your friends to support you not only in good times, but also in bad. Moreover, a true friend is one who will have difficult talks with you because they truly care about your wellbeing. Perhaps even an intervention, should the actions you take to deal with stress so completely consume your life:

A friendly Intervention.png

[picture of A Friendly Intervention]

Despite the name, it’s not just friends who come into the spotlight in this pack. Your family are an active part of your life at court. Your parents offer sage advice, your children chances to bond, and your siblings are solid confidants - when they’re not trying to take your throne for themselves, of course. Even your beloved darling spouse also has the opportunity to raise you up, praise you, and, er, ask if you’d maybe consider sponsoring his mum to make you a lovely set of jewellery:

Family Craft.png

[picture of The Family Craft]

Still, trusting your mother-in-law could have its upsides. It might turn out the old girl is quite the metalsmith!

Inspiration Realised.png

[picture of Inspiration Realised]

Even when you’re looking after your family and all is seemingly well, intrigue is never too far away. The demands of a multiple-spouse marriage becomes a little more unique in Friends & Foes, as now you might be getting a few eyebrow-raising requests:

Great Expectations.png

[picture of Great Expectations event]

Every mother wants to see her son get ahead in life, so it’s no wonder Tamrust here is so eager to please. In my case, however, I’m more interested in getting a-head in a rather different way: seeing my rival Sholah get their comeuppance would be a mighty fine way to do a deal.

All Hail The High Chieftain.png

[picture of All Hail The High Chieftain event]

Ah, Tamrust, you shouldn’t have!

The Sad​


In the game’s time period, as it is today, the death of a loved one can leave the bereaved with so many conflicting feelings. Regret over lost time together, sadness at the knowledge that the departed will no longer be around, perhaps even relief at their suffering finally ending.

In one of our new events, a visit from one person to their friend’s deathbed can go a few different ways. Perhaps you are the one bedridden, simply waiting for death. What would you desire from your friend? Or maybe you are the one visiting them, your lifelong friend, with whom you have forged so many memories and shared so much of your life with. What would you do when faced with this scene?

A Friend till the End.png

[picture of A Friend till the End]

The possibilities here are rather wide. That third option you see is somewhat randomised and based on the bedridden person’s personality. Sometimes you won’t have a third option at all. Sometimes, as you can see above, you may even have to do your beloved friend the ultimate favour. Sometimes, as seen below, you’ll come into possession of a small gift.

Receiving the Pendant.png

[picture of receiving the pendant]

Lavender Jade Pendant.png

[picture of the pendant itself]

Whilst seeing your friend breathe their last is desperately sad, there’s also something to be said for the brutal moments when a sibling rivalry gets way out of hand. Ambition and envy drives the closest of brothers and sisters to do the most heinous of things.

Night Terrors.png

[picture of Night Terrors event]

This rare event may fire if your sibling doesn’t like you, and happens to have a trait that might cause them to view you as dispensable in the pursuit of their wider ambitions. Of course, you’re not going down without a fight; the throne is yours and as the saying goes, might does indeed make right:

Night Terrors Denied Ambitions.png

[picture of Night Terrors Denied Ambitions event]

The young king survives this particular attempt from their sibling, but their relationship is irreparably damaged. Suffice to say, however, much nastier outcomes could well have arisen. Luck and wits will save many a monarch, but sooner or later your wits fade and your luck runs thin…

The Zany​


Like the glorious sprinkles on this Medieval doughnut (which were actually a thing: there’s references in The Forme of Cury to honeyed fried dough ‘Cryspels’ which were essentially the precursors to modern doughnuts!) we of course have some of the slightly more unusual events that you can stumble across during your rule.

The subject of this DLC made for fertile grounds for such events. Interpersonal relationships are at the heart of CK3, and how you interact with others depends often on whether they’re your foe or your friend. In order for you to have a friend, of course, you must first have a person to be friends with. I know, I know, it sounds obvious, but they do say the real miracle Jesus performed was having 12 close friends in his thirties. Well, that, and also the following:

The Face of Jesus.png

[picture of The Face of Jesus event]

If you take your religious leader’s excitement and fervour at face value, you’ll not just acquire a friend, but also a Delicious Face of Jesus artifact:

Delicious Face of Jesus.png

[picture of Delicious Face of Jesus]

Of course, if you dare to doubt their obviously-correct opinion on divinely-shaped confectionery, you’re dead certain to make a rival of them. Or, as you can see in the third option, there’s an even more dramatic decision to be made. What price do you put on friendship versus the chance to literally eat Jesus’ face?

Mind you, there’s some things you can find that shouldn’t be eaten. Bog bodies are known worldwide, but are particularly prevalent in Northwestern Europe. Such findings continue to intrigue archeologists, but I suspect finding one would be rather more of an unpleasant surprise for your average Medieval child:

The Body in the Bog.png

[picture of Bog Body event]

This event ties nicely in with the new memory system; sometimes if someone in your realm dies in that particular county, they have a chance of turning up here! Now I won’t spoil any particular outcomes to this small event chain, but naturally all is always exactly as it seems.

You just found a body in a bog. These things do happen. It’s perfectly normal.

For a Feud Dollars More​


Petty rivalries are an inextricable part of any Crusader Kings game. I’ve been a CK player for years, and I know exactly what I - and all of you - get up to when someone wrongs you. After all, who amongst us has not exterminated an entire dynasty for the vicious crime of their grandfather once having accidentally tripped over your dog?

A Damnable House.png

[picture of A Damnable House event]

Thankfully, you now have the opportunity to codify your hatred for those hated dog-trippers! House Feuds are a new system that can be triggered by a wide range of sources. It could be as simple as your House Head sharing a mutual dislike of each other with another House Head and those embers sputtering into the flames of true conflict. It could be as serious as a family member of your House being killed by a member of the other House, or as complicated as the two having competing Claims.

These Feuds can be inherited between generations, ebbing and flowing, each party exacting a toll from the other. These squabbles can escalate to horrific ends if all parties continue to seek revenge upon the other, and only the actions of calm heads can end it; but even then, often only once the debt has been repaid or one family has suffered so horribly under the other that they will surely never recover.

I was going to give you a runthrough of some of the 31 events (remember: for us, it still only counts as one!) that comprise House Feuds, but when I was playing around with Friends and Foes this last Sunday on a post-PDXCon rest day, I happened to hit upon a perfect mini-AAR to show you to illustrate exactly how these can generate organically. You join me on the steppes of modern-day Ukraine and Kazakhstan, where I am waging a war against a neighbour to expand my territory.

(A small note: I am playing with some custom gamerules including equal genders and majority-bisexual, hence why things might seem a little unusual with who is leading armies and the like. Or, if you’re one of those super cool and wonderfully attractive people who also play with those rules, high five, consider your ruleset officially dev-approved)

Fallen Daughter.png

[Picture of Fallen Daughter]

As battle concludes, it is with no small amount of grief that I receive the news that my knight, daughter and heir Princess Sarantay has fallen in battle at the hands of the vile and base Chieftain Malyy. And we know him to be vile and base, for who else but a true monster would snatch away my daughter’s life from the world so cruelly?

I try to put it out of my head - as much as any parent can do so with the death of their beloved child - but the flames of hatred still lick balefully at my heart. During the day it is all I can think about, and at night dreams of vengeance and retaliation poison my mind. Try as I might, I can’t bring myself to move on and let Allah enact retribution: I must pursue this myself.

lure-of-vendetta-png.873969

[Picture of House Feud 1]

Brutal Feud.png

[Picture of House Feud 2]

Ongoing House Feud.png

[Picture of House Feud 3]

Now, I won’t go too in-depth on what exactly transpired in the years this feud went on for. One such action involved seducing the enemy head of house’s wife - a fairly impressive feat, despite how sprightly I am at 68 years old - and revealing him for the cuckold he was. This disrespect was met with bared knives, and a minor member of my dynasty was struck down from the shadows.

It was an escalation I would not - could not! - ignore. House Kurgani were all too ready to unsheathe blades, but they soon found themselves on the wrong end of them. Three murders, one after the other, left them without the flower of their youth. The feud was clearly in our favour, the rival house a shadow of what they once were, and it even left me considering whether it was worth continuing. After all, Malyy was a mere chieftain, and I a mighty Khan. Surely it was time to let bygones be bygones?

Outclassed Adversaries.png

[Picture of House Feud 4]

Yet every time I considered it, all I could think of in my mind’s eye was my precious daughter. The feud would continue until the damnable Malyy was dead. I called my trustiest cutthroat and sent him on one final mission…

It is strange how fate works. The hired knife was drawing closer and closer still to Malyy, aided by no less than his own wife - who it seemed had grown rather fond of me, not that that’s surprising - but it appeared someone else had got there first. Perhaps he had many enemies. Perhaps, even, a member of my own house had enacted their own revenge. Either way, he now lies in the cold ground.

Life in Color.png

[Picture of House Feud 5]

(Another note: This event isn’t actually part of the House Feud ones, but instead is part of a reworked couple of events when Best Friends or Nemeses die and can happen to anyone lucky enough to have their worst antagonist die on them. Suffice to say, that Vengeful option there does some fun stuff…)


The blood has been spilt, the eye has been taken for the eye. There is no longer any reason to prolong this blood feud. House Dulo has conclusively proven the dominance of our bloodline and emerges triumphant from the crucible of intra-house conflict.

The Next Enemy.png

[Picture of House Feud 6]

I’ll leave you to discover most of the rest of the peaks and troughs of the cycle of ceaseless vengeance that signify House Feuds, but I do want to leave on one particularly interesting note. Malyy’s son, Tyueykezhut, was grateful that the bloodshed had ended, even if House Kurgani were crushed underneath our boot heel. He didn’t let go of the past, though, and the fire that once consumed my heart no doubt now consumes his; a grim reminder of how he spent his childhood raised to hate anyone who bears the name Dulo. And so the flames of open conflict die away to smouldering embers, all too ready for the right person to come along and nurse them back into a roaring crescendo once more…

Gained Nemesis.png

[Picture of House Feud 7]

That will be all from me for today! Thank you very much for reading this, my very first dev diary! Friends & Foes releases this week on the 8th of September, and I hope you enjoy your time with it.

Nick-name.png
 

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poliniyo

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Very much something i think should be in the base game.

It is not uncommon for multiple realms to band together to fight a common threat, even if they are not allies in any other regard.
Coalitions would be a great addition. (Would probably put a dampener on the newly-improved mongol horde, though. - maybe the ai willingness to form a coalition against them should be artificially reduced.)
Europa Universalis offers a much more complex challenge, it's great.

I understand that, in addition to a game, this is a business, there is no discussion about this, but they really should add greater difficulty to the game from its release, then you can add everything you want to liven it up, but if in a game of strategy there is no challenge, there is no game.
 
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SeraphAscending

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Europa Universalis offers a much more complex challenge, it's great.

I understand that, in addition to a game, this is a business, there is no discussion about this, but they really should add greater difficulty to the game from its release, then you can add everything you want to liven it up, but if in a game of strategy there is no challenge, there is no game.
To be fair, the game is at least highly moddable and you can make it more difficult yourself, if you are a veteran.
But yeah, just as i like that there is an "easy" mode, there should also be a "hard" mode.
 
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blackninja9939

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Very much something i think should be in the base game.

It is not uncommon for multiple realms to band together to fight a common threat, even if they are not allies in any other regard.
Coalitions would be a great addition. (Would probably put a dampener on the newly-improved mongol horde, though. - maybe the ai willingness to form a coalition against them should be artificially reduced.)
Y'all must have not been there when CK2 added a mechanic about that and it got absolutely crucified...

I think we all agree there is room for making the game more challenging, but some of this stuff was tried before and deemed by us and/or the community to be a sub-par solution.
 
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SeraphAscending

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Y'all must have not been there when CK2 added a mechanic about that and it got absolutely crucified...

I think we all agree there is room for making the game more challenging, but some of this stuff was tried before and deemed by us and/or the community to be a sub-par solution.
Thanks for the info, i was indeed not there, when that happened, because i never quite got into CK2.
 
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johnty5

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Y'all must have not been there when CK2 added a mechanic about that and it got absolutely crucified...

I think we all agree there is room for making the game more challenging, but some of this stuff was tried before and deemed by us and/or the community to be a sub-par solution.

I remember people not being happy with it, though I always thought it was ok - definitely better than not having it.

That said, I was thinking about something more like EU4's system than CK2's. CK's was a bit of a blunt instrument where you were either a threat or not - and, if you were, trying to expand resulted in everyone in a particular categpory declaring war on you. I like EU4's model where realms feel a level of threat based on how aggressive you are and how far away they are. Feels much more dynamic and scaling - rather than CK2's "now I have to sit and wait for x year before I can do anything".
 
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vandevere

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I remember people not being happy with it, though I always thought it was ok - definitely better than not having it.

That said, I was thinking about something more like EU4's system than CK2's. CK's was a bit of a blunt instrument where you were either a threat or not - and, if you were, trying to expand resulted in everyone in a particular categpory declaring war on you. I like EU4's model where realms feel a level of threat based on how aggressive you are and how far away they are. Feels much more dynamic and scaling - rather than CK2's "now I have to sit and wait for x year before I can do anything".
I remember that too. eventually, the devs made it a Game Rule, so those who wanted it could have it, and those who didn't want it weren't saddled with it...
 
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ck3enjoyer

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Some rulers in my observer games are absolutely insanely powerful. 9/9 holdings, 2400 gold (+42 per month), 5/5 all types of maa, killed his younger brother to get kingdom of Aquitaine, fully upgraded capital, court grandeur 9/10. And it's only year 970!


This guys friends ^

Honestly it feels like this is quite an experienced player who somehow joined my single player game.


Can't wait to actually play after some of my favourite mods will be updated. This is probably my favourite patch so far by the looks of it.
 
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Ilya Belkin

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Playing my first game with F&F and enjoying the new depths of relationships! One thing I notice, though, is my freshly acquired due to a house feud Rival, still somehow happy to join in alliance with me. I think both Rival and house feud modifiers should apply significant minus to his willingness to join forces. Seems like non-marriage alliances under deffensive negotiations perk fall trough the cracks of otherwise very nice update.

Should I report it as a bug or as a suggestion?

UPD: reported as a bug here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-house-will-accept-alliance-proposal.1541313/
 

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poliniyo

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To be fair, the game is at least highly moddable and you can make it more difficult yourself, if you are a veteran.
But yeah, just as i like that there is an "easy" mode, there should also be a "hard" mode.

The mods help, but they are made to the taste of the modder, many are incomplete and some are abandoned by their creators and stop updating, however, there is no other place to hang on today :)

I really hope Paradox does something about it. The reality is that they have already realized because they have released Bastion and this was one of their objectives, but I think there is a long way to go in this
 
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Toybasher

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Y'all must have not been there when CK2 added a mechanic about that and it got absolutely crucified...

I think we all agree there is room for making the game more challenging, but some of this stuff was tried before and deemed by us and/or the community to be a sub-par solution.
I wouldn't mind it coming back but it would have to be reworked heavily.

The old system had some problems. Peaceful expansion (diplomatically vassalizing someone or inheriting land) would generate threat, as well as your own vassals declaring war on outside land. Once you got big enough your threat would always skyrocket when you gain land period which lead to a lot of waiting around for it to go down by itself. Also, it was tied to "country" and not ruler, although this could lead to cheese like conquer a bunch of land, commit suicide, conquer more land as your heir, etc.

Also at the most extreme levels of threat The Pope would join to defend Islam which is very hard to believe.

I want it to come back, but in an entirely reworked system where characters are more likely to make non-aggression pacts and/or alliances when a neighbor has done a lot of expansion, especially if both parties involved in the alliance had bites taken out of their territory by the aggressor, but no EU-style Aggressive Expansion and coalitions.

It would be more like how threat works in Stellaris, just a modifier that makes the AI more willing to make defensive pacts and such if a neighbor has been doing a lot of conquering, but nothing artificially enforced like EU Coalitions where you can't make one until someone causes enough AE.
 
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grommile

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That said, I was thinking about something more like EU4's system than CK2's. CK's was a bit of a blunt instrument where you were either a threat or not
EU4's coalition system is extremely blunt and almost completely divorced from its supposed historical inspirations.
 
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SeraphAscending

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I wouldn't mind it coming back but it would have to be reworked heavily.

The old system had some problems. Peaceful expansion (diplomatically vassalizing someone or inheriting land) would generate threat, as well as your own vassals declaring war on outside land. Once you got big enough your threat would always skyrocket when you gain land period which lead to a lot of waiting around for it to go down by itself. Also, it was tied to "country" and not ruler, although this could lead to cheese like conquer a bunch of land, commit suicide, conquer more land as your heir, etc.

Also at the most extreme levels of threat The Pope would join to defend Islam which is very hard to believe.

I want it to come back, but in an entirely reworked system where characters are more likely to make non-aggression pacts and/or alliances when a neighbor has done a lot of expansion, especially if both parties involved in the alliance had bites taken out of their territory by the aggressor, but no EU-style Aggressive Expansion and coalitions.

It would be more like how threat works in Stellaris, just a modifier that makes the AI more willing to make defensive pacts and such if a neighbor has been doing a lot of conquering, but nothing artificially enforced like EU Coalitions where you can't make one until someone causes enough AE.
I think making the coalitions defensive pacts instead helps a lot.
That way peaceful expansion would be unhindered entirely. (which is appropriate)

I can see that coalitions starting offensive wars could become very bothersome, very quickly.
Also, thresholds to join coalitions with hostile faiths, rivals, etc. should be rather high. Main factors should probably be proximity to the perceived threat and proximity to the would-be-allies, as well as whether any realms of your culture or faith have been conquered by the threat in recent years. So you're more likely to get a coalition of catholics in central europe, but in the more faith-diverse asia it'd be less banding together with the same threat level.
People do tend to align themselves more the more they feel familiar with them, after all.

It could also lead to forcing the player to expand in less desirable ways. (i.e. coastal conquest of more distant areas instead of the up-for-grabs tasty counties bordering you)
 
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Oglesby

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I don't know, in my case, playing with a Mozarabic county, the king of Asturias has not built anything, zero, buildings in his capital, the number of levies remains the same in 50 years. The great Umayyad the same. If I have seen that the ruler of Granada builds a lot in his capital, this is true, but otherwise nothing.

I assume there will be more Paradox staff activity on this forum. With all due respect, I only want to propose 2 more difficulty levels, because really, the game loses a lot when there is no challenge and conquer half the world in each game. I'm always downloading and testing difficulty and AI rebalance mods and they are more challenging than Bastion, but, in my opinion, this game should let the player choose between more difficulty levels, especially to increase it.

It annoys me a lot because this game is my favorite in strategy, but I don't know what to do anymore.

Paradox Staff: Don't you think a grand strategy game should demand a lot more from the player? for that player who chooses a higher difficulty?

Thank you for everything and very kind to both of you for taking the time to answer me :)
Doesn't some of the Struggle stuff reduce buildings?

Did you look outside of Iberia?
 
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Afinati

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Man, let's be honest. You saw a zany event involving Jesus on a bread and got triggered, thinking the evil liberal swedes and forumgoers have some hidden anti-christian agenda - or worse, are afraid of muslims. Yet you still cannot give one, ONE example of an equivalent event for muslims, or even buddhists or pagans. In fact, you don't even know if there are similar events to other religions - but, just because the devs ignored your first very loaded post, you jumped to conclusions.

The reality is, content designers are more familiar with Christianity. They have deadlines. The project manager or whoever else is in charge focused, as always, in Christian Europe. So Bread Jesus is the best they are going to do right now.

If you really want muslims (and buddhists, and pagans - seriously, why did you only focus on Islam?) to have an equivalent event, then by all means suggest it. But your concern trolling is really tiresome, this doesn't need to be another front for the culture war.


EDIT-- wait did you seriously join the forum just to discuss this issue?
And the wrong forum, at that. Creative Assembly is across the North Sea, friend.
 
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Thifiell

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It would be cool to have generations that keep loyal friends. Like typical game of thrones situation, enemy killed your father and someone who was loyal to your father protects you and willingly become your bodyguard and protector. The winter is coming ... :) dynasty fights maybe? very realistic stuff
Also I would be happy to keep good relations with Sweden as Rurik children. That is real international friendship.
 
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BrotherJonathan

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It's also a history thing though. Multi-nation coalitions happened a lot in EU4's time frame later on. So it makes a lot more sense there. At least in theory.
Maybe have the ability to form coalitions tied to a late-era innovation like Rightful Ownership or Court Officials?
 

Voodoo Lilium

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Y'all must have not been there when CK2 added a mechanic about that and it got absolutely crucified...

I think we all agree there is room for making the game more challenging, but some of this stuff was tried before and deemed by us and/or the community to be a sub-par solution.
Have other possible solutions been investigating since then? I'm just curious, I feel like it would in theory be a great addition to the game, but I imagine getting it to work well is quite complex.
 
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Tiax

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I was not a fan of coalitions, but maybe there is space for something like increased willingness to form marriage alliances between AI nations that are both threatened by a shared enemy. I think there would also have to be changes to the way the AI looks for marriages to make that work - my understanding is that the current system just picks a handful of random courts and only looks at them.

But at a higher level, for me the late(ish) game is not the biggest problem. It's the early game - even starting as a count, it's often trivial to become a king before your first ruler dies. In most games, no one *ever* declares war on me. CBs are handed out like candy. You blaze through what should be the challenging part of the game so fast that there's nothing left to do after a generation or two.
 
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