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As you know, we are quickly approaching the end of times, as a cycle of the Mayan calendar is about to end on December 21. Not to be outdone by the Mayans, we are doing our part to hasten the coming apocalypse by releasing a totally unhistorical DLC for Crusader Kings II called Sunset Invasion. The forum response to this minor and completely optional DLC was interesting to say the least. We expected a mixed response, but certainly not the degree of passion we've been witnessing.

The DLC, for those of you who don't know, features an invasion of Europe by an earlier and far more powerful Aztec civilization than we know from history, at some point after 1250. Arriving on vessels suspiciously similar to Norse long ships, Aztec explorers first make contact with a random coastal lord, offering obsidian beads and other exotic trinkets in exchange for land. Soon after, a huge invasion fleet arrives, disgorging tens of thousands of disciplined warriors. After their initial conquests, a reinforcement fleet might arrive, similar to how the Mongol invasions work. The Aztecs are pagans worshiping terrible and blood-thirsty gods, scaring the Muslims and Christians of Europe and North Africa witless with their mass sacrifices of live victims from among the subjugated peoples.

SunsetInvasion_Disease.jpg

In addition to the main events, Sunset Invasion features a load of flavor events, for example when the invaders conquer key cities, when they spread a new disease or when there is news from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. The Aztecs have unique portraits, units, and on-map shields. The typical cycle has them conquering a large swathe of land until they run out of steam and the inevitable Crusades and Jihads start to reverse the tide. Meanwhile, the Aztec Cuauhxicalli (altar stone bowls) will be overflowing with the hearts of good Christians and Muslims...

SunsetInvasion_Aztecs.jpg

So why did we decide to make this DLC in the first place? Well, the kernel of the idea goes way back to the original Crusader Kings and the Mongol invasion events. Playing on or near the eastern edge of the map is dangerous; almost suicidal if you are not strong enough by the 13th century. So, we've frequently joked about having a similar but rare event on the western side of the map, an invasion by something out of the Atlantic ocean to offset the imbalance a little bit; Atlanteans, Deep Ones, Vinlanders... or Aztecs. It's obviously a pretty crazy proposition and we never expected to put it into the game, but then someone mentioned a similar idea on the forum and the powers that be decided to greenlight it for a laugh.

SunsetInvasion_News.jpg

Now, let me offer you a rare insight into the psyche of the average Paradox dev (especially the veterans among us): we all love history and we love making historical games, but when you've spent a decade of your life delving into such crucial issues as getting the regnal numbers right for the Dukes of Aquitaine, ensuring that Eustace of Boulogne has his historical mustache, that the Pops of Chur have the right cultural and religious composition and that Operation Weserübung always happens roughly when it should, some of us yearn to do something wacky just once in a while. That's why Saint Andrew is Scottish in CKII, why there is a mission for Aragon to seize the throne of Gondar in EU3... and why we did Sunset Invasion. Not to worry though, we are not going to abandon our historical games or the attention to detail that makes them unique. That is why Sunset Invasion is optional. Just don't buy it if you don't like it.

Let me end with some points to assuage the fears of the historicity hardliners and squash some false rumors:
  • Sunset Invasion is a minor tongue-in-cheek DLC. We do not count it as a main expansion.
  • We have never said how many major DLC/expansions we will do. In fact, we do not know - it's mostly up to you.
  • The making of this DLC did not affect our regular release schedule at all. Most of the work was outsourced, done on our spare time or slotted in when someone had a bit of extra time.
  • Paradox Development Studio is not about to change course for its historical games.

Until next time, when I'll probably talk about our next major DLC. :)
 
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Orinsul

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will the game instantly end on conversion to the aztec religion/play command switching to an aztec as with republics or theocracies?
i,e, are they unplayable owing to not having playable=yes and never being on map at any start date or hardcodedly so in response to not having events for them or for others of their effects?
And will their graphics/CoA frames be useable in mods for unrelated religion groups?
 

Cerwyn

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Not your cup of tea? Don't buy it, that's the way consumers protest a product.

I'm sorry, but I kinda have to disagree with you here.

Just boycotting a product doesn't really solve anything. It doesn't make publishers/developers aware of the problems you have with it in most cases. Easiest way to get the publishers/developers to realize people are unhappy with the product is to complain about it on their site - isn't that one of the reasons why every single video game company out there has its own forums? To have people provide feedback?

I mean, yeah, if very few people bought this product, Paradox would be aware that people dislike it and most likely wouldn't do that sort of stuff in the future. But actually complaining about it is far more likely to raise awareness to the issue people have. Not to mention that there might be plenty of people out there who don't really like the concept of this DLC but will end up buying it because it's so cheap or when it goes on sale or something.

Telling people "If you don't like it, don't buy it, just stop complaining." is in general a terrible line of thinking. All video game companies out there, no matter how great, are made up from people. People who can make mistakes. People who might have a different view on something than the people who buy their games. So it's absolutely imperative, for both the good of the company and good of the customers, for there to be an atmosphere where people can voice their complaints without fearing rebuke. "Don't like it, don't buy it.", the recent explosion of criticism of gamers over "entitlement" and the like, are all terrible for gaming in general, and I hope that sort of sentiment will die soon, as I believe they are doing a lot of damage to the gaming industry by alienating players and making companies seem heedless of criticism.



Now, to voice my own opinion on this subject:

I have to admit, I am kinda disappointed with this DLC. Don't get me wrong, I will eventually buy it and play a game with it once or twice, but I still would have preferred a more "realistic" DLC, or something that expands the gameplay further. People want playable theocracies, Papacy, pagans, playing as bishops and advancing through the church, etc. - a lot of different things. So it just kinda seems like a "waste of effort" to have a "random" DLC like this one, which seems to add to the game something people haven't really asked for while there are still a lot of issues with the game.

Another complaint over this that I have is that, in my own experience, this isn't really a needed feature currently. From what I understand, they wanted to "balance the game" by having Western Europe experience an invasion similar to the one the east experiences with Mongols. But the thing is, currently muslims (Fatimids, really.) seem so overpowered that in all my games, if I don't get involved to beat them down, they conquer Greece and most of the Byzantine Empire, then southern Italy, then get involved in the Reconquista and expand all the way to France. So, with Western Europe already having so much issues with muslims, I don't really see the point of making it even harder for them by adding Aztecs as well.

I also dislike just how "fantastical" this specific scenario is. Sure, every scenario for this would be fantastical, but they could have at least tried to make it more realistic. If it has to be an invasion from the Americas, they could have made it be a Vinlander invasion. Instead of the Viking settlements in the Americas being abandoned, they could have prospered, conquered the native tribes, mixed with them and became a Viking-Native mixed culture who later decided to come back to the lands their ancestors came from. Sure, this could hardly be considered a realistic scenario, but it still makes more sense than Aztec invasion. Or they could have went with Almohads, as someone here suggested. Just make them show up in northern Africa and "code" them to expand towards Europe.

I understand that this is a very small DLC, that they didn't waste a lot of effort in making it, that they did it in spare time, that they're still working on other content and that this DLC won't mean they won't develop something else as they don't have a finite amount of DLC they can release, and I understand how they might feel disappointed at the community for being so negative towards something they perceived to be a small, "fun" feature added to the game to make it more interesting to the playerbase. I know a lot of people here criticising this are being somewhat unreasonable and overly emotional over this issue. But still, I wish this effort was used towards something else.

Oh, and I'm also kinda bitter because I wish more effort was spend towards releasing more content (and hopefully an expansion) for Victoria II, as it seems Crusader Kings 2 with constant DLCs and Europa Universalis with the new game are getting all the attention.
 

gorillacakes

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Actually it shouldn't be. The first recorded case of Syphilis is ~1495, after the events of CK2 are over.

For those who are sceptical of the whole syphilis thing, new evidence is pointing to an earlier period of infection in Europe...a LOT earlier:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11952322


I was wondering why there was a step pyramid in the religious icons file in gfx folder....I had a sneaking suspicion that we would get an expanded map west....which would have been interesting. I have to say I would prefer a DLC for republics, pagans/zoroastrians or expanding the map east a little bit but to be honest this DLC looks like a great bit of a laugh to make (and hopefully to play). I might very well give it whirl after I watch a few youtube lets plays.
 
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WeissRaben

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For those who are sceptical of the whole syphilis thing, new evidence is pointing to an earlier period of infection in Europe...a LOT earlier:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11952322


I was wondering why there was a step pyramid in the religious icons file in gfx folder....I had a sneaking suspicion that we would get an expanded map west....which would have been interesting. I have to say I would prefer a DLC for republics, pagans/zoroastrians or expanding the map east a little bit but to be honest this DLC looks like a great bit of a laugh to make (and hopefully to play). I might very well give it whirl after I watch a few youtube lets plays.

Well yeah, I expect it to be quite fun. Which, added to the whole "there is another DLC on the table and this was made in the meantime" (that a lot of people just don't get), makes it a good age to play CK2. :D
 

gorillacakes

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Well yeah, I expect it to be quite fun. Which, added to the whole "there is another DLC on the table and this was made in the meantime" (that a lot of people just don't get), makes it a good age to play CK2. :D

For sure, I'm definitely not getting my knickers in a twist over this one. I want to see what game play is like before I dive in though. It took me until last week or so to get the ruler designer once I found out that I could use Patrum Scuta with it. I'll probably get this for the light bit of wimsy that it presents. Didn't see that about the other DLC, good times indeed!
 

Leon_Aditzu

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this dlc will may make the game a world war between aztecs vs mongols or Player empire fighting a 2 fronts war with aztec in the west and the mongol in the east. 1250 will be a hard year
 

gorillacakes

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Bar the crazyness, that what'll make it a draw factor for some I guess, a terrific challenge for the experienced player! Looking forward to the dev diary updates.
 
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While I wish we could simply create what we love because we want to, I understand the need for money, and I think it's great if this is another way you guys can make money in order to bring out more DLC and create more games. However, if you guys are really bored doing the same thing time and time again, I wouldn't mind seeing a fictional game at some point. For me, I would just rather them be separate; although, the DLC idea is fine as long important features are not included within the DLC. With your games becoming more accessible recently, however, I think a fictional game would do well. Your biggest challenge is people being upset if you're spending your time creating something fictional, as you've seen. It always feels like it's time for an update for one of your games, like EU now. We really just want everything...
 

Dracko81

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While I wish we could simply create what we love because we want to, I understand the need for money, and I think it's great if this is another way you guys can make money in order to bring out more DLC and create more games. However, if you guys are really bored doing the same thing time and time again, I wouldn't mind seeing a fictional game at some point. For me, I would just rather them be separate; although, the DLC idea is fine as long important features are not included within the DLC. With your games becoming more accessible recently, however, I think a fictional game would do well. Your biggest challenge is people being upset if you're spending your time creating something fictional, as you've seen. It always feels like it's time for an update for one of your games, like EU now. We really just want everything...

4x Space strategy? :)
 

King

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Oh, and I'm also kinda bitter because I wish more effort was spend towards releasing more content (and hopefully an expansion) for Victoria II, as it seems Crusader Kings 2 with constant DLCs and Europa Universalis with the new game are getting all the attention.

I am going to pick up on this comment because it is important. Victoria 2 uses our old DLC system were you must own every previous DLC before you can buy the next one. This creates a problem for us because we have to be damn sure that you are going to like what we make because otherwise it is over for Victoria 2 development (and we like Victoria 2 so we don't want that to happen). This makes it harder for us to make DLC for Victoria 2 which is why you see less of it. CK2 with it's take it or leave it model allows us to take more risks and generate more content.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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I am going to pick up on this comment because it is important. Victoria 2 uses our old DLC system were you must own every previous DLC before you can buy the next one. This creates a problem for us because we have to be damn sure that you are going to like what we make because otherwise it is over for Victoria 2 development (and we like Victoria 2 so we don't want that to happen). This makes it harder for us to make DLC for Victoria 2 which is why you see less of it. CK2 with it's take it or leave it model allows us to take more risks and generate more content.

do you expect all future Paradox games to use the CK2 model?
 

Gatkramp

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do you expect all future Paradox games to use the CK2 model?

That's what they originally proposed. And it's definitely something I can get behind.
 

King

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do you expect all future Paradox games to use the CK2 model?

Let's clarify one thing before I answer, this isn't actuallly my decision to make, so you are getting a personal opinion here rather than official company gospel. However, my answer is yes. You, the fans, seems broadly happy with the system and since you pay our wages this is quite important. The second reason as I have allready alluded too is it that it is better system to use from a development point of view. It frees us up to do interesting things which is what we want to do.
 

RedRalphWiggum

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Let's clarify one thing before I answer, this isn't actuallly my decision to make, so you are getting a personal opinion here rather than official company gospel. However, my answer is yes. You, the fans, seems broadly happy with the system and since you pay our wages this is quite important. The second reason as I have allready alluded too is it that it is better system to use from a development point of view. It frees us up to do interesting things which is what we want to do.

Cool, I'm all for it. I reckon had V2 had it then much of the stuff that people have been asking for would have been done by now, and I think it's going to work very wel on EU4. I look forward to seeing it in V3 and Rome 2!
 

Sarenarass

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Always liked the idea of enemies teaming up for a common good. Those enemies being the Catholics and Muslims and the common enemy being the Aztecs. This may of been answered (if anyone else knows feel free to respond) but will Aztecs be hard coded and unable to play like Theocracies or will the easy file change for "Pagans = Playable" let you play as the Aztecs? (With numerous bugs I'm sure)
 

Dracko81

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Always liked the idea of enemies teaming up for a common good. Those enemies being the Catholics and Muslims and the common enemy being the Aztecs. This may of been answered (if anyone else knows feel free to respond) but will Aztecs be hard coded and unable to play like Theocracies or will the easy file change for "Pagans = Playable" let you play as the Aztecs? (With numerous bugs I'm sure)

From memory back when they were first announced, they said not playable like the mongols. So you may be able to do some fiddling to become the new Emperor of the Aztecs.

I also believe there was hints that they would be made playable at a later stage - probably if they do a pagan dlc.
 

Goosecreature

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Always liked the idea of enemies teaming up for a common good. Those enemies being the Catholics and Muslims and the common enemy being the Aztecs. This may of been answered (if anyone else knows feel free to respond) but will Aztecs be hard coded and unable to play like Theocracies or will the easy file change for "Pagans = Playable" let you play as the Aztecs? (With numerous bugs I'm sure)

The easy file change should work.

If you are converted to their religion during play, you can keep playing, just as you can if you're converted to any other pagan religion currently.