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As you know, we are quickly approaching the end of times, as a cycle of the Mayan calendar is about to end on December 21. Not to be outdone by the Mayans, we are doing our part to hasten the coming apocalypse by releasing a totally unhistorical DLC for Crusader Kings II called Sunset Invasion. The forum response to this minor and completely optional DLC was interesting to say the least. We expected a mixed response, but certainly not the degree of passion we've been witnessing.

The DLC, for those of you who don't know, features an invasion of Europe by an earlier and far more powerful Aztec civilization than we know from history, at some point after 1250. Arriving on vessels suspiciously similar to Norse long ships, Aztec explorers first make contact with a random coastal lord, offering obsidian beads and other exotic trinkets in exchange for land. Soon after, a huge invasion fleet arrives, disgorging tens of thousands of disciplined warriors. After their initial conquests, a reinforcement fleet might arrive, similar to how the Mongol invasions work. The Aztecs are pagans worshiping terrible and blood-thirsty gods, scaring the Muslims and Christians of Europe and North Africa witless with their mass sacrifices of live victims from among the subjugated peoples.

SunsetInvasion_Disease.jpg

In addition to the main events, Sunset Invasion features a load of flavor events, for example when the invaders conquer key cities, when they spread a new disease or when there is news from the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. The Aztecs have unique portraits, units, and on-map shields. The typical cycle has them conquering a large swathe of land until they run out of steam and the inevitable Crusades and Jihads start to reverse the tide. Meanwhile, the Aztec Cuauhxicalli (altar stone bowls) will be overflowing with the hearts of good Christians and Muslims...

SunsetInvasion_Aztecs.jpg

So why did we decide to make this DLC in the first place? Well, the kernel of the idea goes way back to the original Crusader Kings and the Mongol invasion events. Playing on or near the eastern edge of the map is dangerous; almost suicidal if you are not strong enough by the 13th century. So, we've frequently joked about having a similar but rare event on the western side of the map, an invasion by something out of the Atlantic ocean to offset the imbalance a little bit; Atlanteans, Deep Ones, Vinlanders... or Aztecs. It's obviously a pretty crazy proposition and we never expected to put it into the game, but then someone mentioned a similar idea on the forum and the powers that be decided to greenlight it for a laugh.

SunsetInvasion_News.jpg

Now, let me offer you a rare insight into the psyche of the average Paradox dev (especially the veterans among us): we all love history and we love making historical games, but when you've spent a decade of your life delving into such crucial issues as getting the regnal numbers right for the Dukes of Aquitaine, ensuring that Eustace of Boulogne has his historical mustache, that the Pops of Chur have the right cultural and religious composition and that Operation Weserübung always happens roughly when it should, some of us yearn to do something wacky just once in a while. That's why Saint Andrew is Scottish in CKII, why there is a mission for Aragon to seize the throne of Gondar in EU3... and why we did Sunset Invasion. Not to worry though, we are not going to abandon our historical games or the attention to detail that makes them unique. That is why Sunset Invasion is optional. Just don't buy it if you don't like it.

Let me end with some points to assuage the fears of the historicity hardliners and squash some false rumors:
  • Sunset Invasion is a minor tongue-in-cheek DLC. We do not count it as a main expansion.
  • We have never said how many major DLC/expansions we will do. In fact, we do not know - it's mostly up to you.
  • The making of this DLC did not affect our regular release schedule at all. Most of the work was outsourced, done on our spare time or slotted in when someone had a bit of extra time.
  • Paradox Development Studio is not about to change course for its historical games.

Until next time, when I'll probably talk about our next major DLC. :)
 
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Serathion

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I forgot to ask, will there be a checker in the options menu ingame to turn on/off the aztec invasion? Otherwise this might become a problem for players who use steam, since one can not choose which dlc to install after purchase.
 

Veldmaarschalk

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I forgot to ask, will there be a checker in the options menu ingame to turn on/off the aztec invasion? Otherwise this might become a problem for players who use steam, since one can not choose which dlc to install after purchase.

You can turn of/on DLC's in the launcher, each time you start a game
 

Yakdast

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One question: why Aztec invasion only? Where are Mayans?

Mayans aren't Aztecs, they don't even come close to Aztecs - they're totally different people. Aztecs are desert nation, that built its civilization on oases in central Mexico. Mayans are a jungle civilization, which is much older than Aztecs.
Will there be Mayans?
 

Orinsul

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One question: why Aztec invasion only? Where are Mayans?

Mayans aren't Aztecs, they don't even come close to Aztecs - they're totally different people. Aztecs are desert nation, that built its civilization on oases in central Mexico. Mayans are a jungle civilization, which is much older than Aztecs.
Will there be Mayans?

Probably not, theyve gone with Aztecs, probably it can be assumed from what text has been shown that theyre arent mayans on account of these aztecs being massively bigger, theyre southern frontline is against the incas after all that heavily implies a lack of non-aztec-assimilated mayans
 

BurningEGO

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I'm sorry, but I kinda have to disagree with you here.

Just boycotting a product doesn't really solve anything. It doesn't make publishers/developers aware of the problems you have with it in most cases. Easiest way to get the publishers/developers to realize people are unhappy with the product is to complain about it on their site - isn't that one of the reasons why every single video game company out there has its own forums? To have people provide feedback?

I mean, yeah, if very few people bought this product, Paradox would be aware that people dislike it and most likely wouldn't do that sort of stuff in the future. But actually complaining about it is far more likely to raise awareness to the issue people have. Not to mention that there might be plenty of people out there who don't really like the concept of this DLC but will end up buying it because it's so cheap or when it goes on sale or something.

Telling people "If you don't like it, don't buy it, just stop complaining." is in general a terrible line of thinking. All video game companies out there, no matter how great, are made up from people. People who can make mistakes. People who might have a different view on something than the people who buy their games. So it's absolutely imperative, for both the good of the company and good of the customers, for there to be an atmosphere where people can voice their complaints without fearing rebuke. "Don't like it, don't buy it.", the recent explosion of criticism of gamers over "entitlement" and the like, are all terrible for gaming in general, and I hope that sort of sentiment will die soon, as I believe they are doing a lot of damage to the gaming industry by alienating players and making companies seem heedless of criticism.



Now, to voice my own opinion on this subject:

I have to admit, I am kinda disappointed with this DLC. Don't get me wrong, I will eventually buy it and play a game with it once or twice, but I still would have preferred a more "realistic" DLC, or something that expands the gameplay further. People want playable theocracies, Papacy, pagans, playing as bishops and advancing through the church, etc. - a lot of different things. So it just kinda seems like a "waste of effort" to have a "random" DLC like this one, which seems to add to the game something people haven't really asked for while there are still a lot of issues with the game.

Another complaint over this that I have is that, in my own experience, this isn't really a needed feature currently. From what I understand, they wanted to "balance the game" by having Western Europe experience an invasion similar to the one the east experiences with Mongols. But the thing is, currently muslims (Fatimids, really.) seem so overpowered that in all my games, if I don't get involved to beat them down, they conquer Greece and most of the Byzantine Empire, then southern Italy, then get involved in the Reconquista and expand all the way to France. So, with Western Europe already having so much issues with muslims, I don't really see the point of making it even harder for them by adding Aztecs as well.

I also dislike just how "fantastical" this specific scenario is. Sure, every scenario for this would be fantastical, but they could have at least tried to make it more realistic. If it has to be an invasion from the Americas, they could have made it be a Vinlander invasion. Instead of the Viking settlements in the Americas being abandoned, they could have prospered, conquered the native tribes, mixed with them and became a Viking-Native mixed culture who later decided to come back to the lands their ancestors came from. Sure, this could hardly be considered a realistic scenario, but it still makes more sense than Aztec invasion. Or they could have went with Almohads, as someone here suggested. Just make them show up in northern Africa and "code" them to expand towards Europe.

I understand that this is a very small DLC, that they didn't waste a lot of effort in making it, that they did it in spare time, that they're still working on other content and that this DLC won't mean they won't develop something else as they don't have a finite amount of DLC they can release, and I understand how they might feel disappointed at the community for being so negative towards something they perceived to be a small, "fun" feature added to the game to make it more interesting to the playerbase. I know a lot of people here criticising this are being somewhat unreasonable and overly emotional over this issue. But still, I wish this effort was used towards something else.

Oh, and I'm also kinda bitter because I wish more effort was spend towards releasing more content (and hopefully an expansion) for Victoria II, as it seems Crusader Kings 2 with constant DLCs and Europa Universalis with the new game are getting all the attention.

+1

I usually buy all the DLC even the ones i dont like when it is at 50% or 75% discount on steam. 1€ or 2€ are hardly a problem to me.

But there are so many other things where paradox could had invested their time at... Aztecs invading Europe? Pu-lease.

Either way, you said everything i wanted to say - i feel exactly the same way.
 

NewbieOne

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Hey, guys. As one of the most vocal unsupporters of ahistorical changes I've got to say a great idea. I understand the psyche part you wrote about and it's probably the same reason why people play games like CK2. You know about history, you want to do something wacky once in a while. Alternative history is cool and I'm actually somewhat happy to see it in CK2 in the form of a DLC.

Speaking of which, and this is not the hidden agenda of the entire post but just a related thing, I would like to suggest--but you probably won't do it anyway--putting the Russian Empire and the Scandinavian de iure empires and a number of other such into a DLC-like format. On and off switch. Historical here, alternative there. If a player feels like going historical, he ticks here. If he feels like going alternative, he goes there.

Also, if you're into exotic things, I guess the vanilla could see some religious and trade missions, Marco Polo style. Or the Franco-Mongol alliance or the Crusader-Mamluk anti-Mongol front that the other part of the elites in K. of J. had in mind. Then there was that thing Richard Lionheart had with Saladin, which could attach to any significant CK2 crusade or jihad opponents. Or something like the Hundred Years War when there's a controversy as to what the laws of the realm actually are, as opposed to the clear variable we're used to (an event), or something along the lines of the War of the Roses, just divorced from specifically English roots so that any dynasty could fit in. Or some more storyline-driven rebellions like the sons of William the Conqueror or the plotting Prince John or the Polish brothers Boleslaw and Zbigniew (where one of them was the older but the other one appeared more legitimate).

Darn, I wish I had the time to do some modding. Anyway, brilliant stuff.

Oh, and for the record, you could still have real longboats in "vanilla". While it's nothing the caliber of the Mongols or even the previous Viking raids, they still sort of continued up to about 12th century. I suppose especially any non-Christian Viking rulers would be eager to go on a plunder spree from time to time (enraging the Christian neighbours and/or making a crusade more likely to happen against them). A peaceful conversion attempt also could take place to get them off the idea.
 

Sam L

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I'm in the middle of a game right now. Can I buy and turn this DLC on and will it work mid game?

Year is 1198 and I'm about to form Empire of Hispania. Bring it, Aztecs! :angry:
 

Ruwaard

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@ NewbieOne: though I can see that some like this crazy/funny (depending on point of view) DLC (I don't:)), I wouldn't call it alternate history. A game without this dlc is alternate history after you press start and play; whereas the premise of this DLC is really pushing it in terms of alternate history, in terms of that genre, it's in the ASB (Alien Space Bats) category (so rather fantastical, even by alternate history standards;)). OTOH if you like this kind of wacky stuff, that doesn't matter:).

Now I do like your suggestion to have a on-and-off-switch to switch between historical and alternative.
 

SaintDaveUK

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I'm in the middle of a game right now. Can I buy and turn this DLC on and will it work mid game?

Year is 1198 and I'm about to form Empire of Hispania. Bring it, Aztecs! :angry:

I think that would work. Turning it OFF midway through would probably cause problems though.
 

liamgamer55

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Speaking of which, and this is not the hidden agenda of the entire post but just a related thing, I would like to suggest--but you probably won't do it anyway--putting the Russian Empire and the Scandinavian de iure empires and a number of other such into a DLC-like format. On and off switch. Historical here, alternative there. If a player feels like going historical, he ticks here. If he feels like going alternative, he goes there.
Really easily done with mods. Tell me exactly what you want (with 10 options if you want) and I'll set it up for you.
 

murlocmancer

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One question: why Aztec invasion only? Where are Mayans?

Mayans aren't Aztecs, they don't even come close to Aztecs - they're totally different people. Aztecs are desert nation, that built its civilization on oases in central Mexico. Mayans are a jungle civilization, which is much older than Aztecs.
Will there be Mayans?

Aztecs are more popular so it would make sesne for them to invade.
 

Tomn_Peng

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I also dislike just how "fantastical" this specific scenario is. Sure, every scenario for this would be fantastical, but they could have at least tried to make it more realistic. If it has to be an invasion from the Americas, they could have made it be a Vinlander invasion...

Just out of curiosity, what exactly makes a Vinlander invasion "more realistic" than an Aztec invasion? They both seem equally unlikely to my eye. On a related note, I don't know about you, but seeing the Almohads come to power in North Africa isn't really a rare event in my games, and it happens completely naturally.

Will also note that the FAQ on this DLC already answered one concern you have - simply put, the DLC uses scripters and artists, primarily. Gameplay changes like theocracies and pagans and such take programmers, and as such it is entirely possible for a company to work on both "serious" DLC and "joke" DLC at the same time. Therefore, it's only really a waste of resources if you really, really wanted something that it takes an artist or scripter to pull out.
 

TheDarkMaster

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Speaking of which, they did say they were working on something that was previously unplayable in order to make it playable. They said it wasn't Zoroastrianism, and based on other comments/questions it doesn't seem like it will be Jewish, barons, or landless characters. That leaves theocracies, republics, and the various pagan nations. Which will it be, I wonder?
 

Amagaeru

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I got some questions.

Is it possible to turn off mongols so that only aztecs arrives?
When do the aztecs arrives, around 1225 like mongols?
Do they come in 3 possible different random strenght like the mongols?