Hi everyone!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, also known as The Witch-King on the forums. I work as a scripter on the Crusader Kings II team and I will be giving you this weeks' dev diary!

Today we're going to talk about events. You will find that not only do many interesting things happen in India - they are also often different to the things that happen in Europe and the Middle East. When expanding the game east into Asia, one of the things we wanted to do was to properly give that feeling of being on a new continent, in a different part of the world. New lands, new events - not in Kansas anymore (more close to Karnataka, in fact).

Obviously we've worked hard to provide a different environment and flavor through things such as the mechanics surrounding the new religions etc, but an important part of Crusader Kings II has always been the various random events than occur, and we have a bunch of new ones for India. The many new events include several longer chains of linked events, of the kind that tells smaller stories within the grander story of your dynasty. We also have a number of minor random events as well as events connected to the new feast and hunt decisions.



Decisions, yes... we are adding a number of new decisions specific to India. For one, there are the religious conversion decisions mentioned in a previous dev diary, but you will also be able to convert to the religion of a spouse under certain conditions, just like in other parts of the world. Hindu characters will also be allowed to choose their personal patron deity, it's a choice that in some cases may open up interesting options. The Indian cultural decisions include the traditional autumn feast Diwali (or the Kali Puja for those so inclined), with associated events. There is also the tiger hunt, which is a social occasion as well as a possibility for display of martial prowess.

Oh, and the gurus of course. You may invite a guru to reside at your court if you are prepared to risk getting some good advice. And strange yogis may appear when you least expect and have interesting things to say.



As far as the things you do see, we've put in a lot of work, but there has also been a lot of "invisible" work with this expansion. One thing we've had to do, for example, is go through all the events in the game and adapt triggers to make sure that things which shouldn't happen in India don't. It's a completely different world in the east, so there are a number of things that should definitely not appear there.
Well, that's what I had to say about events and decisions right now. The screenshots give a few illustrations of the kind of things you can expect (note that it's still early days for graphics so the event pictures, portaits and unit models are not the final ones).

 

[Wuddel]

Will there be some new event pictures?

 

[User29]

Will there be some new event pictures?

yes, they just aren't all ready yet.

 

[Ziggy_Dust]

Strange yogis, huh?

 

[Will Steel]

Looks very nice so far. I hope 'Tiger Hunt' is not the only tournament for Indian characters.

I'd say, Indians have a lot of martial tournaments you guys can use in development. India had frequent tournaments, a series where participants go from 'Dhanur Vidya' (archery) competition, 'Khadga Vidya (swordfighting) competition, the 'Ashwarohana' competitions or horseback-fighting competitions, and then you have the 'Gajarohana' competitions - the elephant fighting competition. The one who won all these was the overall champion, IF he managed to take part in all of 'em.

There is also 'Malla Yuddha' or unarmed wrestling. It was common among peasant participants, and had it's own usual official tournament. Nobility usually took it as a sport, so it could be included in events for learning martial attribute.

For South-Indian rulers (Dravidian culture group area, in CK2 terms), you have Kalariyapat fighting.

 

[anomanderus]

Could we get something extra please, screenshot of something new. As many have said, dev diary was quite underwhelming (If it had had some new graphics, people would been happy i'm sure).

Would love to hear about East Africa or see a screenshot, even if "work in progress".

I think ROI is going to be a major expansion like TOG, so the reason why this dev diary is so scant is because they need to save features for diaries for the coming month(s?)

We'll eventually get to see Africa

 

[Damarrocarion]

I think ROI is going to be a major expansion like TOG, so the reason why this dev diary is so scant is because they need to save features for diaries for the coming month(s?)

We'll eventually get to see Africa

Isn't RoI coming out in like a month? So we will have 3-4 dev diaries before it. I mean, compare Old Gods Diary 3 with Roi 3 and you can see the difference

 

[MarkS00N]

I think the next dev-diary would actually talked about the art (which is missing so far)...
Though if they still aren't ready for next week, then I guess they'll feature the East Africa rework...

About the number of dev-diary we'll get, I think we'll get at least two more (with four at most)...
And about the lackluster of the current dev-diary content, I think it mostly related to the unfinished art which related to the events...
I don't think they'll show us more though, and perhaps for the better as it will ensure most of it become a surprise for us...

Oh, and if the dev still take question, while I already have another question earlier, I actually have another one:
If Buddhist and Jains get its own branches, then would there be heresy for these religion?
I take that the previous notion of 'no heresy' was meant to indicate all of indian religion would have similar features to hindu's patron god and none would get branches, but because that isn't the case, does it means that only Hindu has no heresy?

 

[Haldan]

True, but I am quite sure Paradox is legally bound to make at least one Indiana Jones reference under the Swedish cheesiness act.

Possessed events maybe?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Oh, and if the dev still take question, while I already have another question earlier, I actually have another one:
If Buddhist and Jains get its own branches, then would there be heresy for these religion?
I take that the previous notion of 'no heresy' was meant to indicate all of indian religion would have similar features to hindu's patron god and none would get branches, but because that isn't the case, does it means that only Hindu has no heresy?

I believe in the previous dev diaries the devs said the Indian religions won't have heresies, though I'm not 100% sure.

EDIT: Yup, they said no heresies in the second dev diary.

The general idea with all three Indian religions is that they are pluralistic and tolerant, especially toward each other. Thus, none of them have any heresies to worry about.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Possessed events maybe?

Most likely some event chain about searching for mysterious stones which also features rope bridge and crocodiles

 

[gorillacakes]

Most likely some event chain about searching for mysterious stones which also features rope bridge and crocodiles

Or if you switch patron Dieties as a Hindu the tab will say "You betrayed Shiva!"

 

[antigravitycat]

Really looking forward to this, especially how you are going to implement the different religions. And as a Buddhist I am of course looking at the details of how it is represented in the game.
In the PC Gamer article on Rajas of India I read the following: "the Buddhist belief system also introduces reincarnation". If you are going to do so, please consider that this is a controversial topic. Even among Buddhists there is sometimes confusion about what rebirth really is.

In general it is very important to clarify that rebirth is not reincarnation. For Buddhists you would speak of rebirth. For Hindus you would speak of reincarnation, where a person is reborn.

Let me use an explaination given by Bhikkhu Bodhi, a famous Theravada monk:

...Buddhism and Hinduism share the concept of rebirth, the Buddhist concept differs in details from the Hindu doctrine. The doctrine of rebirth as understood in Hinduism involves a permanent soul, a conscious entity which transmigrates from one body to another. The soul inhabits a given body and at death, the soul casts that body off and goes on to assume another body. The famous Hindu classic, the Bhagavad Gita, compares this to a man who might take off one suit of clothing and put on another. The man remains the same but the suits of clothing are different. In the same way the soul remains the same but the psycho-physical organism it takes up differs from life to life.

The Buddhist term for rebirth in Pali is "punabbhava" which means "again existence". Buddhism sees rebirth not as the transmigration of a conscious entity but as the repeated occurrence of the process of existence. There is a continuity, a transmission of influence, a causal connection between one life and another. But there is no soul, no permanent entity which transmigrates from one life to another.

And I have some more questions:

Will there be South/North Indian music in the expansion or will there be an extra DLC?

Will the expansion feature Indian martial arts that came from India and influenced the asian martial arts? Will there be reference to Buddhists - thinking of Batuo, Shaolin and Bodhidharma who brought the Indian martial arts to Asia - or is that content for the next expansion?

Will there be special emphasis on the importance of monasticism in Buddhism? Thinking of monasteries also as centers of knowledge and learning.

Will there be enlightened buddhist monks? Or those who have by training of meditation and the Dhamma abandoned the defilements? In CK2 terms this would mean they get rid of the red sins traits (like greedy, lustful, wroth, envious, proud, slothful, etc.).

 

[vyshan]

I would love the indian martial arts available, especailly the southern one; which uses weapons.
I wonder if Indian classical and temple dancing will be mentioned at all?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Really looking forward to this, especially how you are going to implement the different religions. And as a Buddhist I am of course looking at the details of how it is represented in the game.
In the PC Gamer article on Rajas of India I read the following: "the Buddhist belief system also introduces reincarnation". If you are going to do so, please consider that this is a controversial topic. Even among Buddhists there is sometimes confusion about what rebirth really is.

In general it is very important to clarify that rebirth is not reincarnation. For Buddhists you would speak of rebirth. For Hindus you would speak of reincarnation, where a person is reborn.

This was discussed in another thread, but I think - and I say this as a Bddhist myself - that in the context of CKII the distinction between reincarnation and rebirth is not that relevant. CKII is a game about more worldly, mundane activities, not a game about deep theological differences - no one plays CKII because of the theological arguments between the Miaphysites, Orthodox, and Monophysites (actually it's funny the Monophysite pope is the Coptic pope, because the Copts in real life don't consider themselves monophysite to my knowledge). Now, yes, the devs could in theory do the reincarnation event chain twice, and replace the text with rebirth for the Buddhist version but that is unnecessary extra work, in my opinion, when they could be doing other things.

In my experience, anyways, Buddhists use the two words interchangeably in everyday discourse. You say "in my past life I think I was so and so" or "in your next life you'll be so and so" and everyone gets the idea.

Anyhow as a Buddhist I'm interested in what the devs will be coming up for them, but as another user mentioned previously the fact that the devs gave the Buddhists a somewhat unimaginative tech bonus suggests they may have had a difficult time thinking of interesting stuff for the Buddhists (in the Indian context, maybe), and the fact that Buddhism was on the decline in CKII's era - ie less and less rulers adhering to it - means Buddhism probably isn't as high a priority for the devs as the two other religions.

 

[Kara-Khan]

Hi everybody! This is my first time posting here on paradox forums so forgive me If I make any errors.
But here is my topic.

It would be extremely artificial to divide Buddhism to three branches during era of Rajas of India. Even nowadays there isn't clear distinction between Mahayana and Vajrayana. Some westerners say that Vajrayana is different because it uses dharanis and mantras(magic recitations) and has greater emphasis on esoteric knowledge than Mahayana and uses so called "tantric" practises. Mahayana also uses mantras and dharanis and has strictly esoterical teachings that are only revealed from teacher to student. Aldo making divide between Mahayana and Vajrayana would be extremely artificial during the time of Pala Empire. All the great buddhist scholastics of Pala era were both vajrayanists and mahayanists in other words teaching exoteric and esoteric teachings. if you don't believe check Atisha Dipamkara, Tilopa or Padmasambhava articles on wikipedia and you can see that these Buddhist philosophers who taught during Pala era did not make any divide between Mahayana and Vajrayana. Therefore if Paradox would put into Rajas of India that some people are Mahayana and some people Vajrayana it would be extremely incorrect view of Asian history that rises from misconceptions made by British and German historians during nineteenth century. People like Rhys Davies or Max Muller.

Even great Chinese monk Xuan Xang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang) says that during his travels in India Buddhist sects did share their teaching faculties, universities and temples with each other. And nobody was talking about schools like Vajrayana, Mahayana and Theravada. But Sautrantika, Sarvastivada, Mahasamghika etc.

Im not saying that in those time there wasn't any differences between Buddhist schools. Yes there was and still is. But those divides weren't as extreme in ancient India as example Shia-Sunni divide and conflict in Middle East. They were small and philosophical and not important for general public of that era.

Good example would be two groups of theorical physicists who believe in same basic laws physics but think that other does not interpret them in right way and instead of starting to kill each other and their family they start to debate and try many ways to influence each others point of view in peaceful ways. But for general public that matter is not very important. Lets change those groups of scientists with groups of monks with different stances on metaphysical questions and TA-DAA thats how the sectarian differences worked during time of Indian buddhism.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Lets take guesses on what will be in todays Dev Diary:

I think we will finally see some Indian graphics. However, since previous ones have been bit "content light", I assume trend continues. We might see a word about Nestorianism and some words about decadence overhaul. And elephants

 

[gorillacakes]

Lets take guesses on what will be in todays Dev Diary:

I think we will finally see some Indian graphics. However, since previous ones have been bit "content light", I assume trend continues. We might see a word about Nestorianism and some words about decadence overhaul. And elephants

It would be nice to see some graphics but I don't think we will see any just yet (although please prove me wrong pdx!). I don't think we will see much of Nestorianism either, the religion dev diary would have been the place for it. I guess they will talk about how they fixed the AI problem with the Red Sea in some form today.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Possible.

I would just love some screenshots where one could investigate things and spot things which are not clearly pointed out (easter eggs). Like, for example, there was de-jure map showing duchies and it seemed Merv was moved from it's current location. Of course this probably has severe effect on House Karen games in future. I mean, dev diary 3 was fairly content light and there was even nothing interesting to dig up from screenshots.

 

[gorillacakes]

Possible.

I would just love some screenshots where one could investigate things and spot things which are not clearly pointed out (easter eggs). Like, for example, there was de-jure map showing duchies and it seemed Merv was moved from it's current location. Of course this probably has severe effect on House Karen games in future. I mean, dev diary 3 was fairly content light and there was even nothing interesting to dig up from screenshots.

Yeah Merv is Dev Diary 2 I think. But Doomdark had mentioned in number 1 that they were finally fixing the Provinces around the Caspian and Aral sea to more historical layouts. That is what the movement of Merv represents.

A lot of eastern regions were crammed together in vanilla release out Persia way. Samanids are a perfect example, the kingdom is tiny compared to what it was historically. The Umbra Spherae mod does a better job addressing the problem, as will this DLC by the looks of it in Dev Diary 1. It will be a lot harder for the Karen for sure!

Very much interested to see how the new ui and shields will be represented but I doubt we will see any faces or religious icons until we are well into March. I believe Paradox South said they are not working on any facepacks at the moment. So I am guessing that means they aren't ready to get around to it or they outsourced?

 

[Damarrocarion]

A lot of eastern regions were crammed together in vanilla release out Persia way. Samanids are a perfect example, the kingdom is tiny compared to what it was historically. The Umbra Spherae mod does a better job addressing the problem, as will this DLC by the looks of it in Dev Diary 1. It will be a lot harder for the Karen for sure!

Based on historical map, I do not think they will get that much more territory. After all, historically their reach peaked later than ToG start. So for human player, defeating Samanids should still be quite doable with even troops. At worst, Karen can try to go for Turkestan at the start. If you grab Khiva, it should still be fairly easy going from there I think. Of course, de-jure Khiva might get expanded slightly so usurping crown is not that easy.