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New week, new dev diary! This time, I am going to talk of the new religions and their intricacies. As I mentioned last week, there is now a new Indian religion group with three religions; Hindu, Buddhist and Jain. What you get when you buy Rajas of India is the ability to play as a ruler of one of these religions, with all the associated mechanics.

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Empires.png

The general idea with all three Indian religions is that they are pluralistic and tolerant, especially toward each other. Thus, none of them have any heresies to worry about. Instead, low religion authority will cause various negative events to fire, much in the same way that having negative money does. This tolerance is also reflected in province revolt risk and vassals' opinions of their lieges. Instead of heresies, characters may belong to an accepted branch of their religion. Thus, for example, a Hindu can be a Shaivist, Shaktist or one of several other denominations. This is a character trait. It is also possible to pick a specific patron god for various bonuses.

Characters of all three religions can take one wife only, but are allowed concubines, like pagans and Zoroastrians. Another great thing about the Indian religions is that they allow the designation of a favorite child as heir, regardless of the specific succession law (though abiding by the gender preference law, of course.) Lastly, and quite importantly, it's possible for players to switch between the three Indian religions (tentatively, once per lifetime at a steep Piety cost) in order to take advantage of their special mechanics when needed. Right, so those are most of the major commonalities. Of course, there are also some similarities in the kinds of events that characters of all three religions tend to get (but I'm saving that for a later dev diary!)

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Kingdoms.png

Hinduism is the most warlike of the three; Hindu rulers have access to the normal Holy War casus belli. In addition, they are allowed to raid neighboring provinces of non-Indian religions. Hindus, however, also need to deal with the caste system. All Hindus can be born into one of the three castes that we represent in the game; Brahmin, Kshatriya, or Vaishya. This is represented as a character trait. Priests are expected to be Brahmins, feudal rulers Kshatriyas and burghers Vaishyas. Marrying into the wrong caste - or worse - being the wrong caste, gives serious opinion penalties with other Hindus. Children born to mixed caste parents will get the lower of the two. Characters with no caste at all are the lowest of all - the untouchables. This system limits your marriage options and tends to cause strife in your realm. It is possible to get a higher caste trait through a special decision, but it is hard and costly.

Buddhists are represented as the most philosophically minded of the Indian religions. (While perhaps not entirely fair, they were historically known for their huge universities and libraries.) They don't have to worry about caste, but rulers who ever plan to switch to Hinduism might still want to take heed of it. Buddhists cannot raid and their Holy War CB is less powerful (currently, counties instead of duchies), but they do get a great bonus to Learning, meaning that they will have unmatched long-term technological progress - if they can survive...

Finally, we have Jainism, which is probably the most peaceful religion on the planet. For Jains, the concept of Ahimsa - non-violence - is the cornerstone of their faith. Thus, Jains do not have any kind of Holy War CB, and violent acts have more serious repercussions on Piety (called Karma for the Indian religions) and opinions. Too limiting? Perhaps, but there are some serious benefits as well; Jains can have much bigger demesnes, get a flat opinion bonus from their vassals, and basically don't have to worry about provincial revolts (though the effect is less on characters and provinces of non-Indian faiths.)

That's a brief summary of the new mechanics, but I should mention that although the information I've outlined above is true in the current build, it might change quite a lot for balance reasons. For example, it's rather tricky to make the three Indian religions equally beneficial, only suitable for different circumstances and play styles.

ck2_RoI_dd_02_De_Jure_Duchies.png

That's all for now. Until next week, folks!

(Regrettably, I have no relevant screenshots for you this time since a lot of the graphics is still missing. The ones I do have are of the de jure map modes in India, as promised.)
 

Trin Tragula

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Renaming it to Punjab or (more historically appropriate) Hindustan would be much more accurate. Actually, Punjab would be the most geographically accurate, Punjab literally means "Land of Seven Rivers", which is what that Empire would actually be

Eh, Punjab would be a lot worse in my opinion. Rajasthan empire on that map incorporates a lot more than five rivers (the Ganges and the Yamuna for instance).
If you'd have Punjab because of it's literal meaning how come you'd reject Rajasthan which would translate roughly as "Land of Kings"?

While I agree the names might not be ideal 3 empires in India seems like it might work (I can think of times when all three would exist).
 
Last edited:

NoUsernamesHere

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Moddable yes. But please not in vanilla. European Pagans (beside Hellenic) didn't work like that. They never chose a single deity.

I think it's a bit odd to make such a claim, especially considering that every descendant of Indo-European polytheism for which we have extensive documentation (Greek, Roman, and Hinduism) includes a concept of favoritism for a particular god or gods and include the formation of god-specific cults. Is it really such a stretch to assume that this concept might stem from the root religious framework; that is to say, that it would be a common trait amongst all indo-european polytheistic religions in-game (meaning Norse, Slavic, and Baltic)? Furthermore, there are attestations to such concepts being present in (at least) Germanic society. One example is Germania by Tacitus in which he describes 1st century AD Germanic society (which, mind you, would be extremely similar to medieval Norse society, particularly in the religious aspect).

9. Of the gods, Mercury [62] is the principal object of their adoration; whom, on certain days, [63] they think it lawful to propitiate even with human victims. To Hercules and Mars [64] they offer the animals usually allotted for sacrifice.
Here Tacitus is equating Germanic gods with Roman gods, a common practice. Mercury is taken to mean Odin, Hercules and Mars, IIRC, are Thor and Tyr respectively.
The neighboring Reudigni, [211] and the Avions, [212] Angli, [213] Varini, Eudoses, Suardones, and Nuithones, [214] are defended by rivers or forests. Nothing remarkable occurs in any of these; except that they unite in the worship of Hertha, [215] or Mother Earth;
[254] On the right shore of the Suevic sea [255] dwell the tribes of the Aestii, [256] whose dress and customs are the same with those of the Suevi, but their language more resembles the British. [257] They worship the mother of the gods; [258] and as the symbol of their superstition, they carry about them the figures of wild boars.
Keep in mind that the Aestii might have actually been a Baltic tribe, but this just helps make my point.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/europe/l/bl_text_Tacitus_Germania.htm
 

Chevaresqye

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The new religions sound boring to me. But on the bright side, I hope their simplicity can increase the moddability of religious system. I want to create a religion that includes features of all religion.
 

DominusNovus

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Any chance of something along the lines of a titular Baktria title if you're a Latin or Byzantine group leader who conquers Baktria?

Quite possibly the cultural name for a Greek Afghanistan.
 

Thingy Person

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March 21, I believe is what was said. Though it might fall back. (Note they said in the diary they don't even have graphics for some things yet)
I remember seeing a TOG dev diary with a placeholder UI so that's probably normal. You'll want the coding to be completely worked out before you get your gfx people to make the frontend, lest you have to change things around later and invalidate their work...
 

Me_

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I remember seeing a TOG dev diary with a placeholder UI so that's probably normal. You'll want the coding to be completely worked out before you get your gfx people to make the frontend, lest you have to change things around later and invalidate their work...
I remember a DLC they released without unique interface elements for a certain group (it still isn't fully fixed). People complained a lot.
 

Me_

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But this groupe wasn't the main focus of the DLC...
Say that to the people who flooded the forum with complaints. Plus not being the focus is no excuse for being unfinished. If you can't finish something, then don't add it at all, at least you won't disappoint people with your half-product. Zoroastrians weren't the focus either, but they were done properly anyway.
 

Thure

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Say that to the people who flooded the forum with complaints. Plus not being the focus is no excuse for being unfinished. If you can't finish something, then don't add it at all, at least you won't disappoint people with your half-product. Zoroastrians weren't the focus either, but they were done properly anyway.

But you would disappoint people for not adding it. There will allways people who are disappointed by something.
 

soda7777777

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Awesome.

So what happens if a Muslim conquers India?
 

Me_

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cybrxkhan

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Will you be able to abolish the caste system if you play as Hindus?
Won't happen given how important it is even today. That's like saying abolishing baptism as a Christian.
 

Tempestra

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I am well aware of what european Polytheism was and is like; as I am a Gaelic Polytheist.

Man, I thought we were past this. Your religion may be - and this is being charitable - inspired by the pre-christian Brythonic religions, but I don't think that means that you should be considered an authority on the way they work. The modern "pagan" religious groups, be they Celtic, Norse, Slavic or Hellenic, have no continuity with the pre-christian practices.
 

Haldan

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India will be no match for my Zoroastrian Mongol Empire!