Winter is here and the ice-fear is very cold (now there's an obscure reference for you). For today's diary, I thought that we might immerse ourselves in medieval jurisprudence. In practice, the laws function in much the same way as in Rome: Vae Victis, but in Crusader Kings II there are two different types of law; one that applies to a character's actual demesne (de facto, or demesne laws) and one that applies to everyone within an ancient traditional kingdom (de jure, or kingdom laws.) Demesne laws cover things like succession, tax levels and how the council operates. Any playable character can fiddle around with his own demesne laws. Kingdom laws cover the freedoms, rights and obligations of burghers, nobles, clergy and peasants. Only the holder of a Kingdom title is allowed to change these laws, and they will affect the whole geographical kingdom, regardless of whether a province is actually under its de facto control. (Like in Crusader Kings, de jure duchies and kingdoms are static, geographical entities that never change.)

Therefore, a player who is, for example, king of Norway and Denmark must change de jure laws separately per kingdom. To make things even more interesting, succession at the kingdom level (and only at the kingdom level) is also handled per kingdom, so Norway might be an elective monarchy while Denmark has primogeniture. Thus, the Norwegian dukes might elect another successor to the throne of Norway than the oldest son of the current king, which would split the kingdoms apart...
Speaking of succession laws, they are slightly different from the ones in Crusader Kings. In Crusader Kings II, most succession laws can be either cognatic or agnatic (that choice is a separate law.) These are the succession laws of CKII:

  • Seniority (oldest man in the dynasty succeeds)
  • Primogeniture (oldest son succeeds)
  • Elective (the current king and the dukes each nominate a successor)
  • Gavelkind (all titles are divided among the sons of the ruler)
  • Turkish (a succession crisis is almost guaranteed, but the vassals are content)
  • Republican (a random vassal or courtier succeeds; used for republics, etc)
  • Catholic Bishopric (the liege lord can override the Pope's choice by nominating his own successor)

That's all for now. The game is still a very long way from being finished, but I can at least offer you this screenshot of the current Law interface (though bear in mind that it is still very much subject to change.) In the screenshot, the king stands to inherit the duchy, because the young duke has no legal heir. "Pretenders" are the second and third characters in the line of succession.


Diary003_01.jpg


Until next time, I bid you a very merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

Henrik Fåhraeus, Associate Producer and CKII Project Lead
 
Last edited:

RedRooster81

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will elective work in a way like as described in the sengoku civil war DD?

Kings Peace might mean you intervene in inter-realm wars automatically on the side of the defender instead of being given the choice?

Monarchs are elected by their direct vassals, with the reigning monarch able to nominate a candidate. It's not based on landholding as in CK1. It sounds like it will be closer to EU3, where relations are much more important and maybe other factors. So it is not the biggest that will prevail necessarily, and if you do not succeed in reelection for your dynasty, you keep your ducal title(s) and other titles.
 

Nick B II

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will elective work in a way like as described in the sengoku civil war DD?

Kings Peace might mean you intervene in inter-realm wars automatically on the side of the defender instead of being given the choice?

No idea about Sengoku. Don't really care, either.

But in CK2 what'll happen is this:

1) While alive you select an heir.

2) When you die all your Dukes nominate a candidate. Your heir is also a candidate.

3) There's an election. The Dukes vote.

For Dukes with electoral law the Counts will nominate/vote, for Counts it'll be Barons.

Nick
 

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No idea about Sengoku. Don't really care, either.

But in CK2 what'll happen is this:

1) While alive you select an heir.

2) When you die all your Dukes nominate a candidate. Your heir is also a candidate.

3) There's an election. The Dukes vote.

For Dukes with electoral law the Counts will nominate/vote, for Counts it'll be Barons.

Nick


Sengoku's got CKII as its foundation so its DDs are good to keep an eye on for this as well. Basically its saying just what you said but with everyone who gets a vote getting a claim and get to go to war over it. Which if like me yourve been hoping this CK will be able to do like the Anarchy is a thing to hope for.
 

nzag

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"the ice-fear is very cold" coming from someone named "Doomdark"

The Watchwords Of Midnight Are Revealed.

I apologize for the off topic; some good memories came back from a long time ago.
 

K W

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Sorry for resurrecting the thread, but I haven't found an answer to my question and don't want to create a new thread for it, so I'm just asking here.

Doomdark stated that in CK II semi-salic primogeniture equals cognatic primogeniture. However, I've also read that under the cognatic primogeniture of CK II, female characters will be able to inherit -- which does not equal the semi-salic primogeniture from CK I exactly, where women were not able to inherit themselves, but only to trace inheritance so that their sons could inherit. CK II is obviously replacing the semi-salic primogeniture with male-preference primogeniture. Is the original semi-salic mechanism of CK I reflected in the game under a different name? If not, is it possible to mod it in?
 

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Sorry for resurrecting the thread, but I haven't found an answer to my question and don't want to create a new thread for it, so I'm just asking here.

Doomdark stated that in CK II semi-salic primogeniture equals cognatic primogeniture. However, I've also read that under the cognatic primogeniture of CK II, female characters will be able to inherit -- which does not equal the semi-salic primogeniture from CK I exactly, where women were not able to inherit themselves, but only to trace inheritance so that their sons could inherit. CK II is obviously replacing the semi-salic primogeniture with male-preference primogeniture. Is the original semi-salic mechanism of CK I reflected in the game under a different name? If not, is it possible to mod it in?

Semi salic makes you loose the game if inheritance is traced through female so it's not a big lost, altough more laws will be cool and I hope inheritance laws can be more easily modded than in CK1.
 

K W

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Semi salic makes you loose the game if inheritance is traced through female so it's not a big lost, altough more laws will be cool and I hope inheritance laws can be more easily modded than in CK1.

Semi-salic primogeniture does not necessarily mean losing the game when you marry your daughters with a member of your dynasty.
 

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CK II is obviously replacing the semi-salic primogeniture with male-preference primogeniture. Is the original semi-salic mechanism of CK I reflected in the game under a different name? If not, is it possible to mod it in?

Not really. But, and this is important, the law that lets women inherit lets them inherit only if there are no valid male heirs. But they still get claims, which means they can pass them to their children, which means you can marry the daughter of King Mark the Forgettable and pass along a claim on the throne to your son. This isn't exactly like semi-salic, but it allows for dynastic problems that you historically had relating to such laws.

EDIT: I have no idea how to mod in inheritance laws, so it might be possible to add.
 

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Not really. But, and this is important, the law that lets women inherit lets them inherit only if there are no valid male heirs. But they still get claims, which means they can pass them to their children, which means you can marry the daughter of King Mark the Forgettable and pass along a claim on the throne to your son. This isn't exactly like semi-salic, but it allows for dynastic problems that you historically had relating to such laws.

EDIT: I have no idea how to mod in inheritance laws, so it might be possible to add.

I really hope that there is at least the possibility to mod it in. I always liked Semi-Salic Primogeniture in CK I.
 

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EDIT: I have no idea how to mod in inheritance laws, so it might be possible to add.

You cant mod inheritance laws, the devs have said, you can only mod the decisions/events that change them. Like in EURome, you cant mod the law but you change how it comes into effect but the laws themselves are hardcoded. But hopefully once the game is out and the devs have free time they might take requests for additional laws to be added in with patches for modders to use
 

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You cant mod inheritance laws, the devs have said, you can only mod the decisions/events that change them. Like in EURome, you cant mod the law but you change how it comes into effect but the laws themselves are hardcoded. But hopefully once the game is out and the devs have free time they might take requests for additional laws to be added in with patches for modders to use

So it even isn't possible to add a new law, no matter how hard that actually may be?