Folks, prepare yourself for another monologue by yours truly!

Last time, I promised to talk about Crusader Pandas, but that would be silly, so I won't. Instead, I'll inform you about the workings of the Council. Just like in Crusader Kings, the Council consists of five characters who serve as your advisers; the Chancellor, Steward, Marshal, Spymaster and Lord Spiritual. Their primary attribute is added to your own for purposes of government. (E.g. the Diplomacy skill is the primary attribute of the Chancellor.) To make it more balanced, characters now have an additional attribute called Learning, which is the primary attribute of the Lord Spiritual. Also unlike Crusader Kings, you can appoint your direct landed vassals to your council, not just your courtiers. Women can normally not serve as councillors, although the spouse and mother of the ruler can be Spymaster.

The main new Council related feature in Crusader Kings II, however, is the ability to send your councillors on various jobs (three per councillor) out in the counties. Many of these jobs are very powerful if used correctly. The chance of a good outcome is dependent on their skill. To give some examples:

Head Local Inquisition (Lord Spiritual):
The Lord Spiritual converts a province or local character to his religion.

Train Troops (Marshal):
The levies replenish faster and can grow beyond their normal max size.

Fabricate Claims (Chancellor):
Chance that you get a claim on a local title.

Oversee Construction (Steward):
The build time of improvements and new holdings is much reduced.

Study Technology (Spymaster):
Chance that a tech level spreads to your capital.





Ponder this until the next dev diary.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

Excellent. I'll look forward to a game where I decide to re-paganise lands by hiring a pagan lord spiritual.

Didn't know pagans were that organized. Pagan bishops will be weird, very weird. Julian the apostate tried it though, it failed.
Plus, you can't play with pagans.

 

[Captain Gars]

why not call it that then?

For the same reason we don't call the marshal "military advisor" or the chancellor "diplomatic advisor".

 

[vadermath]

...for the same reason the Marshall isn't named "Army Dude"? It sounds more awesome this way, plus that was the official title during the period.

Edit: HOOOOOLY. I got ninja'd, and we wrote basically the same post! I'll treasure this moment always XD

 

[Slaxl]

Didn't know pagans were that organized. Pagan bishops will be weird, very weird. Julian the apostate tried it though, it failed.
Plus, you can't play with pagans.

No I know, but I figured it might be interesting if I could turn a whole land pagan, then I'd be the only Christian left, then I could abandon the land so a whole kingdom suddenly becomes pagan. I haven't thought it through, I realise that.

 

[Zan Thrax]

Do the numbers next to the council portraits represent their relation to the liege? If so, I think Scotland may be in for some turmoil when the Chancellor and Spymaster start plotting against their king.

 

[Captain Gars]

Do the numbers next to the council portraits represent their relation to the liege? If so, I think Scotland may be in for some turmoil when the Chancellor and Spymaster start plotting against their king.

Yes, that's their relation to their liege.

 

[Kuipy]

How easy is it to swap advisors ? Can you go through a dozen of them in a short time ? Will a fired advisor resent you ?

 

[unmerged(74620)]

Will characters receive any bonuses being on the council, such as, monthly prestige, loyalty, or a paycheck?

As well as, will they get mad if they are replaced, along with lots of fun events and plots that follow?

 

[Delta107]

Hello! In my opinion its silly to have an option to convert a province... Now we are talking about converting masses of people which is neither historical nor realistically(except perhaps in the case of pagan religions) unless the lord spiritual will sit on the province say from 1100-1399. And unless of course you will use a system of gradual conversions similar to MM. Otherwise its just GREAT and I mean GREAT! Also how about more mission types for the council members?

 

[3inar]

In regard to your vassals being able to be chanselor, marshal etc. does this meen that if you have a lige you may become his marshal for example?

 

[Ccbasin]

Doomdark or other devs, I see the Marshal raising troops in the second pic of the first post. I also see possible outcomes that could happen there as well.

So, does sending Council members out on their jobs have both bad and good outcomes related to how they have done for the year?? I see in the second pic, Noble Interferes, could reduce your recruitment rate to roughly half the base rate and I was just curious if I was reading that right.

 

[vwclaymore]

In regard to your vassals being able to be chanselor, marshal etc. does this meen that if you have a lige you may become his marshal for example?

I'm pretty sure they confirmed this somewhere else (can't remember where at this point).

 

[Nuril]

Didn't know pagans were that organized. Pagan bishops will be weird, very weird. Julian the apostate tried it though, it failed.
Plus, you can't play with pagans.

Please stop conflating them all into a big "Pagan" bucket. Julian has nothing to do with Scandinavia. He was trying to unite thousands of different traditional religions and cults into one monolithic force to be able to stand up to Christianity. His main failing comes from not being able to pull off the immensely difficult task of tying together religions that don't really have much to do with eachother into one institution which none of them were that interested in becoming (..and of course dying very early into his reign. Maybe he would've found a way eventually, but it was certainly a much greater task than for any Scandinavian in his position).

The Germanic pantheon was much more unified (kept mostly Germanic and wasn't the same Multicultural multi-national culture the Romans were. Nor were they as literate, so ideas didn't spread easily) as far as Pantheons go. The Aesir and Vanir Gods had gone from being worshipped seperately to being accepted as one fused group. It wasn't trending towards being split up, it was growing more centralized, with established High Temples that were more revered than others and so forth. It wasn't nearly at the Christian level, but it isn't that strange to take a Religious Advisor for a King. There was hardly seperation of Church and State. It wouldn't be Localized as a "Bishop" in the game, obviously, more likely something like "Hofgoði" (Temple Priest. Also played a political role.).

 

[Sotof]

You make me want to make a pagan Germania Nuril.

 

[takedown47]

you cant select a pagan realm from the main menu i don't believe but if start in 1066 as a christian king of sweden and then you die and your heir is a norse pagan then yes you might be abe to play as a pagan realm if you can appoint a norse lord spirtual to convert the masses back to old ways. bring it on i say!

 

[Sotof]

you cant select a pagan realm from the main menu i don't believe but if start in 1066 as a christian king of sweden and then you die and your heir is a norse pagan then yes you might be abe to play as a pagan realm if you can appoint a norse lord spirtual to convert the masses back to old ways. bring it on i say!

Gives me a reason to play Sweden. That or mod it in if possible.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

Didn't know pagans were that organized. Pagan bishops will be weird, very weird. Julian the apostate tried it though, it failed.
Plus, you can't play with pagans.

Even if you can't or won't play other religions, the AI will presumably have that spot and fill it with its own courtiers.

Apparently it won't be too much hassle to rig things so you won't see Sunni bishoprics or Shia episcopates popping up.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

Please stop conflating them all into a big "Pagan" bucket.

I just used the same terminology as the one I was replying to.

with established High Temples that were more revered than others and so forth.

So you say some sites and temples were regarded as being holier? That doesn't make a complex hierarchy nor dogmatic unity, which is almost a contradiction with paganism.

The Germanic pantheon was much more unified

There was almost no paganism in Germany in this timeframe, since your head would have been chopped of if you were. Baltic region is different, and I don't know if they worshipped the germanic gods of old.

to unite thousands of different traditional religions and cults into one monolithic force

Well, pagans in the Roman Empire didn't have denominations. To modern eyes it might appear so, but the ancient peoples would have said it are all different names for the same gods.

There was hardly seperation of Church and State.

Duh, because the very notion of seperating religion from state would have been unthinkable for all peoples from all religions of the world up to 300 years ago. It is just an unnatural construct made up by Rousseau and the likes.

but it isn't that strange to take a Religious Advisor for a King

Adhering to paganism would have given you the priviledge of being decapitated. So yes, it weird for a Christian king to hire a tree-worshipping Pagan who occasionally sacrifices a bull to one of his deities.

Apparently it won't be too much hassle to rig things so you won't see Sunni bishoprics or Shia episcopates popping up.

Islamic clerics, didn't, AFAIK, directly rule nations. Unless a Caliph is a cleric, which I don't think it is. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Nick B II]

It's been asked before, but not answered:
In several videos a realm law allowing female chancellors was visible. This Dev Diary implies there will be no female chancellors.

Has the option of passing that law been removed? If so why?

Nick

 

[Nuril]

I just used the same terminology as the one I was replying to.

I wasn't talking about the terminology of "pagan", even if it is derogatory, I was talking about you conflating a Germanic belief system in the 11th Century to that of a huge collection of early 4th century Mediterranean religions without connecting the two other than "AIN'T CHRISTIAN!". The situations are not similar at all and thus Julian's experiences are not indicative of what experiences a ruler there would have (and note that the only reason you can so definitively say "tried it and failed" is because he died in battle against foreign enemies, so that shows nothing in the end).

So you say some sites and temples were regarded as being holier? That doesn't make a complex hierarchy nor dogmatic unity, which is almost a contradiction with paganism.

..No, the fact that they did not have those large disagreements on the nature of their religion means they had more unity. Obviously. (Edit: Than that of Mediterranean religions, I mean. Most Christian theological disagreements tend to be violent insanity over some minor spelling of a word on Jesus' nature, so that's hardly diverse on that front)

I never said they did have as complex of a hierarchy as Christianity. I explicitly said they didn't. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. You don't play a priest, you'd play a King, which makes you the most powerful authority on the religion when it lacks another candidate for the top of the hierarchy. The Christian rulers never stop fighting with their clergy and kicking eachother when they're down to assert a tiny bit of authority over the other.

There was almost no paganism in Germany in this timeframe, since your head would have been chopped of if you were. Baltic region is different, and I don't know if they worshipped the germanic gods of old.

*Facepalm* The Germanic pantheon is the shared basis for Germanic religion. Germanic does not mean German. You brought the timeline all the way back to friggin' Julian the Apostate. By that time it was still Wotan/Odin and the gang up in all of the North.

Well, pagans in the Roman Empire didn't have denominations. To modern eyes it might appear so, but the ancient peoples would have said it are all different names for the same gods.

THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A "Pagan" RELIGION! They had loads of different religions hailing from all sorts of corners of their Empire, often with no ties to eachother at all, and a myriad of cults and exotic Gods and Goddesses that rose and fell in popularity over the years. You're thinking of the traditional image of "Greco-Roman Polytheism" while discounting the many, many others and even major groups like the Celts.

There was certainly a great deal of trying to detect similarities and identify deities with ones of your own religion, but it rarely makes for a good fit in more ways than merely having the same domains.

(And I don't know how you define "denominations", but the dictionary just says it's a larger size than a sect and "sect" is a VERY common word when talking about Greco-Roman religion, so I'd bet the decently popular Gods/Goddesses all qualify for Denomination status with their Priesthoods/Temples/Followers in that case.)

Duh, because the very notion of seperating religion from state would have been unthinkable for all peoples from all religions of the world up to 300 years ago. It is just an unnatural construct made up by Rousseau and the likes.

Seriously..? SERIOUSLY? You just outright advocated that Churches should control government policy and that not allowing them to oppress others is an "unnatural construct"? Well I guess I can agree that it's certainly not their natural habitat to not be able to do that anymore, but that's a good thing.

(And that was just about how holding religious fiefs or positions doesn't need to be a Christian-only thing. You can have powerful Norse priests and so on just fine.)

Adhering to paganism would have given you the priviledge of being decapitated. So yes, it weird for a Christian king to hire a tree-worshipping Pagan who occasionally sacrifices a bull to one of his deities.

.. ಠ_ಠ

You're thinking of Jupiter again.

But yes, I didn't say it's sensible to have one as a Christian king, I wasn't involved in that discussion. I just objected to you conflating the Greco-Roman non-Christians to the Germanic ones.